Does Spider-Man need a soft-reboot at this point?

[The Twilight Mexican]

Maybe it's because of MCU'S NWH, but I feel like Dr. Strange would be a clean vehicle to undo some of these plots. In recent times, he also had a marriage stripped from him by Mephisto, which I believe he successfully wrangled back. There's precedent there. It might be fun to have an event comic where issue #0 is him doing some sorcery shenanigans and he realizes that, very cleverly and carefully hidden, there's a mark on Peter's otherwise pure soul that denotes him as having made a deal with the devil, which Doc would of course immediately begin investigating because why would Spider-Man of all people have made a pact with evil?

This was literally the plot of Nick Spencer's run on the book. Dr. Strange confronted Mephisto and even took Pete's allies into an astral realm to do battle with the OMD demons attached to his soul.

Then editorial realized that Spencer really was trying to address OMD and kneecapped his storyline in what is possibly the most obvious case of editorial interference ever published.

[Shunt]

This was literally the plot of Nick Spencer's run on the book. Dr. Strange confronted Mephisto and even took Pete's allies into an astral realm to do battle with the OMD demons attached to his soul.

Then editorial realized that Spencer really was trying to address OMD and kneecapped his storyline in what is possibly the most obvious case of editorial interference ever published.

Boy, I really crave for an interview with Spencer spilling the beans... pretty sure there must be some sort of NDA, though.

[Spider-Tiger]

Believe it or not, Across the Spider-verse actually handed them a great way to reverse One More Day in the comics.

[bat39]

Okay, let's say we just totally erase everything from OMD until now. How do you explain the last 15 years? Just didn't happen? Peter never particiapted in any major events or any of the crossovers with Spider-man other books had are no longer in canon? What about characters introduced like Carlie and Silk? Does Miles know Peter, or would they have to meet all over again? If certain things DID still happen, what certain things, and why? If you hit the undo button, it's not just as clean and simple as you think.

It's already messy. If you think about "One More Day" and its changes, the whole timeline falls apart like a house of cards. Nobody has been consistent about what "counted" and what "doesn't". Quesada said the pregnancy didn't happen, but then multiple writers made references to it. Time was rewritten so the marriage was missed, and MJ was so upset she didn't go through with it, but then they supposed lived together and did everything they did as a married couple anyway? Mephisto just snapped some wedding photos out of existence? And as the events go closer to Civil War ordeal, it was never explained how they then just... didn't go through those events together and wound up separated with different lives? And that doesn't take into consider all the events that really hinged on the marriage and were driven as marital choices. They wanted their cake and to eat it too and it just never made sense, so most writers just ignored all that mess and asked us to not think about it too hard. Except they've now inferred things like Mayday being the key to stopping Mephisto in the future, Doctor Strange finding out Peter's soul has been "tampered" with, characters who died during the marriage who came back after OMD not remembering, Mayday and Annie crossing over into the Spider-verse and Peter not realizing the timelines were rewritten, etc.

It's such a mess. As Looper's site said, it's an albatross around every story they do. It's why even now folks are going "is Mephisto doing this still?". It's an answer they've avoided because they hoped we'd stop asking the questions. Just pretend it's truly a 'brand new day" and erase your thirty year history with the relationships and growth, but it "still all counts" but doesn't and...

... and it's not going to get ever get better until they address it head-on with a good story.

Few ways they can address things, off the top of my head...

1. Nothing really changes in terms of the timeline. But Peter and MJ learn about their marriage and the deal with Mephisto. Maybe they (and possibly those closest to them, who are in the know regarding Peter being Spider-Man) get back their memories of the original timeline. Peter and MJ are back together now, and have a 'new' marriage (which they personally treat as more of a vow renewal). Done.

2. The timeline is altered again. The marriage is back. And then, sometime around Civil War, Peter and MJ got separated/divorced. And now they get back together. Functionally, apart from them once being married and then divorced, nothing much changes.

3. The marriage being erased by the Devil, and then restored, is part of the timeline and becomes one of those weird things that happen to people in the MU. Picture a scene (borderline played for laughs) where Peter and MJ appear before the court, with She-Hulk arguing their case. The judge pretty much shrugs ("Oh great...another one of those!"), and declares the marriage valid again, ignoring then Devil-induced separation in the middle.

