Immortal X-men #12 Preview

[Til]

Oh god. Another dumb take. Let’s analyze exactly what happened. Take a look at what Hope tells Exodus in the second to last panel.



“Stay away. I’m not your messiah. You’re not a church.”

Huh, sounds like someone was following her relentlessly to absolve his own guilt. At least give the gal some space to figure her own crap out. Assuming Hope is even around college age and not still a teen at this point, which she might still be depending on how the sliding timescale works in the comics, Hope would still be in that emotional age where she has yet to fully know how to handle her own feelings as an adult. Not in the sense of hormones, but in the sense of experience and seeing what it does. In essence, she has yet to mature fully, yet she is mature enough to be on the council due to her being forced into the role of a mutant messiah by destiny (as in fate and prophecy, not the mutant).

She has to grow-up too fast to deal with screwed up things, including facing the depths of darkness she had never thought existed until Storm and Rasputin showed her that alt timeline. She does not need a grown man perpetrating that destiny on her with all the pressure that comes with it to beg for forgiveness. The bastard is acting like he was at fault anyways. So was Storm acting like they were all at fault with her,

“That’s what I was moping to see from them. Remorse. A prospect of change.”

And Emma with her,

“And what were you doing? We were compromised. You weren’t, yet you let it go on for five whole years!”

But Hope is the one that is being called out? Screw that. That’s hypocrisy at its finest and is ignoring the fundamental fact the man is not leaving a young girl alone when she is clearly telling him to stay the hell away. More than once in fact, since she outright tells him after seeing that Sins of Sinister timeline. This fight they have is the second time on-panel, with an inference from Hope that she has to tell him more than that by her stating “Stay Away”.

If you had posted the beginning of their fight, you'd see that the first panel we see of it is Hope attacking Exodus and calling him "Judas". She then tells Storm that they're fighting because Exodus saw what happened in the future but he still wants them to work together. She's explicitly, on the page, blaming him for the future actions of an AU version of himself. That's ridiculous, and if anyone else had attacked a colleague/friend over things they hadn't even done, I'd think the same about them.

[jwatson]

Oh god. Another dumb take. Let’s analyze exactly what happened. Take a look at what Hope tells Exodus in the second to last panel.



“Stay away. I’m not your messiah. You’re not a church.”

Huh, sounds like someone was following her relentlessly to absolve his own guilt. At least give the gal some space to figure her own crap out. Assuming Hope is even around college age and not still a teen at this point, which she might still be depending on how the sliding timescale works in the comics, Hope would still be in that emotional age where she has yet to fully know how to handle her own feelings as an adult. Not in the sense of hormones, but in the sense of experience and seeing what it does. In essence, she has yet to mature fully, yet she is mature enough to be on the council due to her being forced into the role of a mutant messiah by destiny (as in fate and prophecy, not the mutant).

She has to grow-up too fast to deal with screwed up things, including facing the depths of darkness she had never thought existed until Storm and Rasputin showed her that alt timeline. She does not need a grown man perpetrating that destiny on her with all the pressure that comes with it to beg for forgiveness. The bastard is acting like he was at fault anyways. So was Storm acting like they were all at fault with her,

“That’s what I was moping to see from them. Remorse. A prospect of change.”

And Emma with her,

“And what were you doing? We were compromised. You weren’t, yet you let it go on for five whole years!”

But Hope is the one that is being called out? Screw that. That’s hypocrisy at its finest and is ignoring the fundamental fact the man is not leaving a young girl alone when she is clearly telling him to stay the hell away. More than once in fact, since she outright tells him after seeing that Sins of Sinister timeline. This fight they have is the second time on-panel, with an inference from Hope that she has to tell him more than that by her stating “Stay Away”.

She could have just said no. At the end of the day her life experience or her age or nothing else really matters when the point was she did assault Exodus unprovoked. Exodus could be chanting their names and she should have just walked away if we are going to use the violin music story. She blamed him for something he didn't do and acted like she did nothing. The only regret we know she felt was from Storm's assumptions and in the same issue Storm chose Piotr for her proxy so yeah... No way she could know Pete is brainwashed and no way she could know how hope really felt or was thinking just like she obviously couldn't tell destiny was still lying or not to thank Mr. Righteous on behalf of everyone.

[alanyoung909]

Resurrecting Selene and electing her onto the Quiet Council was probably one of the motions that Mother Righteous gave Shaw to pass last issue.
If we recall IXM 6, Selene was working with Mother Righteous long before Sebastian Shaw started working with her.
The Quiet Council slips out of the jaws of one Nathaniel Essex clone and leaps into another.

