Alan Scott: The Green Lantern by Tim Sheridan and Cian Tormey (New Golden Age)

[j9ac9k]

As a gay man and as a longtime fan of the Alan Scott Green Lantern, I have mixed feelings about this Sheridan storyline. I love that Alan is gay, and it is well established LGBT history that many gays and lesbians of earlier generations lived closeted lives, marrying and having children. Some stayed celibate, and some had same sex relations on the down low. Most stayed closed their entire lives. Some came out very late in life. I know several men who came out in the their sixties, seventies or even eighties. So Alan coming out after many decades of being seen as straight is not a problem for me. It’s actually a refreshingly original take for comics.

My problem is that Sheridan seems to be to talking this in a narrative direction where the mini series ends with Alan being fully accepting of who he is. And that doesn’t make sense, if any continuity is to be preserved of Alan marrying and having kids and coming out very late in life. If Alan is struggling and in denial, his marrying Molly makes sense. If he is fully self accepting and still chooses to deceive and marry Molly, then he’s an *******, and I would think his friends (Doiby, Jay, Spectre) would call him on it.

I actually had a very similar reaction. It's one thing if Alan was unwilling to accept himself during that time and lived a lie - it's completely believable and can still fit more easily into what had been presented and can still be a very compelling story, but it's another if Alan had been living a double-life even back then. I will reserve final judgement since the story is still being told and I'm not going to say a story is bad because it's not what I would have done, but this aspect does make it more problematic. Will someone figure out a way to resolve it with sensitivity to all parties involved? Remains to be seen, but it does raise the level of difficulty in my mind.

[amerigo178]

The original actual wasn’t. The creators Nodell&Finger didn’t make him that way.
If they did the book wouldn’t have sold

[Mantis-Ray]

I actually had a very similar reaction. It's one thing if Alan was unwilling to accept himself during that time and lived a lie - it's completely believable and can still fit more easily into what had been presented and can still be a very compelling story, but it's another if Alan had been living a double-life even back then. I will reserve final judgement since the story is still being told and I'm not going to say a story is bad because it's not what I would have done, but this aspect does make it more problematic. Will someone figure out a way to resolve it with sensitivity to all parties involved? Remains to be seen, but it does raise the level of difficulty in my mind.

I'm gonna speculate that maybe the confrontation with Red Lantern will prove so traumatic and disastrous that its what ultimately will close off Alan for decades on the matter.

I'm assuming cause yeah otherwise if this ends with Alan ends completely accepting of his sexuality that creates some weird continuity gaps especially in regards to Jade and Obsidian's conception.

[j9ac9k]

One issue I feel that needs to be addressed with how this story depicts Alan's life as a gay man is his relationship with Todd. We've recently seen Alan talking to his children as though he recently came out of the closet. And perhaps he had in terms of the public, but why would this be new information to Todd? Why wouldn't he have told his gay son long ago? I hope someone has a good idea about how to address all this so it makes sense.

[Refrax5]

I never had much issue with Alan being gay. I was actually a big fan of the Earth 2 version of Alan. The problem I have with this series is that very little of it feels distinctive to Alan and very little of his personality seems present. It feels like the entire story is about him being gay more than it is about him as a superhero or what kind of guy he is outside of that. It feels like there's nothing really there for anyone who liked Alan before. Its not like it should be ignored, but I also feel like it overtakes everything else about the character.

In Earth 2, Alan was gay and it wasn't shied away from, but it also wasn't the defining attribute of the character. He still very much had his classic tough, bull-headed attitude and type A personality and that series seemed more concerned with telling the story of Alan as a hero and making him a badass superhero than anything else.

I feel like part of what's off-putting about modern comics attempts at doing these things is that it feels like a corporate mandate for performative PR reasons, rather than anything woven organically in the story. It feels like these companies are trying a little too hard to remind you how diverse they are, at the expense of the actual characters or stories.

And I say this as a die-hard progressive and as an Alan Scott fan who previously defended the decision to make him gay: this story just isn't especially interesting. It feels like it could have been any character in it and they just chose to use Alan for it.