4. Okay this one is a lot more complicated and more of a 'reboot' in the classic sense. Basically, when Mephisto messed with time to undo the marriage, he fractured the timeline and created two Peters and MJ's on parallel branches of reality - one where they're married and continue their married life post-Civil War (potentially in a reality where Peter's identity stayed public and Aunt May was dead), and the other where they weren't married, which is what we've been following the last 15 years. Due to some cosmic shenanigans, married Peter and MJ return to the 'main' 616 timeline. Either the two timelines merge, or the single Peter and MJ die and/or are shunted off to another reality (maybe we can have a book with 'single' Spider-Man set in this reality). Depending on the mechanics, this may or may not be a way to introduce a young Mayday Parker.

Options 1-3 allow us to preserve the last 15 years in 616, while Option 4 does kind of have a provision to excise them from the 'main' 616 continuity, while potentially allowing them to exist in another reality.

[clonegeek]

Few ways they can address things, off the top of my head...

1. Nothing really changes in terms of the timeline. But Peter and MJ learn about their marriage and the deal with Mephisto. Maybe they (and possibly those closest to them, who are in the know regarding Peter being Spider-Man) get back their memories of the original timeline. Peter and MJ are back together now, and have a 'new' marriage (which they personally treat as more of a vow renewal). Done.

2. The timeline is altered again. The marriage is back. And then, sometime around Civil War, Peter and MJ got separated/divorced. And now they get back together. Functionally, apart from them once being married and then divorced, nothing much changes.

3. The marriage being erased by the Devil, and then restored, is part of the timeline and becomes one of those weird things that happen to people in the MU. Picture a scene (borderline played for laughs) where Peter and MJ appear before the court, with She-Hulk arguing their case. The judge pretty much shrugs ("Oh great...another one of those!"), and declares the marriage valid again, ignoring then Devil-induced separation in the middle.

4. Okay this one is a lot more complicated and more of a 'reboot' in the classic sense. Basically, when Mephisto messed with time to undo the marriage, he fractured the timeline and created two Peters and MJ's on parallel branches of reality - one where they're married and continue their married life post-Civil War (potentially in a reality where Peter's identity stayed public and Aunt May was dead), and the other where they weren't married, which is what we've been following the last 15 years. Due to some cosmic shenanigans, married Peter and MJ return to the 'main' 616 timeline. Either the two timelines merge, or the single Peter and MJ die and/or are shunted off to another reality (maybe we can have a book with 'single' Spider-Man set in this reality). Depending on the mechanics, this may or may not be a way to introduce a young Mayday Parker.

Options 1-3 allow us to preserve the last 15 years in 616, while Option 4 does kind of have a provision to excise them from the 'main' 616 continuity, while potentially allowing them to exist in another reality.

I've had a similar idea to 4. Basically using the Biweekly model of ASM and having one of the issues be the single Peter while the other issue features the married one.

[Blanks]

They should call the next soft-boot as “Just another Day”, lol

[Purple]

This was literally the plot of Nick Spencer's run on the book. Dr. Strange confronted Mephisto and even took Pete's allies into an astral realm to do battle with the OMD demons attached to his soul.

Then editorial realized that Spencer really was trying to address OMD and kneecapped his storyline in what is possibly the most obvious case of editorial interference ever published.

I completely forgot about that… whoops. My bad

[Celgress]

Boy, I really crave for an interview with Spencer spilling the beans... pretty sure there must be some sort of NDA, though.

Same here, but from what I hear I doubt he'll do that he's too much of a professional. Maybe several years from now someone in the know will come forward and give us a "Life of Reilly" type exposé. *crosses fingers*

[Huntsman Spider]

Well, I don't mean Chat in particular rather I mean I'd love to see this type of supportive mutual trust romantic relationship in Modern 616 Spidey for a (much needed) change. I'm sick of the third-wheel Pauls and Carlies of the comic world, the OOC whining and blaming Peter on the part of MJ (and others) for being Spider-Man, and the general on-again off-again misery merry-go-round.

With you there.

A House of X style revelation could be interesting.

One potential twist would be that One More Day wasn't the last time Mephisto changed history for Peter.

Didn't Nick Spencer already do that near the end of his run, in a way, with the revelation that Norman Osborn made his own deal, however unwittingly, with Mephisto years before he ever became the Green Goblin?

