‘SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN’ series this Fall with Dan Slott 2023

[Xenon]

Spencer seemed to imply one of the guys was gonna be involved in Goblin business:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1571861370.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1571861370.jpg

(ASM#31 vol 5)

The tattoo there had a few members here pointing out that it looks like a goblin, and he also said "Patent goblin" rather randomly.

I think he was gonna add more drama, but dropped that plot point, so no one besides Jamie showed up afterwards, since he was doing Clairvoyant ****.

Despite Kindred dragging on too long, Spencer was pretty good about having multiple things going on. It's a shame we didn't get a "full" run from him, I think it would have been good.

A big problem comic books have had for years lol.

Oh for sure. It's not JUST a Wells thing.

I mean, fighting Raditz is still for pragmatic reasons lol.

Sure, but i always looked at it like he may have started for pragmatic reasons but that didn't mean Goku wasn't able to influence him regardless. But, despite having spent the last month on this board raging about how bad the comic is and all the ways its bad the reality is I'm normally pretty easy to please and will go with the flow. You don't have to fill in ALL the gaps for me, you just can't, like contradict things. And Im' pretty willing to believe in redemption.

Vegeta is like that, he constantly talks like he lost to Goku when technically Goku never won a fight between them.

In that Super-Hero movie, he defeats Goku at the end, and celebrates like it's the biggest achievement on his life lol.

Though it makes sense why he sees **** as defeat even though he technically never lost, because the only time he ws actually stronger than Goku was in saiyan saga, any other they were evenly matched, or Goku outclassed him.

Right he doesn't "lose" one on one but that's simply because they don't fight when Vegeta is behind him so badly.

She toned it down her overall attraction towards men, despite finding Goku attractive in the 23rd tournament, she doesn't try to flirt with him, and in Namek, despite finding Zarbon hot, she doesn't jump at him **** first like she used to do.

It's actually funny that despite how much of a pervert she used to be, her relationship with Vegeta is really chaste lol.

This is mostly fair, though we have no idea how chaste or not her Vegeta relationship really was.

Yep, a job like that at least can give him a better justification for his tech, though he'd need other supporting characters, and coming up with characters are iconic as the daily bugle is just so difficult...

Yeaht that's the problem with the solo lab idea. THe Loss of Newspapers are a relevant institution has been really bad for the character and no one has been able to really come up with a solution. If he was married to MJ still i guess you could put her on a soap opera and let HER workplace provide characters but that's a stretch.

The biggest difference is the pacing, because the anime's pacing is really bad, while the manga's pacing has surprisingly a lot going on for a weekly manga, and this kind of pacing is at its best in saiyan saga and early parts of Namek.

The fights are also better on the manga than anime for me in a lot of cases, since Toriyama really, really knows how to make them feel frenetic, Goku vs Nappa is overall a very good fight, and it has one of my favorite kamehameha moments:







(Dragon Ball#226).

I really like just how suddenly Nappa does the attack, and Toriyama really manages to make Goku's reaction to it look fast, instead of just having the characters say it was fast (Vegeta does say it, but considering that one panel has him looking surprised, and the very next one has him already unleashing the kamehameha, it does have Goku actually reacting to it fast).

For me this is the best fight in saiyan saga, and I know everyone really likes to talk about Goku vs Vegeta, and it's still a pretty good fight, but I prefer the Nappa fight, specially its beam struggle, 'cause Goku vs Vegeta's beam struggle is just fine but predictable to me, Goku vs Nappa's beam struggle is unnexpected and that makes it better for me, because fights aren't telegraphed lol.

I'm always surprised at how clean the manga is. I really like his style in that setting.

It looks kinda funny lol:

https://i.imgur.com/79NwrSv.png

I've decided. I don't like it.

I meant that Black and Otto get overrated, not Ginyu lol.

The closest thing I've seen of people overrating Ginyu, are when people think he's a good boss who cares for his men, when in actuality when he heard that the other members from Ginyu Force got killed, he was annoyed because it ruined their poses.

OH, yeah I an agree with that. I've been done with Ock since the 80s (well, the 80s comics), and Black was a decent arc idea that was poorly done unfortunately.