The Quiet Council at the end of IXM 11:

[AUTUMN]
1. PROFESSOR X – 0
2. HOPE – 0
3. DESTINY – 1

[WINTER]
4. (/) – 1
5. EXODUS – 0
6. MYSTIQUE – 1

[SPRING]
7. KATE PRYDE – 1
8. EMMA FROST – 0
9. SEBASTIAN SHAW – 1

[SUMMER]
10. NIGHTCRAWLER – 1 (Proxy: Storm)
11. COLOSSUS – 1
12. STORM – 1 (Proxy: Colossus)

[ADJUNCT]
13. CYPHER - 0
14. KRAKOA - VETO

Supposing Selene does get elected onto the First Winter Seat in this issue:

Mother Righteous has influence over 3 votes (Selene Gallio, Sebastian Shaw, Mystique).
If the proxies remain as they are, Mikhail Rasputin has influence over 3 votes (Colossus, Storm, Nightcrawler).
Destiny has 1 vote.
Kate Pryde has 1 vote.
Professor X, Hope, Exodus and Emma Frost have 0 votes.
Krakoa has a Veto vote.

[Sutekh]

if the QC stays around after this we need to expand the size of it, instead of just changing the seats every other day it'd be much better to add people to the council.

There is literally no reason at all that the same telepathic consensus vote technique used by Jean to elect the new X-Men every year couldn't be used as a form of direct democracy to totally replace the Council. Any time a big decision needs to be made, she, or one of the other thirty odd telepaths on the island, links everyone up who has a mental minute to spare on voting on the issue, after downloading a precis of the issue-of-the-minute into their heads (so nobody even has the excuse of making an uninformed or misinformed vote).

There'd still be plenty of room for politicking as well. People on either side of the issue could bargain for their own personal appeals to be included in the precis update, to convince groups of voters to vote this way or that way. Democracy, even direct democracy, doesn't have to be *perfect,* and can have ugly bits (like an uninformed or misinformed or just plain antisocial electorate). But that might be a little too tender of a subject, given the way 'fake news' has affected (or been perceived to affect( recent elections. :/

It's a mutant nation. Long past time for some mutant government.

[RAWRlrus]

If the Selene votes goes through, is it even possible for Emma, Xaiver, Hope and Exodus to get their votes back? Assuming Piotr is freed from the Chronicler it seems like a 4 to 4 vote on that front.

[Til]

If the Selene votes goes through, is it even possible for Emma, Xaiver, Hope and Exodus to get their votes back? Assuming Piotr is freed from the Chronicler it seems like a 4 to 4 vote on that front.

I doubt Storm would let Colossus still be her proxy after this. She's still on the Council after all, they just did it on a day they knew she would be busy elsewhere, most likely the Great Ring on Arakko. As soon as she gets back and sees what happened, I imagine she'll immediately take her's and Kurt's votes back and name Kate her proxy.

EDIT: I misread what you posted. You already accounted for Colossus not having their votes anymore. Sorry about that.

[cranger]

If the Selene votes goes through, is it even possible for Emma, Xaiver, Hope and Exodus to get their votes back? Assuming Piotr is freed from the Chronicler it seems like a 4 to 4 vote on that front.

We have no idea how they even lost their votes. That could be where the story goes and I think this is all going to resolve disastrously much sooner than later. Colossus made a deal and it seems we have only seen what Shaw is getting out of it.

[RAWRlrus]

I doubt Storm would let Colossus still be her proxy after this. She's still on the Council after all, they just did it on a day they knew she would be busy elsewhere, most likely the Great Ring on Arakko. As soon as she gets back and sees what happened, I imagine she'll immediately take her's and Kurt's votes back and name Kate her proxy.

EDIT: I misread what you posted. You already accounted for Colossus not having their votes anymore. Sorry about that.

Your comment made me wonder, could Storm have split the proxies? Give Kurt's to someone and hers to another? Its irrelevant at this point as Piotricler has made his move, but maybe before or afterwards.

We have no idea how they even lost their votes. That could be where the story goes and I think this is all going to resolve disastrously much sooner than later. Colossus made a deal and it seems we have only seen what Shaw is getting out of it.

We don't and that makes it curious. It had to have been a vote because while Storm announced it she doesn't have the power to strip their votes. But whether the vote was such that they automatically get their votes back once they can be sure there's no more Sinister in them or if it was assumed that they would have another vote to give it back once the proof was there. I'm glad it's not getting ignored but between the Immortal #13 solicit and Fall of X coming up I think it will be resolved very soon.

[Nicoclaws]

I haven't read Sons of X yet. Why didn't Kurt actually resign, so to give someone a chance at mitigate the Council ?

