Don't Say All Star Superman

[Stanlos]

I was recently listening to the Midnight Boys, a superhero fandom podcast on the Ringer network.
They uniformly agreed that Batman was the best superhero of our times and that Superman doesn't have the books or modern stories that hold up next to the Bat.

I have a list of my own but most of them are pre-crisis.

Not counting All Star Superman, what are the Superman classics that new fans should read?

My number one:

1. Superman For Tomorrow: Brian Azarello and Jim Lee. I think this story holds up really well and threads the needle with old and new fans.

I like SUPERMAN FOR EARTH

[DABellWrites]

Aside from Morrison and Snyder, I can't think of many Batman stories in the 21st century that's considered classics for comics. Most of Batman's most famous stories are decades old at this point and were probably created under the Dennis O'Neil era and from the 1990s.

[Bruce Wayne]

Loeb's stuff like Hush also Under the Hood by Winnick and some of the Rucka/Brubaker stuff following NML and also Dini's run on Detective/Streets of Gotham. Morrison and Snyder is only if you set the bar very high and also single out the most influential Batstories, which naturally means a lot of the serviceable stories get culled by virtue of not being influential and iconic and defining.

[Bruce Wayne]

Only in the current Zdarsky/Ram V era does it feel like Batman’s mainline books aren’t hot.

Batoffice got culled near the end of the Didio era and into covid. Most of the prominent Bateditors under Doyle are either doing Black Label (Conroy) or left (Rich) or something else (Holzherr). The current Bateditors are generally the c/d-list from the previous regime.

Superman meanwhile has suffered badly in that regard in the 21st century. Before the current era of Williamson/PKJ, the Busiek/Johns Pre-Flashpoint era was the last time where both Superman books were worth reading imo of course.

Because the writers are never given a chance. We have had multiple false starts including Morrison/Perez and Tomasi/Jurgens not to mention broken promises (Bendis).

DC under the previous guys constantly changing deckchairs while the ship was sinking. They had a good thing going with Tomasi/Jurgens and blew it up for Bendis/5G.

This is the creative turnover on the Superman ongoings since the start of the Didio era:

Action Comics

Chuck Austen: Action Comics 814 (6/2004)-823(3/2005) - 10 issues
Gail Simone: Action Comics 827 (6/2005)-835(3/2006) - 9 issues
Geoff Johns: Action Comics 837(5/2006)-840(8/2006) - 4 issues
Action Comics 844(12/2006),845,846,851 - 4 issues
Action Comics 855(10/2007)-873 (3/2009) - 19 issues
Rucka/Trautmann: Action Comics 875(3/2009)-889 (6/2010) -15 issues
Paul Cornell: Action Comics 890 (8/2010)-904 (10/2011) - 15 issue

New 52

Grant Morrison: Action Comics 1 (11/2011)-18 (5/2013) + 0 - 19 issues
Andy Diggle/Tony Daniel: Action Comics 19 (7/2013)-21 (9/2013) - 3 issues
Greg Pak: Action Comics 25(1/2014)-50 (5/2016) - 26 issues
Pete Tomasi: Action Comics 51 (6/2016), 52 - 2 issues

Renumbering
Dan Jurgens: Action Comics 957 (8/2016)-1000 (6/2018) - 44 issues - DOUBLE SHIPPING
Brian Bendis: Action Comics 1001 (8/2018)-1028 (2/2021) - 29 issues

Adventures of Superman
Greg Rucka Adventures of Superman 627 (6/2004) - 638 (5/2005) - 12 issues
Adventures of Superman 639 (7/2005) - 648 (3/2006) - 10 issues
Cont as Superman
Kurt Busiek Superman 650 (5/2006) - 675 (6/2008) - 26 issues
James Robinson Superman 677 (8/2008) - 699 (6/2010) - 23 issues
J. Michael Straczynski Superman 700 (8/2010)-705,707,708 (4/2011) - 8 issues
Chris Roberson Superman 709 (5/2011), 710, 711,713,714 (10/2011) - 5 issues

New 52
George Perez Superman 1 (11/2011)-6 (4/2012) - 6 issues
Jurgens/Giffen Superman 7 (5/2012-12 (11/2012) - 6 issues
Scott Lobdell Superman 13 (12/2012)-22,23.3,25-31(7/2014) - 18 issues
Geoff Johns Superman 32 (8/2014) - 39 (5/2015) - 8 issues
Gene Yang Superman 41 (8/2015)-50 (5/2016) - 10 issues
Pete Tomasi Superman 51 (6/2016)-52 (7/2016) - 2 issues

Rebirth
Pete Tomasi/Patrick Gleason Superman 1 (8/2016)-25, 27-28, 33-39, 42-45 (6/2018) - 38 issues - DOUBLE SHIPPING

Relaunch
Brian Bendis Superman 1 (9/2018)-28(2/2021) - 28 issues
Philip Kennedy Johnson Superman 29 (5/2021)-32 (8/2021) - 4 issues

It's been creative chaos for more than a decade either because of Dido or the people above him.