Spider-Boy is basically Yamcha

But this next book seems like a Non-Stop to Savage Spider-Man transition book.. One didn't do well enough so to save it has to be transformed into something else

Ah....that makes some sense. I...did not finish Savage. I liked Nonstop fine but....I dunnoI think I just forgot Savage? Eh.

Isn't that just delaying the inevitable at this point? If the book isn't doing well in its current incarnation, what guarantee is there that it will succeed once it has been rebranded?

No guarantee, of course, but Marvel has been doing this for years at this point. Sales slumping, hit'em with a number 1. In this case, seems they're trying to leverage Superior bewildering popularity into something.

[Celgress]

I love how this thread has devolved into a DB lore discussion/debate thread.

Although I'm ecstatic at the prospect of more Superior Spider-Man, I can admit the reaction here is lukewarm at best. LOL, Marvel Editorial you keep on shining you crazy diamonds your current 616 Spidey plans are setting the Internet on fire, baby!

[WebLurker]

I love how this thread has devolved into a DB lore discussion/debate thread.

Although I'm ecstatic at the prospect of more Superior Spider-Man, I can admit the reaction here is lukewarm at best. LOL, Marvel Editorial you keep on shining you crazy diamonds your current 616 Spidey plans are setting the Internet on fire, baby!

Maybe the outrage over Wells' run kinda exhausted all the reserved ire we have over Spider-Man-related decisions?

[Celgress]

Maybe the outrage over Wells' run kinda exhausted all the reserved ire we have over Spider-Man-related decisions?

You could be right.

I know I'm exhausted mentally to the point I no longer care about what happens with Amazing. I'm too tired to get angry along longer. I only feel apathy now. I'll check out Superior Spider-Man in Fall but until then, I'm on hiatus.

[Darthfury78]

The Spider-Office needs new blood.

You got that right. Long over due.

[Darthfury78]

FINALLY. I look forward to this. Ironically enough, since I've completely dropped Amazing, this would replace it. How fitting.

Though IMO, the way Gage wrote him in Vol 2 was pretty....superior....

Now here's hoping it takes place in the present

I would love to see Marvel so a Spider-Man Noir and Black Widow team-up adventure. As far as spiderverse story crossover goes, this would be a winning idea...

[Huntsman Spider]

I would love to see Marvel so a Spider-Man Noir and Black Widow team-up adventure. As far as spiderverse story crossover goes, this would be a winning idea...

Hmm, a Black Widow Noir with Spider-Man Noir could be interesting. Hell, Natasha in comics canon was alive during World War II, so . . .

[Inversed]

Since I know some people aren't completely aware of what's been going on with Otto, here's basically a summary of everything that happened to him since he got his original body back at the end of Gage's Superior run:

-During Sinister War, he went around looking for information on his missing memories and was blackmailed by Kindred into re-forming the Sinister Six to fight Spider-Man. By the end Otto betrayed Kindred by freeing all the villains from the parasites he was using to control them, saving Spider-Man, but claiming he was just "getting revenge".

-During Beyond, Aunt May seeked out Otto's help to track down more information for Peter's condition to help him be cured. The two work well together, however Otto goes too far and May breaks off the deal. Nevertheless, he finds what they were looking for and gives it to the doctors which helps Peter. He also starts looking into the Beyond Corporation, learning about their secrets and confronts them about it. Ben fights him, but it ends with Otto giving him a data disk revealing the truth of what happened and leaves.

-During Devil's Reign, after Fisk takes control of the city, he gives Otto control of the Baxter Building, which he uses to traverse the multiverse, first creating a "Superior Four" of other Ottos, followed by travelling to other universes and learning the fates of their Octavius'. He wants to create a "Council of Ocks" but that goes wrong as they all end up fighting each other, and ultimately returns back to NYC where he and Fisk try to betray each other, before they're all defeated by the heroes.

-In the current run, the Ultra Living Brain kidnaps him and the other Sinister Six members to forcibly power the Sinister-Adaptoid all to fight Spider-Man. Otto's tentacles track down Spider-Man, and take him to their location to save them. Otto then tries to kill Spider-Man after he defends the Living Brain from the Six, but the tentacles stop him due to bonding with Spidey, and the Living Brain teleports the Six away.

And now the next arc in Amazing will be Otto focused, which based on the FCBD issue, where he's doing some kind of revenge scheme against Spider-Man. How this all will lead into a new Superior run I have no idea, but we'll have to see.

