What major event in DC Comics history caused the most damage?

[SiegePerilous02]

God Bless you sir. I always thought The Dark Knight Return did so much damage to the Batman franchise, when everyone wanted to bring that into the main mythos. Miller's pessimism (which was fine for a one time thing), took root in so much of DC. Shame. I miss the earlier 70's and 80's Neal Adams/Denny O'Neal stories. (Outside of the Adam West version, of course).

I grew up on Bronze Age Bats comics and, judging by my avatar, was a huge fan of him. Yet, it's hard to say he and his franchise have suffered when he's at his most popular now and for a few decades, too.

Considering there was technically no franchise before TDKR, you might be right. It would be more accurate to say that TDKR popularized Batman to the cynical, then post-modern late-80s crowd that wanted to see their childhood heroes deconstructed so that they were as miserable as they were. TDKR led to Batman becoming a franchise outside of comics that has been largely influenced by Miller's "vision" of Batman.

This post is winning.

Give me Bronze age Batman over Miller Bats.

Miller is a double edged sword, because we wouldn't have a lot of the great content we have today without him boosting Batman's popularity.

I can't say I personally like his influence on Batman though. I like to view Batman as a hero, and Miller (and the takes inspired by him) lead to Batman not being remotely heroic.

[All Star Superman]

I grew up on Bronze Age Bats comics and, judging by my avatar, was a huge fan of him. Yet, it's hard to say he and his franchise have suffered when he's at his most popular now and for a few decades, too.

Perhaps we could say that a franchise suffering is different than a character's iconic self being faithfully adapted? This is true of many franchises today: Transformers, Star Wars, the DCEU. They make a great deal of money, but the substance of the characters has not survived the transition from page or small screen to big screen. Batman survived Miller in the comics, but outside of the first Burton movie (and only partially), B:TAS, and a few other series, we've seen Miller's take far more than the Dark Knight Detective of O'Neil, Englehart, Moench, Dixon, and Grant.

[Gaius]

By then I think they had established the Trinity were still a thing thanks to that Matt Wagner series (which wasn't very good from what I heard).

You would have heard correct.

I feel like the kiss in For the Man Who Has Everything has more to do with it. Well, that and people shipping them. I'm not even sure if Kingdom Come was out by the time there was that crossover during Bryne's run where they kissed and Supes was into her, though she let him down gently.

Both of which ended with the point of they shouldn't be together. FTMWHE ending with the "too obvious" line and Perez having the unsolicited kiss and Diana walking away thinking Supes didn't live up to her expectations

Waid's the one who wrote the story where she was Supes rebound girl and ended her career as his babymaker.

[Stanlos]

I don't understand this post at all.

[Frontier]

Both of which ended with the point of they shouldn't be together. FTMWHE ending with the "too obvious" line and Perez having the unsolicited kiss and Diana walking away thinking Supes didn't live up to her expectations

Waid's the one who wrote the story where she was Supes rebound girl and ended her career as his babymaker.

True, but it seems like shipping or teasing the two dates back well before him.

[HsssH]

There are shippers probably for every pairing imaginable. But KC is probably first major work to make it look like a good thing. On the other hand, KC is more Ross than Waid so maybe it wasn't Waid's idea.

[marhawkman]

Project A-ko, which isn't DC, also went there.

[failo.legendkiller]

New 52 ruined an amazing continuity with legacy and a future.

The icons were at the middle state while the young heroes were at the beginning stage and the legacy heroes were well a legacy where everything sprang up from.

New 52 completely destroyed it

Exactly THIS!

Make these changes:
-Keep Barry dead. Make COIE actually have some kind of consequence.
-Keep Hal as the Spectre. Again, make these stories and death have some kind of impact.
-Keep Jason Todd dead. Again again, make Death in the Family and death have some kind of real impact.
-Take the rape out of Identity Crisis
-Have Tim become a different hero like Dick (and I don't mean Red Robin). It doesn't make sense to have him and Damian be Robin.
-Restore Conner's character growth
-Keep Jon as a kid

I agree with everything and death should count!

