Immortal X-men #12 Preview

[Devaishwarya]

True.

I'm placing my money on old efficiency steeped in experience denaturing the atomic bomb, though.

[Outburstz]

I swear if they kill Selene again I am going to lose it

[PyroFN]

If you had posted the beginning of their fight, you'd see that the first panel we see of it is Hope attacking Exodus and calling him "Judas". She then tells Storm that they're fighting because Exodus saw what happened in the future but he still wants them to work together. She's explicitly, on the page, blaming him for the future actions of an AU version of himself. That's ridiculous, and if anyone else had attacked a colleague/friend over things they hadn't even done, I'd think the same about them.

My accusation is that Exodus is harassing Hope. Not assaulting her. That did not need to entail I show the beginning, but since you want to imply that I am omitting info, here:





Does that look like the beginning of the fight, because it looks like Hope and Exodus are in mid-fight. Her calling him a Judas does not infer she sought him out, it merely infers betrayal on Exodus’s part, which is based around a future they both believe in. Not just Hope. Both Exodus and literally everyone else. Hope’s actions do not spell her as the problem in this situation if her goal is to get him to stay away.

Even if Hope did start the fight, she and even you yourself make it clear it’s because he is trying to work together with Hope when she wants him to stay away. Even if you want to argue Hope made the wrong choice attacking him, you can’t go around saying she is the problem of this situation off the sheer fact that she believes in a future that everyone else believes in. I repeat, that’s hypocrisy because this same issue is perpetrated by literally everyone aware of that alternate timeline. Not just Hope.

And if the man you don’t want following you around is being relentless, despite your efforts to keep away from him, you can expect her to do everything she can to get him away. She was clearly pissed and horrified with what she saw in that future. Exodus should not have approached her in that state, no matter how irrational you think Hope is being.

And to be plain, even if those are the actions of an alt version, Hope still has reason to be at the very least wary of Exodus, since it’s been made clear that those are all the actions of their worst possible selves. Not Sinister personalities. If that is Exodus’s darkest part manifested in an alt future, then Hope has the right to at least distance herself until she is certain that his actions were completely not his own. And that man is following her while she still did not trust him. As far as I am concerned, that’s about as rational as one can get. I will allot Hope might have gone a bit extreme, but again, she is not in the best emotional state, which I made clear numerous times, and Exodus has taken far worse before. It’s not the gravest insult what she did and she is not the odd one out in believing in a future when it’s the exact reason everyone in that issue is pissed at each other.

She could have just said no. At the end of the day her life experience or her age or nothing else really matters when the point was she did assault Exodus unprovoked. Exodus could be chanting their names and she should have just walked away if we are going to use the violin music story. She blamed him for something he didn't do and acted like she did nothing. The only regret we know she felt was from Storm's assumptions and in the same issue Storm chose Piotr for her proxy so yeah... No way she could know Pete is brainwashed and no way she could know how hope really felt or was thinking just like she obviously couldn't tell destiny was still lying or not to thank Mr. Righteous on behalf of everyone.

She literally did say no. That’s the entire reason why she is attacking.

I am not endorsing Hope should always attack someone who upsets her. But I also don’t believe she should ever have to put up with someone constantly seeking her out after she has told them multiple times to stay away.



Clear enough? Or should Hope start putting up signs and start lobbying to the Council that they should put up a legal system for restraining orders toward her colleagues?

And I am not even saying them criticizing Hope for attacking Exodus is the issue. I am saying the issue is that they are unfairly being hypocritical by judging Hope for reacting to an alt future the same exact way the rest of the characters are. Not a single person is defending any of the four, Storm is literally pissed and judging them for those actions, Emma is self-defensive using the actions of that future’s Storm, and they are all feeling guilt over actions they never committed.

But Hope is the one singled out? I don’t know if it’s their own bias toward familiar/favorite characters, them disliking younger characters, or just them not liking Hope Summers in particular, but them having taking the position of Hope being the jerk for acting no differently than literally everyone else there is extremely unfair and, I cannot stres this enough, hypocritical.