[Lukmendes]

Despite Kindred dragging on too long, Spencer was pretty good about having multiple things going on. It's a shame we didn't get a "full" run from him, I think it would have been good.

Eh, I'm not so sure, the quality started to drop at around 20 issues in, and it definitely got worse during Last Remains, to the point that I dropped his run for a while before Last Remains even ended.

Plus, with the amount of tie-ins and giant-size issues, Spencer's run had practically 100 issues, that's more than say, Immortal Hulk got lol.

While at the end he was just awkwardly trying to solve his plot points, the quality dropped before, but, even with that, it's still worth pointing out he's one of the few writers who actually knows how to write Spidey and MJ, 'cause BND writers like Slott and Wells may write him like a fanfiction and/or parody interpretation of Spidey, while Spencer actually felt like Peter Parker.

Oh for sure. It's not JUST a Wells thing.

Yeah it's super-hero **** in general, civilian life is practically dead, and Spencer's run is even an example of this, Randie did fucking nothing for most of the run despite being one of Spidey's roommates, the only significant development he got was dating Janice, which, not only comes completely out of nowhere, it also didn't do much for him because his few scenes afterwards were basically him being Janice's boyfriend.

Sure, but i always looked at it like he may have started for pragmatic reasons but that didn't mean Goku wasn't able to influence him regardless.

Goku's influence on him only really started after saiyan saga, if anything Gohan influenced Piccolo first.

While Kami makes it clear that Piccolo isn't as evil as King Piccolo in saiyan saga, he never even hints that Goku did anything to help in that.

But, despite having spent the last month on this board raging about how bad the comic is and all the ways its bad the reality is I'm normally pretty easy to please and will go with the flow. You don't have to fill in ALL the gaps for me, you just can't, like contradict things. And Im' pretty willing to believe in redemption.

There are a lot of gaps you don't have to show, but Vegeta's changes are just too big to leave on the background, why's that he did nothing when Bulma and baby Trunks almost got killed by Gero? He was a really big douche to Trunks still after spending an year with him, but after the second year he got pissed over Trunks' death, would he react like that after the first year despite beating up Trunks? And he ends Cell saga promissing to himself he won't fight again, but he's still training and ready to fight in Buu saga, what happened?

It's just too much character development going on offscreen, and Vegeta being the kind of guy who decides to kill Nappa to then being pissed that Trunks got killed is a huge change, and again, he was shown to not care at fucking about baby Trunks, so he wasn't, at least at first, someone who'd care about blood relation.

This is mostly fair, though we have no idea how chaste or not her Vegeta relationship really was.

It's just funny that Bulma went from lusting after hot men to interacting with Vegeta in innocent ways such as only very occasionally kissing lol.

Like they could be fucking like Spidey/MJ do, it's just that even on the few times they have private interactions it's rather chaste.

Yeaht that's the problem with the solo lab idea. THe Loss of Newspapers are a relevant institution has been really bad for the character and no one has been able to really come up with a solution. If he was married to MJ still i guess you could put her on a soap opera and let HER workplace provide characters but that's a stretch.

That's a possibility, the problem is that coming up with interesting characters is hard, and to make it more annoying, comic books are generally unwilling to keep new additions around.

I'm always surprised at how clean the manga is. I really like his style in that setting.

Peak Toriyama was on his own level, his story telling was good despite the writing itself having a lot of issues, what he really manages to do is to make likeable enough characters and keep you engaged.

Seriously, despite me fucking detesting zenkais for being sheer laziness, Vegeta's brief stint as the protagonist of Namek saga was just so fun, him outsmarting Freeza and his goons was pretty fun, though it is annoying that whenever he got beaten up, the solution to how he'll overcome that opponent is "zenkai", it happened with Dodoria, Zarbon, and whatever was left of Ginyu force...

OH, yeah I an agree with that. I've been done with Ock since the 80s (well, the 80s comics), and Black was a decent arc idea that was poorly done unfortunately.

Black is fine, and he has his own motivations compared to everyone else, but the anime way too in love with him, that fucking scythe was such an asspull that he might as well have pulled it from his ass instead of hand lol.

I love how this thread has devolved into a DB lore discussion/debate thread.