[j9ac9k]

I never had much issue with Alan being gay. I was actually a big fan of the Earth 2 version of Alan. The problem I have with this series is that very little of it feels distinctive to Alan and very little of his personality seems present. It feels like the entire story is about him being gay more than it is about him as a superhero or what kind of guy he is outside of that. It feels like there's nothing really there for anyone who liked Alan before. Its not like it should be ignored, but I also feel like it overtakes everything else about the character.

In Earth 2, Alan was gay and it wasn't shied away from, but it also wasn't the defining attribute of the character. He still very much had his classic tough, bull-headed attitude and type A personality and that series seemed more concerned with telling the story of Alan as a hero and making him a badass superhero than anything else.

I feel like part of what's off-putting about modern comics attempts at doing these things is that it feels like a corporate mandate for performative PR reasons, rather than anything woven organically in the story. It feels like these companies are trying a little too hard to remind you how diverse they are, at the expense of the actual characters or stories.

And I say this as a die-hard progressive and as an Alan Scott fan who previously defended the decision to make him gay: this story just isn't especially interesting. It feels like it could have been any character in it and they just chose to use Alan for it.

I've read a fair amount of Alan Scott as GL in the past, but far from complete. I mostly knew him post-Crisis where he was an elderstatesman and that dominated his persona, other than being a fairly traditional "hero type." Prior to that, did he have much of a personality? One of the few good things about so many earth GLs is that there became a need to differentiate them by personality, since their powers are the same. Alan was different because he's been around a long time, his powers are based on magic, he has children, etc. but I don't know if I could say anything about his inner life other than being an honorable, selfless hero.

I think this mini is meant to lay the groundwork for Alan becoming the JSA mainstay and embodying that heroic ideal. The clearest indication is that he keeps wanting to work alone, and I suspect he'll have a change of heart by the time this story ends. So, I don't expect him to be such the standard here - he's still figuring it out, which is okay with me.

And imo, I can't see how you can call this "performative." Alan being gay informs everything about the story and what he's going through emotionally. I'm sure some people don't like his sexuality being so front and center, but the fact that it is means it's not performative - it's a key part of the story being told. I don't know how else it could be "woven organically into the story." How is it not organic to this particular story? (it's certainly no less organic than any hetero storyline)

[Refrax5]

I've read a fair amount of Alan Scott as GL in the past, but far from complete. I mostly knew him post-Crisis where he was an elderstatesman and that dominated his persona, other than being a fairly traditional "hero type." Prior to that, did he have much of a personality? One of the few good things about so many earth GLs is that there became a need to differentiate them by personality, since their powers are the same. Alan was different because he's been around a long time, his powers are based on magic, he has children, etc. but I don't know if I could say anything about his inner life other than being an honorable, selfless hero.

I think this mini is meant to lay the groundwork for Alan becoming the JSA mainstay and embodying that heroic ideal. The clearest indication is that he keeps wanting to work alone, and I suspect he'll have a change of heart by the time this story ends. So, I don't expect him to be such the standard here - he's still figuring it out, which is okay with me.

And imo, I can't see how you can call this "performative." Alan being gay informs everything about the story and what he's going through emotionally. I'm sure some people don't like his sexuality being so front and center, but the fact that it is means it's not performative - it's a key part of the story being told. I don't know how else it could be "woven organically into the story." How is it not organic to this particular story? (it's certainly no less organic than any hetero storyline)

I more mean that it seems DC is making him being gay his only defining element at this point. It feels like these companies can't have a minority character without constantly calling attention to it and having it be the only important element of the story.

Yeah, Alan did have a personality in the past. Again, Robinson managed to make Alan gay, young, and with a different power source in Earth 2 and still made him more recognizable than Alan AND more interesting than this series has done.

I think the scene where the Spectre hugs Alan and gives a whole thing about how God is cool with it seems really heavy-handed and silly. I've never seen Spectre act this way and I think its just really hamfisted, poor writing that doesn't feel anything like the characters. That's what I mean about it being performative and inorganic. It feels like DC showing off how big of allies they are without really writing an interesting character or story.

It just makes me roll my eyes when you can't let the story or what you believe in stand for itself and you literally have to have an agent of God written in to tell the reader that even God agrees. It just comes off as trying way too hard.

I've never met a gay person where being gay was their sole defining trait. But this series definitely treats Alan that way.

