X-Men Monday #204 – X Me Anything With Jordan D. White

[Devaishwarya]

That's how I feel as well. There's something imbalanced at the moment that I can't put my finger on but we see it even now with R&G, BishopWC, NM Lethal Legion. Those minis feel all over the place and I hope that doesn't continue with the new set of minis.

Thank you. And I would add the whole year of Orlando's Marauders to that list of waste of time and pointlessness. For those interested I hope so as well but...

[JB]

I think that's the point...instead of sticking to the five "core" books IXM, XM, XMR, XF/W (and I would have probably included BB:CB because otherworld was a major player but has lost its relevancy) and lazer-focusing on those we're getting nine more LS ie shit thrown against the wall. Granted from the solicits the Jean LS is the only one that sounds relevant but everything else...? No.

I'm very curious about what's to come after Fall of X. Will they launch a whole new batch of minis to go along the "core five" or will they courageously launch all new ongoings? Hmm.

After the fall it come the rise!

Rise of X! Return of X ! or Something that means that Mutankind is fine of X!

Mutantkind is fine of X! I love it.

[CGAR]

Yeah idk whats going on behind the scenes but some of those editors need reality checks.

And i'm fine with writers finishing their stories BUT im also well aware that other writers are capable of continuing stories from previous writers.

TH did things off panel all the time so another writer could have easily taken over.

[RAWRlrus]

Hope this not the end of Krakoa status quo.

I doubt it is. It seems popular and it still feels like there are threads that are ongoing that won't work outside of Krakoa. Mother Righteous for one, and possibly Orchis. I'm struggling to see how they might totally be gone after four months. Plus the Dominion stuff.

Yeah I think that's partly why they're going with all the minis too. It's kinda weird having books like Hellions end at 18, SWORD at 11, Marauders at 12, New Mutants at 33. Maybe to them they feel it looks better to just market minis with clear endings rather than ongoings that stop at different places.

I wonder if it has to do with how Marvel is constantly relaunching the X-line with things like Fall, Reign, Destiney etc while still being in the Krakoa Era. Easier to keep the relaunches cleaner with minis ending at roughly the same number than all over the place with multiple ongoings. Although I wish the would stop with the relaunches tbh.

I think that's the point...instead of sticking to the five "core" books IXM, XM, XMR, XF/W (and I would have probably included BB:CB because otherworld was a major player but has lost its relevancy) and lazer-focusing on those we're getting nine more LS ie shit thrown against the wall. Granted from the solicits the Jean LS is the only one that sounds relevant but everything else...? No.

I like the idea of the minis. Keep a few core books and give minis to other writers to explore the characters that aren't in the core books. Let them be whatever tone because some characters work better in some situations than others. But doing it when shit is supposed to be hitting the fan in Fall is weird.

[JB]

Thank you. And I would add the whole year of Orlando's Marauders to that list of waste of time and pointlessness. For those interested I hope so as well but...

I tried so hard to understand Marauders, I really did...

Yeah idk whats going on behind the scenes but some of those editors need reality checks.

And i'm fine with writers finishing their stories BUT im also well aware that other writers are capable of continuing stories from previous writers.

TH did things off panel all the time so another writer could have easily taken over.

To Devaishwarya's point, someone could have easily taken Otherworld and brought it to a level of spotlight similar to Arakko. Making Betsy's role important outside of her own book as well as within. Keeping her so disconnected from everything else is definitely not a choice I would have made.

As Betsy fans we're of course analyzing all the decisions made regarding her but when I look around, I see a lot of strange decisions being made across the line and then at Marvel in general.

[Jackraow21]

I think that's the point...instead of sticking to the five "core" books IXM, XM, XMR, XF/W (and I would have probably included BB:CB because otherworld was a major player but has lost its relevancy) and lazer-focusing on those we're getting nine more LS ie shit thrown against the wall. Granted from the solicits the Jean LS is the only one that sounds relevant but everything else...? No.

But it seems to me like this is what fans are always asking for... more chances for less popular/more obscure characters to get to shine? So by keeping the core books fairly tight -- though admittedly still allowing room for other characters to shine (e.g., Synch in X-men, or Sunspot in X-men Red, not to mention the Arakki mutants, etc.) -- they can do a Captain Britain mini, or a Rogue & Gambit series, or a Bishop mini, a Sabretooth mini, etc. Kind of a best of both worlds approach, if you will.