Although I'm ecstatic at the prospect of more Superior Spider-Man, I can admit the reaction here is lukewarm at best. LOL, Marvel Editorial you keep on shining you crazy diamonds your current 616 Spidey plans are setting the Internet on fire, baby!

I mean ASM is terrible and I don't even hear anyone talking about Slott's Adjectiveless Spider-Man, that and Slott's post Superior years on Spider-Man aren't liked as much even by his fans as far as I've seen, there's little to be hyped over.

[rward777]

Eh, I'm not so sure, the quality started to drop at around 20 issues in, and it definitely got worse during Last Remains, to the point that I dropped his run for a while before Last Remains even ended.

Plus, with the amount of tie-ins and giant-size issues, Spencer's run had practically 100 issues, that's more than say, Immortal Hulk got lol.

While at the end he was just awkwardly trying to solve his plot points, the quality dropped before, but, even with that, it's still worth pointing out he's one of the few writers who actually knows how to write Spidey and MJ, 'cause BND writers like Slott and Wells may write him like a fanfiction and/or parody interpretation of Spidey, while Spencer actually felt like Peter Parker.



Yeah it's super-hero **** in general, civilian life is practically dead, and Spencer's run is even an example of this, Randie did fucking nothing for most of the run despite being one of Spidey's roommates, the only significant development he got was dating Janice, which, not only comes completely out of nowhere, it also didn't do much for him because his few scenes afterwards were basically him being Janice's boyfriend.



Goku's influence on him only really started after saiyan saga, if anything Gohan influenced Piccolo first.

While Kami makes it clear that Piccolo isn't as evil as King Piccolo in saiyan saga, he never even hints that Goku did anything to help in that.



There are a lot of gaps you don't have to show, but Vegeta's changes are just too big to leave on the background, why's that he did nothing when Bulma and baby Trunks almost got killed by Gero? He was a really big douche to Trunks still after spending an year with him, but after the second year he got pissed over Trunks' death, would he react like that after the first year despite beating up Trunks? And he ends Cell saga promissing to himself he won't fight again, but he's still training and ready to fight in Buu saga, what happened?

It's just too much character development going on offscreen, and Vegeta being the kind of guy who decides to kill Nappa to then being pissed that Trunks got killed is a huge change, and again, he was shown to not care at fucking about baby Trunks, so he wasn't, at least at first, someone who'd care about blood relation.



It's just funny that Bulma went from lusting after hot men to interacting with Vegeta in innocent ways such as only very occasionally kissing lol.

Like they could be fucking like Spidey/MJ do, it's just that even on the few times they have private interactions it's rather chaste.



That's a possibility, the problem is that coming up with interesting characters is hard, and to make it more annoying, comic books are generally unwilling to keep new additions around.



Peak Toriyama was on his own level, his story telling was good despite the writing itself having a lot of issues, what he really manages to do is to make likeable enough characters and keep you engaged.

Seriously, despite me fucking detesting zenkais for being sheer laziness, Vegeta's brief stint as the protagonist of Namek saga was just so fun, him outsmarting Freeza and his goons was pretty fun, though it is annoying that whenever he got beaten up, the solution to how he'll overcome that opponent is "zenkai", it happened with Dodoria, Zarbon, and whatever was left of Ginyu force...



Black is fine, and he has his own motivations compared to everyone else, but the anime way too in love with him, that fucking scythe was such an asspull that he might as well have pulled it from his ass instead of hand lol.



I mean ASM is terrible and I don't even hear anyone talking about Slott's Adjectiveless Spider-Man, that and Slott's post Superior years on Spider-Man aren't liked as much even by his fans as far as I've seen, there's little to be hyped over.

Slott said that ssm could have a twist. Meaning that the Superior Spider-man could be Peter parker instead of Doc Ock.

[CaptainUniverse]

Slott said that ssm could have a twist. Meaning that the Superior Spider-man could be Peter parker instead of Doc Ock.

That could be an interesting twist, I guess, better than Otto becoming Superior again. But, I have to wonder...does that mean Peter just gets fed up with everything and decides to go full Superior on everyone?

[Xenon]

Eh, I'm not so sure, the quality started to drop at around 20 issues in, and it definitely got worse during Last Remains, to the point that I dropped his run for a while before Last Remains even ended.

Plus, with the amount of tie-ins and giant-size issues, Spencer's run had practically 100 issues, that's more than say, Immortal Hulk got lol.

