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  1. #46
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Yeah.

    I think I must clarify that whenever I say that "Clark is real", I don't mean that "Superman is fake". I do think that whatever 'Superman' does, it's the real Clark doing it in the suit. 'Superman' isn't a construct to the extent that 'Batman' is. When it comes to Batman, Bruce Wayne has created this persona to intimidate criminals. When it comes to Superman though, I think its just Clark being his real self in the suit. Of course, once Superman becomes a big-deal public figure and celebrity, and once he becomes de-facto leader of the superhero community, I can see the Superman persona evolving a little to adapt to those circumstances. But by and large, I don't think Superman is a 'mask' or a 'construct' the way Batman is (though arguably, Batman too becomes 'real' over time...but that's another debate for another part of this forum ).

    Even in Byrne's MOS, where Clark describes Superman as being "a fancy pair of long-johns", it's still clear that Superman is very much real and not some 'act' by Clark. I think Clark thinks of Superman as 'the suit' and how people perceive him when he's wearing it and publicaly using his powers, but it's still very much him doing it.
    Yeah it's the sort of comment taken at face value. For a guy who spends days or weeks out in space, has life changing experiences with other powered or costumed characters regardless of their other roles/identities, amd even dreams of them... it's clear that it's his life just as much as anything human.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Yeah it's the sort of comment taken at face value. For a guy who spends days or weeks out in space, has life changing experiences with other powered or costumed characters regardless of their other roles/identities, amd even dreams of them... it's clear that it's his life just as much as anything human.
    True.

    I also think it's something that evolves gradually. Like, maybe he starts out as Clark Kent, and 'Superman' is a public persona he adopts when he's wearing the suit (in Byrne's MOS, Lois names him 'Superman' and then the suit is created). But years pass, and as he learns more about his Kryptonian heritage, has adventures in space, interacts with alien races and other Kryptonians, works alongside other superheroes and becomes a de-facto 'leader' of the superhero community, becomes well-known to the authorities and many other individuals while in costume (including Presidents and military leaders), and becomes a global and even intergalactic icon, well, it's safe to say that 'Superman' takes on a life of its own.

    And I much prefer that, the idea that Superman is something that evolved over time even in-universe and grew to mythic proportions, as opposed to the idea that he was always fully-formed as Superman (or Superboy or Superbaby) and 'Clark Kent' is a disguise.

  3. #48
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    And I much prefer that, the idea that Superman is something that evolved over time even in-universe and grew to mythic proportions, as opposed to the idea that he was always fully-formed as Superman (or Superboy or Superbaby) and 'Clark Kent' is a disguise.
    As much as we disagree on certain fundamental things, this view is something I can largely agree with. I think neither is purely a disguise. I think different times, and different creators, different media have absolutely emphasized one persona/dimension over the other, but, as I've said before, it's complex thing as opposed to some overly simple duality where one is real and other is not.

    Some might view All Star as perhaps moving away from Byrne/Post-Crisis, and I think it partially is (Morrison clearly thinks Superman's SA still has its place, its charms, retains its narrative power), but it's also I think just an attempt to illustrate that Superman and his identities are a bit of a complex soup where all are primary and important, all can and should be emphasized.

    In a weird way, possibly it's good that different Superman creators think Superman is primary (Waid, Elliot Maggin) and others Clark, because perhaps it's a reminder to us all that both are primary and neither should be downplayed. I don't know. Maybe these creators stake out these (extreme?) positions because they sense some imbalance.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 06-26-2023 at 01:16 PM.
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