Not saying it's been wildly successful, but I suppose I can kind of see what they're going for here.

[Malachi]

I think that's the point...instead of sticking to the five "core" books IXM, XM, XMR, XF/W (and I would have probably included BB:CB because otherworld was a major player but has lost its relevancy) and lazer-focusing on those we're getting nine more LS ie shit thrown against the wall. Granted from the solicits the Jean LS is the only one that sounds relevant but everything else...? No.

I know we often get into these hype bubbles because even with the five “core” titles so many characters don’t appear, or when they do it’s mostly cameo or wallpaper. This era used the no-death and all mutants in the same place to ride that hype but now 2-3 years later the concept has lost a lot of novelty. It’s great that character X appears but when it doesn’t amount to more then just being there even starved fans gets tired.

This mini era we are in tries to do the same but fails. I think it fails because it seems that the x-office doesn’t care. Beyond the common topics of forums like this, like interconnectivity and mattering, there just doesn’t seem to be a lot of love and care put into it. More like let’s use as much as possible to earn as much as possible.

Before it’s sucked when the same characters were used over and over again but when your favorite got to appear it often meant that it did something. Now in the end it’s pretty much the same characters that get the meaty parts and the rest being used in name only.

Then we have the new characters that are being introduced into an ocean of mutants. We want these to matter? Well let’s not oversaturate the market. Introduce a few and give them important parts. If they stick then great, if not try again. Not this more is more approach we have now.

[Devaishwarya]

Giving us tie-in minis is all well and good and very welcomed for introducing new/not well known/underutilised characters but....make them cohesive and stick tightly to the script being written (Apparently that last part is way too much to ask.)...and we might be more invested in them. And those new characters might actually have a good shot at gaining popularity.

We don't need characters galavanting all over the MU for seemingly dumb reasons when the battle is between Orchis and krakoa/Arakko/Otherworld.

[Nicoclaws]

I tried so hard to understand Marauders, I really did...



To Devaishwarya's point, someone could have easily taken Otherworld and brought it to a level of spotlight similar to Arakko. Making Betsy's role important outside of her own book as well as within. Keeping her so disconnected from everything else is definitely not a choice I would have made.

As Betsy fans we're of course analyzing all the decisions made regarding her but when I look around, I see a lot of strange decisions being made across the line and then at Marvel in general.

Marauders was about
1) making mutants bigger and making really outlandish and seemingly humanly impossible decisions and feats
2) explaining "ancient" mutants like the Aaron mess or Okkara.
3) tying the Shi'ar even more to the X-men (tying to Red)
While doing some character work with Fang, Kate, Cassandra Nova and Tempo.
It may have been hard to follow and a bit messy (why Stryfe ?) but it was certainly not pointless, imho.
Did it succeed ?

[Sisterhood Of Mutants]

I know we often get into these hype bubbles because even with the five “core” titles so many characters don’t appear, or when they do it’s mostly cameo or wallpaper. This era used the no-death and all mutants in the same place to ride that hype but now 2-3 years later the concept has lost a lot of novelty. It’s great that character X appears but when it doesn’t amount to more then just being there even starved fans gets tired.

This mini era we are in tries to do the same but fails. I think it fails because it seems that the x-office doesn’t care. Beyond the common topics of forums like this, like interconnectivity and mattering, there just doesn’t seem to be a lot of love and care put into it. More like let’s use as much as possible to earn as much as possible.

Before it’s sucked when the same characters were used over and over again but when your favorite got to appear it often meant that it did something. Now in the end it’s pretty much the same characters that get the meaty parts and the rest being used in name only.

Then we have the new characters that are being introduced into an ocean of mutants. We want these to matter? Well let’s not oversaturate the market. Introduce a few and give them important parts. If they stick then great, if not try again. Not this more is more approach we have now.

Right? I appreciate the pretty variant covers they keep using my favs to sell books with, but c’mon.

[Kingdom X]

Couple of thoughts on what folks have said:

1. Things have felt off since Hickman left, and I think that’s because everyone realized that there was no guarantee that everything would tie together. All of a sudden there was no master architect who would make all this world building make sense and reach it’s ultimate conclusion. At the same time we had untimely cancellations like X-Factor and flops like X-Corp, and suddenly the ground we were standing on no longer felt solid.