[Jon Clark]

I more mean that it seems DC is making him being gay his only defining element at this point. It feels like these companies can't have a minority character without constantly calling attention to it and having it be the only important element of the story.

Yeah, Alan did have a personality in the past. Again, Robinson managed to make Alan gay, young, and with a different power source in Earth 2 and still made him more recognizable than Alan AND more interesting than this series has done.

I think the scene where the Spectre hugs Alan and gives a whole thing about how God is cool with it seems really heavy-handed and silly. I've never seen Spectre act this way and I think its just really hamfisted, poor writing that doesn't feel anything like the characters. That's what I mean about it being performative and inorganic. It feels like DC showing off how big of allies they are without really writing an interesting character or story.

It just makes me roll my eyes when you can't let the story or what you believe in stand for itself and you literally have to have an agent of God written in to tell the reader that even God agrees. It just comes off as trying way too hard.

I've never met a gay person where being gay was their sole defining trait. But this series definitely treats Alan that way.

I have to agree. The whole story has involved Alan's love-life in one way or another. And not is a comperable way to other Golden Age heroes. Would the current Sandman mini choose to focus on Wesley and a string of barely developed female lovers he had to move the plot along? So far we have "Johnny Ladd" who will probably get more development since he seems to be Red Lantern, Jimmy who was a minor player in the original origin tale and barely more here, and the most recent deceased person who like Jimmy is only known in the past tense. Even if these were people important in Alan's life- we're show them in a way that makes Alan seem a shallow tomcat with a string of ex-lovers.

And while i won't try and claim "God's" opinion on homosexuality one way or the other- the Spectre was always shown as a merciless enforcer. Can't quite see Jim Corrigan (let alone the actual Wrath Of God Spectre) having a "God is a loving merciful sort" opinion. It might work for Dr Fate (as ancient mystic) or Hawkman (drawing on memories of lifetimes) to give Alan a push towards not being guilty over his sexual activity. But not the Spectre. At least not a Spectre that didn't go through that long 1990's self- examination arc.

The miniseries to me is burdened by trying to both insert this whole Red Lantern idea into Alan's past while at the same time retrofitting a whole different characterization for Alan- neither of which really fit anything about the character in the intervening eight decades. Even if the actual story was good it would be a tough job, and so far this has been mediocre even if you never heard of Alan before and are reading this with no baggage

[amerigo178]

I believe the Spectre was used was so Sheridan could have a God stand in
hug Scott and say it’s alright. After all. Spectre is God s stand in in the DCU
My problem is Scott was prowling the docks picking guys up. If he was still
heart broken over Ladd and abstained for a while scenes with Spectre works little
better for me. But here all that maters is him having a good time

[Jody Garland]

One thing to note about the Spectre in this issue is that he's not Jim Corrigan or the Spectre unbound. Corrigan says he's still dealing with identity issues after dying (assuming this is around 1942 or so, Corrigan would be dead for around two years and who knows how long the Spectre was in the driver's seat full time). He doesn't sound like the Specrtre does normally on purpose- this is an era that is largely untouched by modern continuity. We rarely see him interact with non-sinners- or at least, with people who wrongly believe they are sinning- so it's also slightly untouched territory too. I'll confesses I thought this voice was a bit off, though and the hug is a bit too modern for the character and the setting too.

I see the point about Alan being a bit of a tomcat too, but I think it has to be taken in the context of the actual gay rights movement. Hook up culture existed in part because it was nigh impossible to have actual relationships. It's another facet of this being a gay period piece, like the interlude in an asylum with the threat of a lobotomy hanging overhead.

[Refrax5]

I have to agree. The whole story has involved Alan's love-life in one way or another. And not is a comperable way to other Golden Age heroes. Would the current Sandman mini choose to focus on Wesley and a string of barely developed female lovers he had to move the plot along? So far we have "Johnny Ladd" who will probably get more development since he seems to be Red Lantern, Jimmy who was a minor player in the original origin tale and barely more here, and the most recent deceased person who like Jimmy is only known in the past tense. Even if these were people important in Alan's life- we're show them in a way that makes Alan seem a shallow tomcat with a string of ex-lovers.

