The Problem With Paul

[Lee]

All stories are designed for the audience to engage with emotionally.

When Bambi's mom was killed you were supposed to feel sad. That wasn't Walt Disney attacking the audience.

[Vortex85]

All stories are designed for the audience to engage with emotionally.

When Bambi's mom was killed you were supposed to feel sad. That wasn't Walt Disney attacking the audience.

True, but Bambi's mom was setup to die, MJ is setup to be Peter's one true love, so when fans are excited and the rug is pulled out from under us, we are supposed to be upset. Then they say they hope the story makes up for it, which I don't think the majority of fans feel it has... so yeah, a mission unaccomplished at this point for the Spider Office. I don't see that likely changing by the end of this run. It has gotten too much negative feedback to change the perception of this being seen as a "good run" for the majority of fandom. The "fridging of Kamala Kahn" has pretty much sealed it's fate.

[Xenon]

True they are not a hivemind, but Lowe admitted from the start that this story with MJ and Paul would cause a bunch of fans "anger and sadness". So they knew what the response would likely be for a bunch of fans going into this story. Now that we have seen the result of the story, I don't think they "made up for the anger and sadness" with this story for those who felt it. Maybe those who did not feel it are fine, but nothing they have done so far as made up for it with the fans who felt that from the start.



Also, Lee, you really underplay Mary Jane's importance in the overall lore of the book, I mean even the recently published "Marvel Encyclopedia, 2022 Edition", still states MJ as Spider-Man's "one true love". Her place in the Spider-Man franchise is not changing, no matter what a run in the comics pulls.

Boy I had not read that letters page before and...yikes. This run is just a failure, what a bad job.

All stories are designed for the audience to engage with emotionally.

When Bambi's mom was killed you were supposed to feel sad. That wasn't Walt Disney attacking the audience.

All stoires don't have the kind of contentious history that this relationship has betgween editorial and the fandom. They even recognized this fact back in ASM1 as Vortex pointed out.

And yes, Bambi's mom was a weapon to hurt you with. In that case, it was to hurt you with a purpose that ultimately most people found fulfilling. But ASM25 and 26 are so poorly done that they do not make up for any hurt they caused at all.

[Morgoth]

Do you know what's a real problem?
Because of all of this hate, all this discourse around Paul makes him bigger, than he actually is. I literally see people outside of comics fanbase asking, who the hell this guy is. And because of that I wouldn't be suprised if Marvel finds the way to keep him, just because people talk a lot about him, lol.

[Frontier]

Do you know what's a real problem?
Because of all of this hate, all this discourse around Paul makes him bigger, than he actually is. I literally see people outside of comics fanbase asking, who the hell this guy is. And because of that I wouldn't be suprised if Marvel finds the way to keep him, just because people talk a lot about him, lol.

Kind of reminds me of Bernard with Tim Drake over at DC.

[CaptainUniverse]

Do you know what's a real problem?
Because of all of this hate, all this discourse around Paul makes him bigger, than he actually is. I literally see people outside of comics fanbase asking, who the hell this guy is. And because of that I wouldn't be suprised if Marvel finds the way to keep him, just because people talk a lot about him, lol.

The kids didn't stick around despite some claiming that they'd be here forever, I don't expect Paul to stay either.

[Venomsaurus]

While I do expect this to be his ultimate fate, my "paul is gay" theory still survives (how is it we got through 26 with none of my theories being either confirmed nor denied except the kids?) and could spare him such a fate. We hate Paul because he's keeping Mary Jane from Peter, he's that weapon that Wells is using against us, but gay Paul pretty radically changes the nature of their relationship. If Paul and MJ are romantic, then his motivations are self-serving. He's standing by his woman. If Paul and Mary Jane aren't romantic though, then Paul is not the man that stole Spider-Man's wife, he's the man that protected Spider-'Man's wife in a harsh and unforgiving world. Who stood by her and comforted her and helped her get through the most difficult period of her adult life (arguably). He's a dear friend and a close ally, almost self-sacrificing. In such a scenario not only do we not actually hate Paul but Paul is kinda a bro for Peter.

That said, the damage done might be too much. It'd be one thing if the rest of this story was competently told but has this awful dagger in its back that is the characterization of MJ. But the rest is crap too, so.....people might just always see him as the symbol of the run even if the relationship is platonic.

Idunno, even if they pull the twist on him being gay, I just can't help but feel the ship has sailed on people ever not hating this guy. He could have been a total gentleman and never touched MJ (I seriously doubt it from everything issues 25 and 26 told us) but at this rate the hate is there. Not gonna undo it. He's either headed for a grave, or obscurity after this run. Plus, his character is intrinsically tied to the assisination of Mary Jane's characterization. So yeah, he gotta go, and he gotta go like right freakin' now.

Do you know what's a real problem?
Because of all of this hate, all this discourse around Paul makes him bigger, than he actually is. I literally see people outside of comics fanbase asking, who the hell this guy is. And because of that I wouldn't be suprised if Marvel finds the way to keep him, just because people talk a lot about him, lol.

