Alan Scott: The Green Lantern by Tim Sheridan and Cian Tormey (New Golden Age)

[PrydefulHunts]

So we've got Russian Alan, Russian Jenny, when are we getting Russian Todd?

I have a theory that the Harlequin's Son will be the "Todd" equivalent for Ruby.

Michael Mayne is gay, techinally Alan's stepson, and he was part of that future JSA alongside Ruby. Only downside is that he's not Russian.

[Jon Clark]

I don't really buy that. These characters are fictional concepts that have always changed with the times and had numerous retcons. It's no more "accepting something that isn't true" than Lex Luthor going from mad scientist to an industrialist who murdered his parents or Jason Todd going from a redheaded acrobat to a black-haired street kid or Hal Jordan going from a Korean War vet to a Vietnam vet or whatever else. It's a retcon and a modernization of a character, no different than countless others that have been done and accepted.

Whether you buy it or not is up to you.

But for me the difference is that we were never told Lex the parent killing industrialist was the mad scientist we all read about. The Byrne/Wolfman Luthor wasn't being inserted in Superboy stories as a younger version of the Pre-Crisis Lex. And we aren't being given Dick Grayson as that street kid Jason was then also having the same connection to Haly Circus.

Alan's situation to me is like Geoff Johns deciding that Helena is a present day character. That we are now to edit batman having a daughter (and marriage to Selina) into our past knowledge of Batman ... but assume at the same time that Batman was also having nearly identical adventures. Jason's "Death" happened just as we read it ...except a teenaged Helena Wayne was living in Wayne Manor at this point, Damian still is introduced as Batman's son that Talia raised in secret ... but at the same time Bruce already has a daughter and marraige to Selina and has for years

It's the playing both sides of the argument that drives me nuts. Alan being gay since the 1940's is so much more progressive than his being the straight version ... but you have no reason to worry because he is still the same Alan. Either being gay is a change worth celebratng (in which case it must have some impact on who he is and was) OR Alan was essentially the same guy I read about (in which case his gayness is no more important to his character than whter he was right or left handed). It can't be both.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I have a theory that the Harlequin's Son will be the "Todd" equivalent for Ruby.

Michael Mayne is gay, techinally Alan's stepson, and he was part of that future JSA alongside Ruby. Only downside is that he's not Russian.

Am I the only one who finds it odd and hilarious that we're getting new characters who should be freakin' baby boomers?

[PrydefulHunts]

Am I the only one who finds it odd and hilarious that we're getting new characters who should be freakin' baby boomers?

Haha, I find the concept interesting. The characters just need good writing to make them stand out from their counterparts.

[Refrax5]

Whether you buy it or not is up to you.

But for me the difference is that we were never told Lex the parent killing industrialist was the mad scientist we all read about. The Byrne/Wolfman Luthor wasn't being inserted in Superboy stories as a younger version of the Pre-Crisis Lex. And we aren't being given Dick Grayson as that street kid Jason was then also having the same connection to Haly Circus.

Alan's situation to me is like Geoff Johns deciding that Helena is a present day character. That we are now to edit batman having a daughter (and marriage to Selina) into our past knowledge of Batman ... but assume at the same time that Batman was also having nearly identical adventures. Jason's "Death" happened just as we read it ...except a teenaged Helena Wayne was living in Wayne Manor at this point, Damian still is introduced as Batman's son that Talia raised in secret ... but at the same time Bruce already has a daughter and marraige to Selina and has for years

It's the playing both sides of the argument that drives me nuts. Alan being gay since the 1940's is so much more progressive than his being the straight version ... but you have no reason to worry because he is still the same Alan. Either being gay is a change worth celebratng (in which case it must have some impact on who he is and was) OR Alan was essentially the same guy I read about (in which case his gayness is no more important to his character than whter he was right or left handed). It can't be both.

Again, it isn't exactly the same guy you always read about, since continuity has been altered numerous times since then. Alan wasn't "out" in a lot of the stories we read, so it stands to reason that, on the surface, a lot of those stories happened as we saw them.

It just seems like people nitpicking because they don't like the gay thing. I don't remember too many people being upset when Wally West was suddenly shown to have a dysfunctional family and painful childhood when they'd previously been depicted as fairly Walton-esque. Most of those old Kid Flash stories were still in continuity and referenced, but this big part of Wally's personal life was retroactively different suddenly. It actually led to a lot of great character work and added a lot of depth to his personality and motives to be a superhero. It was all new stuff that still kept most of his history intact.

They retcon stuff all the time in both DC and Marvel. But it's this stuff that causes the most protest for some reason.

I agree that Alan being gay might affect who he is on some level. I think there's a way to write that where it works and is interesting---I think the idea of this all-american, tough-as-nails manly man of the 40s being in the closet has a lot of potential---but this series has essentially replaced who Alan was with this kind of generic character and made the entire story about him being gay. It should be an aspect of the character, but not his defining trait. His core character and personality should remain essentially the same. Loathe as I am to give credit to Johns, he did a commendable job of that in the recent JSA issue.

As for Jason, yes, they retconned Jason's backstory and physical appearance drastically. There was actually a period of overlap where the acrobat version of Jason and the street kid version were appearing at the same time in different books.

[j9ac9k]

Again, it isn't exactly the same guy you always read about, since continuity has been altered numerous times since then. Alan wasn't "out" in a lot of the stories we read, so it stands to reason that, on the surface, a lot of those stories happened as we saw them.

It just seems like people nitpicking because they don't like the gay thing. I don't remember too many people being upset when Wally West was suddenly shown to have a dysfunctional family and painful childhood when they'd previously been depicted as fairly Walton-esque. Most of those old Kid Flash stories were still in continuity and referenced, but this big part of Wally's personal life was retroactively different suddenly. It actually led to a lot of great character work and added a lot of depth to his personality and motives to be a superhero. It was all new stuff that still kept most of his history intact.