While at the end he was just awkwardly trying to solve his plot points, the quality dropped before, but, even with that, it's still worth pointing out he's one of the few writers who actually knows how to write Spidey and MJ, 'cause BND writers like Slott and Wells may write him like a fanfiction and/or parody interpretation of Spidey, while Spencer actually felt like Peter Parker.

Eh see for me I never really had a problem during Spencer's run outside of one time when he refernces Sins PAst, lol. For me he did a good job of taking things I was definitely unsure of and making them entertaining. I like the entire Boomerang arc. i liked the Randy/Beetle romance, I even kinda liked the Sin Eater usage here (though mystical stuff always makes me wary).

Yeah he actually got a lot of issues, and like I said, Kindred took too long, but the end was still truncated. I mean Kindred was obviously referencing OMD originally, so it makes me curious what he was going to do and how he was going to do it. Was it jsut goign to be a reminder but not a full undo? Was Kindred ultimately going to be trying to Help Peter? Just peaks my interest.

Yeah it's super-hero **** in general, civilian life is practically dead, and Spencer's run is even an example of this, Randie did fucking nothing for most of the run despite being one of Spidey's roommates, the only significant development he got was dating Janice, which, not only comes completely out of nowhere, it also didn't do much for him because his few scenes afterwards were basically him being Janice's boyfriend.

He tried at teh beginning but yeah he got overwhelmed. Peter's "civilian" life became Boomerang and MJ and of course Boomerang isn't a civilian, lol. ANd a couple of references to a science project as well. Spider-Man needs dense comics to juggle everything.

Goku's influence on him only really started after saiyan saga, if anything Gohan influenced Piccolo first.

While Kami makes it clear that Piccolo isn't as evil as King Piccolo in saiyan saga, he never even hints that Goku did anything to help in that.

I'm filling in gaps <_<

There are a lot of gaps you don't have to show, but Vegeta's changes are just too big to leave on the background, why's that he did nothing when Bulma and baby Trunks almost got killed by Gero? He was a really big douche to Trunks still after spending an year with him, but after the second year he got pissed over Trunks' death, would he react like that after the first year despite beating up Trunks? And he ends Cell saga promissing to himself he won't fight again, but he's still training and ready to fight in Buu saga, what happened?

It's just too much character development going on offscreen, and Vegeta being the kind of guy who decides to kill Nappa to then being pissed that Trunks got killed is a huge change, and again, he was shown to not care at fucking about baby Trunks, so he wasn't, at least at first, someone who'd care about blood relation.

I can't say you're wrong about all this, but how I always looked at it was a combination of Vegeta not knowing what to do and self-delusion. Like in his culture the kids just got sent off to kill planets. It takes time for him to figure things out. Now, it's perfectly fair to argue that, as a story, it fails to properly fill in the gaps and give characters enough so that the development is earned, and that's fair. I don't think I would have ever argued characterization was a strong point of Dragon Ball (and of course it's only gotten worse in sequel series). From a story perspective what I would say is good is the escalation and how every arc is this escalation that really makes the stakes high and makes sense. like once he's the strongest on Earth, there's a monster from teh past to fight. Beat him and now there are aliens. Beat the strongest in the universe and a time traveling monster from teh future shows up, then beat him and there's a sealed away monster from teh past to deal with. I always thought he did a good job of that instead of continually pulling out random guys wo should have alreeady been seen.

It's just funny that Bulma went from lusting after hot men to interacting with Vegeta in innocent ways such as only very occasionally kissing lol.

Like they could be fucking like Spidey/MJ do, it's just that even on the few times they have private interactions it's rather chaste.

No that makes sense to me. She wasn't being satisfied before so she was always trying to get satisfaction. Now she has it, lol. Also i bet Vegeta is the type to be super embarassed by PDA.

That's a possibility, the problem is that coming up with interesting characters is hard, and to make it more annoying, comic books are generally unwilling to keep new additions around.

Yeah as much as it's a problem it's one that I totally get, as you not only have to create an interesting supporting cast but then getting them to stay around is even harder. Slott tried a couple of times to no avail..

Peak Toriyama was on his own level, his story telling was good despite the writing itself having a lot of issues, what he really manages to do is to make likeable enough characters and keep you engaged.