Paul, much like Peter/Felicia, is on a time-limit. Be it him becoming a villain, heroic sacrifice, killed for shock value or just written out of the story and never mentioned again. He's a character who only exists to provoke the fanbase. When he's finished serving that purpose, he'll be gone.

[Astroman]

This run has really divided the Body Paul-atic of Spider-Man fans.

(dear Lord, comics have finally driven me insane!!)

[Celgress]

In the end, the only lasting "impact" this run has will no doubt be the introduction of the stupendous Paul. We all know Ms. Marvel's death won't last nor likely will MJ's powers. Talk about a lack-luster legacy...

[Xenon]

Do you know what's a real problem?
Because of all of this hate, all this discourse around Paul makes him bigger, than he actually is. I literally see people outside of comics fanbase asking, who the hell this guy is. And because of that I wouldn't be suprised if Marvel finds the way to keep him, just because people talk a lot about him, lol.

There's some truth to this, but his name is mud. Like I can see a guy like Slott wanting to pull him out of the toy chest but most people will likely want to avoid him completely without significant change.

Idunno, even if they pull the twist on him being gay, I just can't help but feel the ship has sailed on people ever not hating this guy. He could have been a total gentleman and never touched MJ (I seriously doubt it from everything issues 25 and 26 told us) but at this rate the hate is there. Not gonna undo it. He's either headed for a grave, or obscurity after this run. Plus, his character is intrinsically tied to the assisination of Mary Jane's characterization. So yeah, he gotta go, and he gotta go like right freakin' now.

That's also entirely possible. He might just be too toxic to save even with recontextualization. But that's the only way I see for him to have any chance of being anything but hated and likely eventually killed (even if he survives this run someone will circle back around and kill him superfluously later).

This run has really divided the Body Paul-atic of Spider-Man fans.

(dear Lord, comics have finally driven me insane!!)

You are also on time out. >=[

In the end, the only lasting "impact" this run has will no doubt be the introduction of the stupendous Paul. We all know Ms. Marvel's death won't last nor likely will MJ's powers. Talk about a lack-luster legacy...

I guess I'm on an island on this one, and even I'm a little conflicted but I actually kind of like her powers. i think the unreliability is what makes it work for me. You'd have to be stupid to try and fight crime regularly with that powerset, but there's a part of me that likes the idea she has a whopper to pull out if threatened (and becaues it's ureliable it doesn't stop them from still putting her in danger).

[Malachi]

All stories are designed for the audience to engage with emotionally.

When Bambi's mom was killed you were supposed to feel sad. That wasn't Walt Disney attacking the audience.

Bambi is a bad example but let's use it anyway.
This more like the son of the hunter suddenly is best friends with Stomper and Stomper doesn't want anything to do with Bambi anymore. All the while keeping it very vague and the atmosphere icey to say the least.

[Lee]

I'm not discussing the content of the story.

I'm discussing the difference between "Spider-Man's girlfriend broke up with him, that makes me sad" and "Spider-Man's girlfriend broke up with him, I am being attacked".

To be attacked requires an attacker. Zeb Wells has discussed his motivations for writing this story, and they didn't involve attacking people.

I think that if someone feels personally attacked by comic book characters having relationship drama, they need to take a step back and put things into perspective.

[Kevinroc]

I'm not discussing the content of the story.

I'm discussing the difference between "Spider-Man's girlfriend broke up with him, that makes me sad" and "Spider-Man's girlfriend broke up with him, I am being attacked".

To be attacked requires an attacker. Zeb Wells has discussed his motivations for writing this story, and they didn't involve attacking people.

I think that if someone feels personally attacked by comic book characters having relationship drama, they need to take a step back and put things into perspective.

This video looks at the content of the story. Do you disagree with this video?

[Spider-Tiger]

All stories are designed for the audience to engage with emotionally.

When Bambi's mom was killed you were supposed to feel sad. That wasn't Walt Disney attacking the audience.

Likewise you probably aren't supposed to cheer or feel giddy when Bambi's mom is killed (or children in this case.) This run isn't exactly hitting the emotional beats that the writing seems to be aiming for. It's provoking a reaction based on a meta-disagreement between editorial and the readership.

Also, Lee, you really underplay Mary Jane's importance in the overall lore of the book, I mean even the recently published "Marvel Encyclopedia, 2022 Edition", still states MJ as Spider-Man's "one true love". Her place in the Spider-Man franchise is not changing, no matter what a run in the comics pulls.

What's more incredible here is not the "one true love" bit, but that they call Mary Jane his wife! Are the different Marvel offices really that disconnected? Or maybe.. just maybe... we're getting closer to re-instating the marriage?

[Knightsilver]

Paul was created for one reason...and one reason only...to be the obstacle to the popular pairing. He was a plot device and not a genuine character...and as such he was always going to be hated. Literally the only thing he can be described for is being in the way of Peter and MJ.