[The Twilight Mexican]

Didn't Nick Spencer already do that near the end of his run, in a way, with the revelation that Norman Osborn made his own deal, however unwittingly, with Mephisto years before he ever became the Green Goblin?

Indeed. For all the not wanting to address the deal Pete made with him, they've made Mephisto the central villain of the Spidey mythos between the taking his marriage and daughter; doing additional deals with several of the other Spiders (Miles, Ben, and Otto); and now his creation of the Green Goblin -- with all that Norman has then done to Peter as an agent of Mephisto. And then there's the stuff with Harry ...

How do you establish this dude as the Spider-mythos nemesis time and again for 15 years but balk at the notion of redressing OMD? And leave Spider-Man completely out of that giant Mephisto event over in the Avengers books?

[Huntsman Spider]

Indeed. For all the not wanting to address the deal Pete made with him, they've made Mephisto the central villain of the Spidey mythos between the taking his marriage and daughter; doing additional deals with several of the other Spiders (Miles, Ben, and Otto); and now his creation of the Green Goblin -- with all that Norman has then done to Peter as an agent of Mephisto. And then there's the stuff with Harry ...

How do you establish this dude as the Spider-mythos nemesis time and again for 15 years but balk at the notion of redressing OMD? And leave Spider-Man completely out of that giant Mephisto event over in the Avengers books?

Yeah, it sounds like a real s***storm.

[Jman27]

Indeed. For all the not wanting to address the deal Pete made with him, they've made Mephisto the central villain of the Spidey mythos between the taking his marriage and daughter; doing additional deals with several of the other Spiders (Miles, Ben, and Otto); and now his creation of the Green Goblin -- with all that Norman has then done to Peter as an agent of Mephisto. And then there's the stuff with Harry ...

How do you establish this dude as the Spider-mythos nemesis time and again for 15 years but balk at the notion of redressing OMD? And leave Spider-Man completely out of that giant Mephisto event over in the Avengers books?

probably wasnt an Avenger during that time or was probably on the bench. Hes too popular for the Avengers

[clonegeek]

Indeed. For all the not wanting to address the deal Pete made with him, they've made Mephisto the central villain of the Spidey mythos between the taking his marriage and daughter; doing additional deals with several of the other Spiders (Miles, Ben, and Otto); and now his creation of the Green Goblin -- with all that Norman has then done to Peter as an agent of Mephisto. And then there's the stuff with Harry ...

How do you establish this dude as the Spider-mythos nemesis time and again for 15 years but balk at the notion of redressing OMD? And leave Spider-Man completely out of that giant Mephisto event over in the Avengers books?

There is some really meat to the Mephisto thing, that you could easly turn into a whole event just centered around Peter going into Hell to fight Mephisto.

[WebLurker]

Few ways they can address things, off the top of my head...

1. Nothing really changes in terms of the timeline. But Peter and MJ learn about their marriage and the deal with Mephisto. Maybe they (and possibly those closest to them, who are in the know regarding Peter being Spider-Man) get back their memories of the original timeline. Peter and MJ are back together now, and have a 'new' marriage (which they personally treat as more of a vow renewal). Done.

Think that would be the best. Part of the problem with OMD was how it invalidated years' worth of stories just to get a preferred status quo. It would also tie back to their promising at the end of the original OMD mini that they would find each other again somehow (pretty sure that was just to string along the fans, but, overall, it would mean that the story actually meant something retroactively instead of just being a mandate in comic book form to explain the reboot).

2. The timeline is altered again. The marriage is back. And then, sometime around Civil War, Peter and MJ got separated/divorced. And now they get back together. Functionally, apart from them once being married and then divorced, nothing much changes.

Too messy IMHO and basically OMD in reverse (continuity confusion over what counts or doesn't count anymore). Might was well just do option 1.

3. The marriage being erased by the Devil, and then restored, is part of the timeline and becomes one of those weird things that happen to people in the MU. Picture a scene (borderline played for laughs) where Peter and MJ appear before the court, with She-Hulk arguing their case. The judge pretty much shrugs ("Oh great...another one of those!"), and declares the marriage valid again, ignoring then Devil-induced separation in the middle.

Kinda like that idea. Given how the OMD-verse has been dominated by the real-life issues surrounding the writing since the very beginning (creators vs. fans over whether the fact that Spider-Man's character development included marrying Mary Jane was a good thing or not), having the comics take a meta approach could be interesting (esp. since that's kinda the only thing such a comic would be about).