2. I think Destiny of X was able to recapture momentum lost in Reign of X, but now there was a clear hierarchy of titles. X-Men, IM, and to a lesser degree XMR and Spurrier’s stuff drive the line. Everything else can very easily be ignored. Like others have mentioned the late DoX mini’s are super inconsequential and pretty low quality.

3. Looking forward to Fall of X I’m somewhat more optimistic about the quality of the mini’s we’re getting as they’re at least all supposed to be tied to a specific event and status quo (Destiny of X wasn’t really a new status quo aside from Moira being evil). At the same time… I do agree that the office has fully entered it’s “See what stick’s era.” If Dark X-Men is fantastic AND sells great we’ll have to wait months for a continuation because unlike DC, Marvel rarely extends minis and tends to just relaunch. On another hand if one if these series is critically acclaimed and doesn’t do well sales wise we have no guarantee that the office will pick up those ideas and concepts (see: editorial having no idea what’ll happen to Betsy despite her leading a title for 4 years).

Overall while I don’t disagree that the X-Office will always need side titles to highlight it’s mass of characters, it’s completely lost the feeling generated during Dawn of X that all those titles can have an impact. Also, FoX has clearly positioned itself as a transition period which will always have fans asking about what comes next.

[ARkadelphia]

after the fall it come the rise!

Rise of x! Return of x ! Or something that means that mutankind is fine of x!

aokx!!!!!!

[JB]

I've been thinking about the conversation we were having in this thread regarding the era of minis and how the X-office seems to have entered a “See what stick’s era.”

Steve Orlando has being fielding questions on twitter as he sometimes does and I was saddened by this response:

Q: Are the sales of Scarlet Witch doing okay ? Do you think we could expect to have at least 30 issues ?

A: Sales are struggling, alongside the whole industry. Right now, we'll hopefully get to ten.

To get even 15 issues, sales will need to continue to climb.

I feared something was up a few months ago when Dauterman asked his followers to preorder the book.

The industry is in a strange place and I believe that's why the X-office and Marvel are trying new things to see what sticks. I think the numbers are so tight that they can't risk giving a creative team more than 5 issues at a time. So rather than having books getting cancelled left and right, it looks better to just have minis. It's possible they become the new normal and something we may have to get used to as long-form storytelling fades. If this does become the new normal then hopefully they'll try to give us the best quality minis possible.
(This is also why we can't depend on websites that give us "sales data." We, nor they, don't have access to the real numbers.)

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

The industry is an odd one. Even though the artwork is sometimes immaculate, a 5-10 reading minute experience doesn't feel worth $5 or $6. Pretty much all other entertainment industries are like "how can we give the buyer an extreme amount of bang for the buck?" but comics just may not have the margins. It's a print/written medium, yet it isn't long-form at all, sort of like a tweet, and yet it isn't free.

If you think about it to hard, this kind of product is a bit unreasonable unless you just love the intellectual property. That's what it has been and is coming down to.


A company tried to charge money for ~10-minute video content with superstar actors and went under pretty much immediately. The structure of comics has to change, I think.

[JB]

The industry is an odd one. Even though the artwork is sometimes immaculate, a 5-10 reading minute experience doesn't feel worth $5 or $6. Pretty much all other entertainment industries are like "how can we give the buyer an extreme amount of bang for the buck?" but comics just may not have the margins. It's a print/written medium, yet it isn't long-form at all, sort of like a tweet, and yet it isn't free.

If you think about it to hard, this kind of product is a bit unreasonable unless you just love the intellectual property. That's what it has been and is coming down to.


A company tried to charge money for ~10-minute video content with superstar actors and went under pretty much immediately. The structure of comics has to change, I think.

You're right and that definitely speaks to the recent thread started by Alex_of_X about the price creep to $5 and the reaction from most posters. Though my friend did make a point recently to me when he tagged along on my comic shop trip and said compared to him paying $5 for a cup coffee everyday, "your hobby isn't too bad." But I agree that we consume a comic very quickly.

I was reading about how DC seems to be embracing their loss leader status by investing heavily in the quality of their IP and how they'll let some titles still run to #100 and beyond because it's worth it with their other revenue streams. It'll be interesting to see if/how things change at Marvel as Disney takes more of a proactive role in how things run.