[DABellWrites]

Batoffice got culled near the end of the Didio era and into covid. Most of the prominent Bateditors under Doyle are either doing Black Label (Conroy) or left (Rich) or something else (Holzherr). The current Bateditors are generally the c/d-list from the previous regime.


Because the writers are never given a chance. We have had multiple false starts including Morrison/Perez and Tomasi/Jurgens not to mention broken promises (Bendis).

DC under the previous guys constantly changing deckchairs while the ship was sinking. They had a good thing going with Tomasi/Jurgens and blew it up for Bendis/5G.

This is the creative turnover on the Superman ongoings since the start of the Didio era:

Action Comics




It's been creative chaos for more than a decade either because of Dido or the people above him.

Sad, but true.

Loeb's stuff like Hush also Under the Hood by Winnick and some of the Rucka/Brubaker stuff following NML and also Dini's run on Detective/Streets of Gotham. Morrison and Snyder is only if you set the bar very high and also single out the most influential Batstories, which naturally means a lot of the serviceable stories get culled by virtue of not being influential and iconic and defining.

Okay, yeah, I forgot about Hush and Red Hood. I don't know about Rucka/Brubaker/Dini works. Though I have seen comments about how good the stories are for Rucka, and I did read War on Crime (I don't know if it's a classic though). I thought about at the stories that are routinely on the top selling books, which are Killing Joke, TDKR, sometimes Snyder's Batman, and whatever came out in the 90s (mostly Leob). I only put Morrison's Batman up there because how of much I saw comments and articles stating Morrison's Batman is the best Batman run ever.

[All Star Superman]

I was recently listening to the Midnight Boys, a superhero fandom podcast on the Ringer network.
They uniformly agreed that Batman was the best superhero of our times and that Superman doesn't have the books or modern stories that hold up next to the Bat.

I have a list of my own but most of them are pre-crisis.

Not counting All Star Superman, what are the Superman classics that new fans should read?

My number one:

1. Superman For Tomorrow: Brian Azarello and Jim Lee. I think this story holds up really well and threads the needle with old and new fans.

Thank you for alerting me to this podcast so that I can be sure to avoid it. Batman is my second favorite DC hero after Superman, but I will not listen to anyone who says Batman is "the best superhero of our times." As for answering your question, I often find that the argument made by these podcasters is: "I don't really read much, but (character other than Batman) doesn't have any good modern stories." They then sing the praises of Miller's overrated garbage which is often all they've read. They also don't have the depth of intellect to consider stories that aren't modern, which to them means published in the last twenty or so years.

As a result, they dismiss much of the Silver and Bronze Ages, despite these eras containing the most defining stories of Superman's comic book life. They're often looking for stories that feature Superman as a "badass" because they're too cynical and insecure to allow themselves to appreciate a character that's noble, selfless, compassionate, and generally non-violent. Superman is more a character that saves than fights, despite the recent post-modern deconstructions that focus on a short span of his Golden Age comics to justify making him a brawling thug or a "social crusader."

I'm sure these will be mentioned, but I'll mention them anyway: the Golden, Silver, and Bronze Age reprints (like Superman In The 50s, 60s, 70s, the Superman 75th and 80th anniversary collections, Superman: The Greatest Stories Ever Told, the Sandman saga, to name a few) and post-COIE stories like Time and Time Again!, Panic In The Sky, The Death and Return of Superman, Superman For All Seasons, Superman: Kryptonite by the sadly late Darwyn Cooke and Tim Sale, Superman: Birthright, Superman: Strength, Superman Adventures, Man and Superman by Marv Wolfman, Superman: Man of Tomorrow and Superman '78 by Robert Venditti, Geoff Johns' Action run, especially Superman and The Legion of Superheroes and Brainiac, Morrison's Action Comics run, Jeph Loeb's Superman run, the Action and Superman titles during Rebirth, and Superman: Secret Identity.

[Vakanai]

Superman Smashes the Klan is in my opinion the best Superman story there is, I love it to pieces. It's the first book I would recommend to anyone interested in Superman. It's also one of the first books I'd recommend to anyone just interested in comics period, it's really just that good. It's my number one recommendations here by leaps and bounds over tall buildings.

Superman: Birthright is pretty incredible, probably his best origin story, and just a darn good book overall.

Man and Superman I feel is pretty underappreciated for how great it was. While Birthright is the better origin overall, Man and Superman feels like the best "Clark's first days in Metropolis" story you could ask for.