And while i won't try and claim "God's" opinion on homosexuality one way or the other- the Spectre was always shown as a merciless enforcer. Can't quite see Jim Corrigan (let alone the actual Wrath Of God Spectre) having a "God is a loving merciful sort" opinion. It might work for Dr Fate (as ancient mystic) or Hawkman (drawing on memories of lifetimes) to give Alan a push towards not being guilty over his sexual activity. But not the Spectre. At least not a Spectre that didn't go through that long 1990's self- examination arc.

The miniseries to me is burdened by trying to both insert this whole Red Lantern idea into Alan's past while at the same time retrofitting a whole different characterization for Alan- neither of which really fit anything about the character in the intervening eight decades. Even if the actual story was good it would be a tough job, and so far this has been mediocre even if you never heard of Alan before and are reading this with no baggage

Yeah, I'm not especially religious and it never really made sense to me that God would view something like that as a sin, but a writer using the Spectre as a way of reinforcing his own views felt really eye-roll-inducing to me.

And yeah, I think that's the real problem. There's nothing about this story that's especially interesting or exciting and there's not much here to make you go "Man, what a cool character" if it's your first time reading him. I feel sorry for him for what he's going through in the story, certainly, but I don't feel like there's much of a character there.

[j9ac9k]

Yeah, I'm not especially religious and it never really made sense to me that God would view something like that as a sin, but a writer using the Spectre as a way of reinforcing his own views felt really eye-roll-inducing to me.

And yeah, I think that's the real problem. There's nothing about this story that's especially interesting or exciting and there's not much here to make you go "Man, what a cool character" if it's your first time reading him. I feel sorry for him for what he's going through in the story, certainly, but I don't feel like there's much of a character there.

It's classic, "show, don't tell." Rather than have The Spectre tell us Alan's a good man who does what's right, why not show him being a hero (we've barely seen any ring-slinging as it is). Seeing Alan put his life on the line for people who "fear and hate" him would've been a better choice,(maybe some of the cops who were beating on his friend at the dock) so the audience can decide he's a good man, rather then the "voice of God" telling us.

[Mantis-Ray]

It's classic, "show, don't tell." Rather than have The Spectre tell us Alan's a good man who does what's right, why not show him being a hero (we've barely seen any ring-slinging as it is). Seeing Alan put his life on the line for people who "fear and hate" him would've been a better choice,(maybe some of the cops who were beating on his friend at the dock) so the audience can decide he's a good man, rather then the "voice of God" telling us.

Yeah I definitely say my biggest bug with this book is that it focuses too much on Alan's backstory and not enough on superheroics.

Especially compared to the other JSA books Jay and Sandman which better balances the character drama while still having good spectacle and action spread out.

[Refrax5]

It's classic, "show, don't tell." Rather than have The Spectre tell us Alan's a good man who does what's right, why not show him being a hero (we've barely seen any ring-slinging as it is). Seeing Alan put his life on the line for people who "fear and hate" him would've been a better choice,(maybe some of the cops who were beating on his friend at the dock) so the audience can decide he's a good man, rather then the "voice of God" telling us.

Yeah, definitely a good way of putting it. And while I'm not the biggest fan of Johns, I liked the way Alan was handled in the new JSA issue much better. That issue handled his past and his sexuality in a way that I thought made for an interesting story with good and believable character moments and he still felt very much like the Alan Scott I've always loved. It felt like a perfect balance.

[thwhtGuardian]

As a gay man and as a longtime fan of the Alan Scott Green Lantern, I have mixed feelings about this Sheridan storyline. I love that Alan is gay, and it is well established LGBT history that many gays and lesbians of earlier generations lived closeted lives, marrying and having children. Some stayed celibate, and some had same sex relations on the down low. Most stayed closed their entire lives. Some came out very late in life. I know several men who came out in the their sixties, seventies or even eighties. So Alan coming out after many decades of being seen as straight is not a problem for me. It’s actually a refreshingly original take for comics.

My problem is that Sheridan seems to be to talking this in a narrative direction where the mini series ends with Alan being fully accepting of who he is. And that doesn’t make sense, if any continuity is to be preserved of Alan marrying and having kids and coming out very late in life. If Alan is struggling and in denial, his marrying Molly makes sense. If he is fully self accepting and still chooses to deceive and marry Molly, then he’s an *******, and I would think his friends (Doiby, Jay, Spectre) would call him on it.

That assumes he deceived his partners, who says he has to do that?