[blunt_eastwood]

It always made zero sense that the sweet, heroic young man we met in COIE could turn into such a cold blooded killer. Johns really missed the mark with his transformation of S-Prime IMO.

It made sense to me. He lost his entire universe and then had to spend decades trapped in that crystal room thing, all while having to watch as some other replacement universe continued to get dark and lose hope.

I took the violence as him not being able to handle the powers he had gotten for the first time, although I could be completely misremembering it since I haven't read it in a while.

Now, with all of that being said, I started reading comics in the 90's, so I have no frame of reference for that character other than what I probably read in a Wikipedia article.

[blunt_eastwood]

It's so interesting to see how long time readers feel about DC's history.

I started reading comics in 1992 with Knightfall so I had no real point of reference for anything. Everything I read was amazing to me.

A perfect example is Zero Hour. When that first came out I thought it was the most epic story ever.

Now I find out that people don't like that story, don't like how the JSA was killed, or how Hal became evil.

[caj]

It made sense to me. He lost his entire universe and then had to spend decades trapped in that crystal room thing, all while having to watch as some other replacement universe continued to get dark and lose hope.

I took the violence as him not being able to handle the powers he had gotten for the first time, although I could be completely misremembering it since I haven't read it in a while.

Now, with all of that being said, I started reading comics in the 90's, so I have no frame of reference for that character other than what I probably read in a Wikipedia article.

In COIE, Alexander Luthor, Superboy Prime, Kal-L and Lois Lane were supposed to enter a Paradise dimension. It was Johns who chose to make it feel like a trap with them stuck there. They were supposed to be happy. At least that's what I remember for COIE.

[blunt_eastwood]

The crisis/crises that messed up the continuity that you liked the best is/are the one/ones that caused the most damage.

Which are you referring to? Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis? How did they mess up the continuity?

[KC]

To echo what other people have said, Crisis on Infinite Earths. It is a great story but it set a precedent for DC that isn't always for the best. And the consequences it had for Superman were awful as it gutted Superman's mythos until it was fixed in the 2000s.

[Sutekh]

Wonder Woman lost a lot by starting over from scratch in the "present day" vs. Superman and Batman being given their stories that took place in previous time. Diana was no longer on the same footing as Kal-El and Bruce were.

I'd have preferred if they went the other direction. Kal and Bruce remain relatively recently established heroes (at least a few years under their belts), and 'Wonder Woman' is something of a legend, last seen in WW2, alongside the Justice Society. And then this new 'Wonder Woman' shows up and makes a big splash, and Kal and Bruce find out she's not a 'new Wonder Woman' at all, she's the original WW2 heroine, experienced and familiar with this heroic role they've stepped into in this new age of heroes. And when they start meeting others from the previous age, like Dr. Fate, Diana is the one who knows them from 'the old days' and serves as the point of contact / bridge between the heroes of the golden age and the heroes of the new age of legends.

In this post-Crisis 'Legends' era, Diana is not the 'little sister' fresh off the boat, new to 'man's world,' she's the *big* sister, who knows the score and is back for another round.

[Stanlos]

It's so interesting to see how long time readers feel about DC's history.

I started reading comics in 1992 with Knightfall so I had no real point of reference for anything. Everything I read was amazing to me.

A perfect example is Zero Hour. When that first came out I thought it was the most epic story ever.

Now I find out that people don't like that story, don't like how the JSA was killed, or how Hal became evil.

Zero Hour was epic indeed but I understand that it suffered from editorial interference. Apparently the fate of the JSA was to be very very different. But in a way, it was the spiritual precursor to Infinite Crisis and War of the Gods in the way the lead up was handled. ZH had fully a year of build up in the League books with major threats leading up to ZH. While IC had a year's build up across multiple titles across the DCU as well as specials and minis.