4. Okay this one is a lot more complicated and more of a 'reboot' in the classic sense. Basically, when Mephisto messed with time to undo the marriage, he fractured the timeline and created two Peters and MJ's on parallel branches of reality - one where they're married and continue their married life post-Civil War (potentially in a reality where Peter's identity stayed public and Aunt May was dead), and the other where they weren't married, which is what we've been following the last 15 years. Due to some cosmic shenanigans, married Peter and MJ return to the 'main' 616 timeline. Either the two timelines merge, or the single Peter and MJ die and/or are shunted off to another reality (maybe we can have a book with 'single' Spider-Man set in this reality). Depending on the mechanics, this may or may not be a way to introduce a young Mayday Parker.

Like the idea in as much that it would mean that the original Spider-Man wasn't erased by his OMD-verse variant and would mean a "true" continuation of the original comics vs. us following a "copy" Spider-Man like we have since 2007. Doubt Marvel would do this, partially since I think they view the OMD-verse Spider-Man as being the original one, logic problems to the contrary (like how part of the point of the OMD-verse is they're erasing parts of the character's life to make it something new).

Options 1-3 allow us to preserve the last 15 years in 616, while Option 4 does kind of have a provision to excise them from the 'main' 616 continuity, while potentially allowing them to exist in another reality.[/QUOTE]

[bat39]

Think that would be the best. Part of the problem with OMD was how it invalidated years' worth of stories just to get a preferred status quo. It would also tie back to their promising at the end of the original OMD mini that they would find each other again somehow (pretty sure that was just to string along the fans, but, overall, it would mean that the story actually meant something retroactively instead of just being a mandate in comic book form to explain the reboot).



Too messy IMHO and basically OMD in reverse (continuity confusion over what counts or doesn't count anymore). Might was well just do option 1.



Kinda like that idea. Given how the OMD-verse has been dominated by the real-life issues surrounding the writing since the very beginning (creators vs. fans over whether the fact that Spider-Man's character development included marrying Mary Jane was a good thing or not), having the comics take a meta approach could be interesting (esp. since that's kinda the only thing such a comic would be about).



Like the idea in as much that it would mean that the original Spider-Man wasn't erased by his OMD-verse variant and would mean a "true" continuation of the original comics vs. us following a "copy" Spider-Man like we have since 2007. Doubt Marvel would do this, partially since I think they view the OMD-verse Spider-Man as being the original one, logic problems to the contrary (like how part of the point of the OMD-verse is they're erasing parts of the character's life to make it something new).

Thanks for your feedback.

While I do believe that Option 4 could be an interesting and viable option (which is why I suggested it, lol), it does have the potential to spark some divisiveness in the fandom (and probably among the creators too), because you'd literally be claiming that one Peter and MJ are the "real" ones and the other set we've been following for the past 15 years are "copies" or "variants". In a certain sense, it'd basically be akin to the Clone Saga where you claim that the guy who's been headlining the books for a while isn't the "real" one. And consequently, it invalidates or throws out a lot of the new mythology and characters that were introduced during that period (or at least, makes it confusing as hell to acknowledge it).

I included Option 4 because I do think Superman Reborn can serve as an inspiration for the Spider-Man franchise, and this approach is technically closest to what DC did. But it's a fact that Superman Reborn literally jettisoned the New 52 Superman and replaced him with the Post-Crisis version, declaring the latter as the "real" Superman of the "fixed" timeline (with the New 52 itself as a corruption of the DCU). A lot of fans, especially those on here, embraced it, but it did alienate quite a few newer fans who came on board with the New 52 Superman, or who generally enjoyed the more Golden Age/Silver Age-esq status quo of a younger, single Superman. But with DC, this is kinda par for the course - you have multiple conflicting versions of characters and TPTB need to pick one to be the 'main' version.

Marvel's approach to continuity is totally different. Even when it comes to OMD/BND, their argument is that this is the one, true Peter and MJ whose lives Mephisto tampered with. So while on a technical level, 'splitting' Spider-Man into two would make sense, it does kinda go against the spirit of Spider-Man being the same guy we've been following in an unbroken line since 1962. That said, its not like Marvel hasn't done weird timeline-related stuff to characters before (whatever they did to Tony Stark in the late 90's which I honestly just don't understand, for instance )

So I dunno...this one needs a bit more thought.