[Harasar]

From in-universe point of view it is very strange what Kurt and Ororo gave their voices to others, instead of just stepping down from the Council so what someone else can become a full-time member and be always there. Even if Colossus was normal, he would still have three voices and I don't think he would vote like: "With my voice I vote yes, and Kurt would have probably also supported it, so also yes with his voice, but I think Storm would have been against it, so with her voice I vote no". Nope, it just means what he would vote yes or no for any decision and it would counts as 3 yes or 3 no. There is a lot of old friends whom Ororo and Kurt could have appointed to take their place and vote with their own minds.

At the same time, if Kurt and Ororo can give their voices to others, why can't Emma, Xavier, Hope and Exodus do the same? Although the only possible candidates left on the Council to whom the four would trust with their voice are Kate and Piotr, so it would probably turn into Kate with 4 voices (her own, Emma's, Hope's and Exodus) and Piotr also with 4 voices (his, Storm's, Kurt's and Xavier's). So again, it would have made way more sense to appoint someone else to the Council even if just temporary until the four are cleared. The Council's meetings are not public anyway, so there is no need to make a public announcement about the four, just let some other people they trust to take their seat for a time and vote.

[Proxy]

From in-universe point of view it is very strange what Kurt and Ororo gave their voices to others, instead of just stepping down from the Council so what someone else can become a full-time member and be always there. Even if Colossus was normal, he would still have three voices and I don't think he would vote like: "With my voice I vote yes, and Kurt would have probably also supported it, so also yes with his voice, but I think Storm would have been against it, so with her voice I vote no". Nope, it just means what he would vote yes or no for any decision and it would counts as 3 yes or 3 no. There is a lot of old friends whom Ororo and Kurt could have appointed to take their place and vote with their own minds.

At the same time, if Kurt and Ororo can give their voices to others, why can't Emma, Xavier, Hope and Exodus do the same? Although the only possible candidates left on the Council to whom the four would trust with their voice are Kate and Piotr, so it would probably turn into Kate with 4 voices (her own, Emma's, Hope's and Exodus) and Piotr also with 4 voices (his, Storm's, Kurt's and Xavier's). So again, it would have made way more sense to appoint someone else to the Council even if just temporary until the four are cleared. The Council's meetings are not public anyway, so there is no need to make a public announcement about the four, just let some other people they trust to take their seat for a time and vote.

Kurt did step down. In Sons of X he tells Scott Storm is given his vote until someone else has been chosen to replace him. So I guess the council just haven’t got around to it.

[JB]

I'm hoping Selene ends up double crossing Mother Righteous. I can't imagine she has any desire to owe anything to anyone for very long and it would be hilarious.

[Saturius]

From in-universe point of view it is very strange what Kurt and Ororo gave their voices to others, instead of just stepping down from the Council so what someone else can become a full-time member and be always there. Even if Colossus was normal, he would still have three voices and I don't think he would vote like: "With my voice I vote yes, and Kurt would have probably also supported it, so also yes with his voice, but I think Storm would have been against it, so with her voice I vote no". Nope, it just means what he would vote yes or no for any decision and it would counts as 3 yes or 3 no. There is a lot of old friends whom Ororo and Kurt could have appointed to take their place and vote with their own minds.

At the same time, if Kurt and Ororo can give their voices to others, why can't Emma, Xavier, Hope and Exodus do the same? Although the only possible candidates left on the Council to whom the four would trust with their voice are Kate and Piotr, so it would probably turn into Kate with 4 voices (her own, Emma's, Hope's and Exodus) and Piotr also with 4 voices (his, Storm's, Kurt's and Xavier's). So again, it would have made way more sense to appoint someone else to the Council even if just temporary until the four are cleared. The Council's meetings are not public anyway, so there is no need to make a public announcement about the four, just let some other people they trust to take their seat for a time and vote.

What a fucking mess. You're right in that the choices made by the characters makes zero sense.

[jwatson]

What a fucking mess. You're right in that the choices made by the characters makes zero sense.

The choices the writer had the characters make to get to this specific point in the plot. I can't blame characters for choices that make zero sense.

It not on you but it makes no sense to me. How can a large segment of people say what the characters do to serve the plot make no sense but then on the flip still say by the writer good. it makes no sense. lol I have to say though this is one run that i think the fans just were like "whatever" none of it worked. Not trying to make the council look immoral, none because it was just that far out and in this franchise with that many characters and fans are individually and as a group for their faves basically like well "They just following the plot" a person can't even be baited with this material.

[Nicoclaws]

I'm hoping Selene ends up double crossing Mother Righteous. I can't imagine she has any desire to owe anything to anyone for very long and it would be hilarious.

Oh yeah !
And then she fuse with Candra for some reason, and bam red dominion !