They retcon stuff all the time in both DC and Marvel. But it's this stuff that causes the most protest for some reason.

I agree that Alan being gay might affect who he is on some level. I think there's a way to write that where it works and is interesting---I think the idea of this all-american, tough-as-nails manly man of the 40s being in the closet has a lot of potential---but this series has essentially replaced who Alan was with this kind of generic character and made the entire story about him being gay. It should be an aspect of the character, but not his defining trait. His core character and personality should remain essentially the same. Loathe as I am to give credit to Johns, he did a commendable job of that in the recent JSA issue.

As for Jason, yes, they retconned Jason's backstory and physical appearance drastically. There was actually a period of overlap where the acrobat version of Jason and the street kid version were appearing at the same time in different books.

A bunch of people have explained their issues with this series aside from Alan being gay. While it wasn't my experience, criticism for this mini doesn't just boil down to not liking Alan being gay. Most people on this forum especially, come across to me as capable of articulating their opinions and I think their criticisms are genuine and I have no reason to doubt them.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Again, it isn't exactly the same guy you always read about, since continuity has been altered numerous times since then. Alan wasn't "out" in a lot of the stories we read, so it stands to reason that, on the surface, a lot of those stories happened as we saw them.

It just seems like people nitpicking because they don't like the gay thing. I don't remember too many people being upset when Wally West was suddenly shown to have a dysfunctional family and painful childhood when they'd previously been depicted as fairly Walton-esque. Most of those old Kid Flash stories were still in continuity and referenced, but this big part of Wally's personal life was retroactively different suddenly. It actually led to a lot of great character work and added a lot of depth to his personality and motives to be a superhero. It was all new stuff that still kept most of his history intact.

They retcon stuff all the time in both DC and Marvel. But it's this stuff that causes the most protest for some reason.

I agree that Alan being gay might affect who he is on some level. I think there's a way to write that where it works and is interesting---I think the idea of this all-american, tough-as-nails manly man of the 40s being in the closet has a lot of potential---but this series has essentially replaced who Alan was with this kind of generic character and made the entire story about him being gay. It should be an aspect of the character, but not his defining trait. His core character and personality should remain essentially the same. Loathe as I am to give credit to Johns, he did a commendable job of that in the recent JSA issue.

As for Jason, yes, they retconned Jason's backstory and physical appearance drastically. There was actually a period of overlap where the acrobat version of Jason and the street kid version were appearing at the same time in different books.

No, but you did see them complain when Wally was turned into a stereotypical angry African American teenager.

Characterization matters, especially in comics.

[Refrax5]

No, but you did see them complain when Wally was turned into a stereotypical angry African American teenager.

Characterization matters, especially in comics.

Yes, except outside of this one book, Alan's personality essentially remains the same.

[Refrax5]

A bunch of people have explained their issues with this series aside from Alan being gay. While it wasn't my experience, criticism for this mini doesn't just boil down to not liking Alan being gay. Most people on this forum especially, come across to me as capable of articulating their opinions and I think their criticisms are genuine and I have no reason to doubt them.

If you were paying attention, I was one of the people saying that I think this series is poorly written. I was saying that saying a retcon, something commonplace in comics and DC in particular, is unacceptable in this case while not having a real explanation as to why it's different from other, more drastic examples seems like nitpicking. And there's definitely one person on here, without naming names, that has expressed some less-than-enlightened views in the past.

I'm not saying that everybody who dislikes this feels that way because they're a bigot. Again, I think this series sucks and I've stated that in this thread.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yes, except outside of this one book, Alan's personality essentially remains the same.

He's only really appearing in two books, though.

So yeah...

[Refrax5]

He's only really appearing in two books, though.

So yeah...

Okay, but he's appeared a few times prior and it's only really one writer that's done badly with him. It's not even that he has a different personality in this story, it's that he has no discernable personality.

But seeing as Johns, Williamson, and even Robinson have been able to write a good version of Alan as a gay man, it seems like a problem with this specific writer rather than with the overall idea.

[thwhtGuardian]

I still don't see how he's being written poorly or with a different personality.

The pacing is definitely slower than I'd like but the character work has been fun and I'm interested to see what happens with Alan now having the red flame as well as the green.

[j9ac9k]

The origin of the Red Lantern was unexpected and more interesting than I thought it was going to be. At least it explains why he appeared to be Russian in his initial brief appearances, while "John" did not.

Again, I like the stuff that's happening here, but it's still short on action. Even during their confrontation, they waste an entire page on a stupid joke about them passing through a family's living room. 96% of what Alan's done with the ring in this series is go through walls. (also, that time travel explanation seems overly convoluted for no reason - we know Alan's not going to become a Time Master so why set up this potentially insane power upgrade? Maybe it'll be explained next ish)

Charging a green ring with a red lantern is definitely an interesting idea. Funny how Sinestro kinda did something similar when it seemed his ring went from yellow to red just because he was mad enough.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I still don't see how he's being written poorly or with a different personality.

The pacing is definitely slower than I'd like but the character work has been fun and I'm interested to see what happens with Alan now having the red flame as well as the green.

Well, then, please point to the scenes where he's the hard ass bad ass ring slinger?

[j9ac9k]

Well, then, please point to the scenes where he's the hard ass bad ass ring slinger?

Please point out those scenes in his history to me. Because I've never thought of Alan as a "hard ass" or a "bad ass." Maybe I just haven't read those stories. To me, he's been more like Superman - the consummate selfless hero, not "bad ass." But then most stories I've read with him were post-Crisis where he was already well into his career.