[PyroFN]

Double post deleted

[PyroFN]

I swear if they kill Selene again I am going to lose it

I wonder if the outcry for Selene’s death caused this return. Not that I think Gillen hates Selene or did not plan for her return. I just want to know the writer’s reactions to the fandom getting pissed over Selene’s death, which is a good thing because it means investment in their book.

[Devaishwarya]

I doubt creators react that strongly to the negativity they see/read online. They may feel the sting of it but I don't think any of them are going to significantly change the course of their stories because of it. And besides...plots are decided long in advance and any changes that have to be made has to get the approval of their editors first. The writers don't have as much autonomy over the process as some of us might believe.

Selene's return seemed like it was planned long in advance...just exactly for that moment of surprise (for the readers) and shock (for the QC).

[JB]

I doubt creators react that strongly to the negativity they see/read online. They may feel the sting of it but I don't think any of them are going to significantly change the course of their stories because of it. And besides...plots are decided long in advance and any changes that have to be made has to get the approval of their editors first. The writers don't have as much autonomy over the process as some of us might believe.

Selene's return seemed like it was planned long in advance...just exactly for that moment of surprise (for the readers) and shock (for the QC).

Agreed. I believe Gillen said he had year one mapped out well in advance. Writers will also do something controversial with a character knowing it'll prompt a strong reaction from the fans, with the knowledge that "fixing" it later will prompt a new strong reaction.

[ETMike1988]

Agreed. I believe Gillen said he had year one mapped out well in advance. Writers will also do something controversial with a character knowing it'll prompt a strong reaction from the fans, with the knowledge that "fixing" it later will prompt a new strong reaction.

Let's just ask Kamala Khan about it!
Oh wait...
She is busy being dead...

[JB]

Let's just ask Kamala Khan about it!
Oh wait...
She is busy being dead...

LOL. Exactly.

[Uncanny X-Man]

If Gillen is indeed adding Selene to the regular cast, I'm curious how he's going to write her. We obviously had a taste in issue 1 but I would be keen to read an entire issue focused on her.

I don't think I'd like her to be "Sinisterized": sarcasm and a few quips are fine but I'd like something more akin to Claremont's original characterization or better still Kyle/Yost's wonderful, terrifying Selene from their X-Force run. The way she speaks should have the formality and gravitas of Apocalypse or Magneto rather than Sinister, Sebastian Shaw or even Destiny.

[jwatson]

My accusation is that Exodus is harassing Hope. Not assaulting her. That did not need to entail I show the beginning, but since you want to imply that I am omitting info, here:





Does that look like the beginning of the fight, because it looks like Hope and Exodus are in mid-fight. Her calling him a Judas does not infer she sought him out, it merely infers betrayal on Exodus’s part, which is based around a future they both believe in. Not just Hope. Both Exodus and literally everyone else. Hope’s actions do not spell her as the problem in this situation if her goal is to get him to stay away.

Even if Hope did start the fight, she and even you yourself make it clear it’s because he is trying to work together with Hope when she wants him to stay away. Even if you want to argue Hope made the wrong choice attacking him, you can’t go around saying she is the problem of this situation off the sheer fact that she believes in a future that everyone else believes in. I repeat, that’s hypocrisy because this same issue is perpetrated by literally everyone aware of that alternate timeline. Not just Hope.

And if the man you don’t want following you around is being relentless, despite your efforts to keep away from him, you can expect her to do everything she can to get him away. She was clearly pissed and horrified with what she saw in that future. Exodus should not have approached her in that state, no matter how irrational you think Hope is being.

And to be plain, even if those are the actions of an alt version, Hope still has reason to be at the very least wary of Exodus, since it’s been made clear that those are all the actions of their worst possible selves. Not Sinister personalities. If that is Exodus’s darkest part manifested in an alt future, then Hope has the right to at least distance herself until she is certain that his actions were completely not his own. And that man is following her while she still did not trust him. As far as I am concerned, that’s about as rational as one can get. I will allot Hope might have gone a bit extreme, but again, she is not in the best emotional state, which I made clear numerous times, and Exodus has taken far worse before. It’s not the gravest insult what she did and she is not the odd one out in believing in a future when it’s the exact reason everyone in that issue is pissed at each other.



She literally did say no. That’s the entire reason why she is attacking.

I am not endorsing Hope should always attack someone who upsets her. But I also don’t believe she should ever have to put up with someone constantly seeking her out after she has told them multiple times to stay away.



Clear enough? Or should Hope start putting up signs and start lobbying to the Council that they should put up a legal system for restraining orders toward her colleagues?

And I am not even saying them criticizing Hope for attacking Exodus is the issue. I am saying the issue is that they are unfairly being hypocritical by judging Hope for reacting to an alt future the same exact way the rest of the characters are. Not a single person is defending any of the four, Storm is literally pissed and judging them for those actions, Emma is self-defensive using the actions of that future’s Storm, and they are all feeling guilt over actions they never committed.

But Hope is the one singled out? I don’t know if it’s their own bias toward familiar/favorite characters, them disliking younger characters, or just them not liking Hope Summers in particular, but them having taking the position of Hope being the jerk for acting no differently than literally everyone else there is extremely unfair and, I cannot stres this enough, hypocritical.

Except not everyone is acting like Hope. No one else attacked anyone because of what happened in the future. Storm was stabbed by destiny, all of them went through torture because destiny chose to keep the future going to keep mystique alive. What happened between the panels one can't really say definitively so i will give you that but at the same time Exodus is in a position of non violence with his hands and next hope is calling him a judas and attacking him. From Judas it sounds like hope isn't even mad at what she did she is actually mad exodus ended up betraying her and that is why she attacked him from the panel you posted. She didn't say "stop following me!" which would have made it more clear that was the reason she was attacking exodus. So not all of them are in the same position because Hope is the only one acting the way she is. The rest of that i'm not going to touch but people maybe not liking hope and that informing their position is no different than you posting about all hope has been through her entire life to make this moment "okay"when it's not to inform your opinion.

What would actually be hypocritical is if Selene waxed poetic on hope and Exodus by killing them and people were all like "Selene had no right."

[Devaishwarya]

Agreed. I believe Gillen said he had year one mapped out well in advance. Writers will also do something controversial with a character knowing it'll prompt a strong reaction from the fans, with the knowledge that "fixing" it later will prompt a new strong reaction.

Exactatiously.

[JB]

In one of the other preview pages that was released earlier it looks like Exodus may be giving Hope the cold shoulder. I'm very interested in what's being said.



The main takeaway from the Hope/Exodus scene for me was that it lightly mirrored what happened in Sins, with Hope disregarding those that look up to her as the messiah and choosing violence. I think Gillen was smart to include the moment when Storm reminds her that people are watching. That was magnified and twisted in Sins when she treated her followers poorly and went around exploding planets. It's an impulse I think she has to watch out for and Gillen is being deliberate in highlighting that.

[jwatson]

In one of the other preview pages that was released earlier it looks like Exodus may be giving Hope the cold shoulder. I'm very interested in what's being said.



The main takeaway from the Hope/Exodus scene for me was that it lightly mirrored what happened in Sins, with Hope disregarding those that look up to her as the messiah and choosing violence. I think Gillen was smart to include the moment when Storm reminds her that people are watching. That was magnified and twisted in Sins when she treated her followers poorly and went around exploding planets. It's an impulse I think she has to watch out for and Gillen is being deliberate in highlighting that.

Oh my, Hope is following someone that doesn't seem to want to talk to her. surely not. ^_^ Hopefully Exodus doesn't lay hands. I'm sure he must be feeling quite betrayed himself right now.

[JB]

Oh my, Hope is following someone that doesn't seem to want to talk to her. surely not. ^_^ Hopefully Exodus doesn't lay hands. I'm sure he must be feeling quite betrayed himself right now.

I love how it looks like they're backstage in a green room on Maury lol