Seriously, despite me fucking detesting zenkais for being sheer laziness, Vegeta's brief stint as the protagonist of Namek saga was just so fun, him outsmarting Freeza and his goons was pretty fun, though it is annoying that whenever he got beaten up, the solution to how he'll overcome that opponent is "zenkai", it happened with Dodoria, Zarbon, and whatever was left of Ginyu force...

He definitely leans hard on that but he seemed to realize it (or his editor did) because it completely disappears after that point, lol.

Black is fine, and he has his own motivations compared to everyone else, but the anime way too in love with him, that fucking scythe was such an asspull that he might as well have pulled it from his ass instead of hand lol.

Black is fine as a villain but that arc jus annoys me because they dont' plan, they don't make adjustments, they just get beat, go heal, and go back again. The only cool part was when they brough back the evil sealing wave.....only to get rid of it immediately, lol.

[Lukmendes]

Slott said that ssm could have a twist. Meaning that the Superior Spider-man could be Peter parker instead of Doc Ock.

What, so this?:

Spider-Man, pretending to be Doc Ock, pretending to be Spider-Man.

That could be an interesting twist, I guess, better than Otto becoming Superior again. But, I have to wonder...does that mean Peter just gets fed up with everything and decides to go full Superior on everyone?

That's just "The Spider" all over again lol.

Eh see for me I never really had a problem during Spencer's run outside of one time when he refernces Sins PAst, lol. For me he did a good job of taking things I was definitely unsure of and making them entertaining. I like the entire Boomerang arc. i liked the Randy/Beetle romance, I even kinda liked the Sin Eater usage here (though mystical stuff always makes me wary).

Yeah he actually got a lot of issues, and like I said, Kindred took too long, but the end was still truncated. I mean Kindred was obviously referencing OMD originally, so it makes me curious what he was going to do and how he was going to do it. Was it jsut goign to be a reminder but not a full undo? Was Kindred ultimately going to be trying to Help Peter? Just peaks my interest.

Kindred would need to change his mind, 'cause he rather blatantly wanted to **** over Spidey lol.

He tried at teh beginning but yeah he got overwhelmed. Peter's "civilian" life became Boomerang and MJ and of course Boomerang isn't a civilian, lol. ANd a couple of references to a science project as well. Spider-Man needs dense comics to juggle everything.

And then MJ herself didn't show up much afterwards lol.

I can't say you're wrong about all this, but how I always looked at it was a combination of Vegeta not knowing what to do and self-delusion. Like in his culture the kids just got sent off to kill planets. It takes time for him to figure things out. Now, it's perfectly fair to argue that, as a story, it fails to properly fill in the gaps and give characters enough so that the development is earned, and that's fair. I don't think I would have ever argued characterization was a strong point of Dragon Ball (and of course it's only gotten worse in sequel series). From a story perspective what I would say is good is the escalation and how every arc is this escalation that really makes the stakes high and makes sense. like once he's the strongest on Earth, there's a monster from teh past to fight. Beat him and now there are aliens. Beat the strongest in the universe and a time traveling monster from teh future shows up, then beat him and there's a sealed away monster from teh past to deal with. I always thought he did a good job of that instead of continually pulling out random guys wo should have alreeady been seen.

Toriyama's escalation mostly makes a lot of sense, yeah lol.

Like in early DB we didn't know the world as a whole, so pulling more strong enemies made sense, specially with the introduction of Red Ribbon, but the thing is, Red Ribbon itself tones down how much you can escalate, and Goku casually outclassed them and defeated Tao Pai Pai.

But then to escalate properly he added characters from Crane school, and only really Tien was stronger than Tao Pai Pai.

Then he decides to add an ancient demon, with ties to Roshi's and Crane's past.

After that it's aliens, from the same race as Goku, and then we get to see the super powerful guy who's their boss.

The first time the escalation gets silly is with the androids, because Gero basically says that the last time he saw Goku was back in saiyan saga, and he assumed Goku wouldn't grow much stronger than that, and while whether or not Gero and 19 are stronger than Freeza is debatable, 17, 18, and specially, 16, casually outclass Freeza in power, all of this with Gero not being aware of Freeza and the super saiyan transformations lol.

Boo brings it back again with an ancient evil, and then Beerus and Zeno do it again with gods above gods, and the fact that Universe 7 is just another universe, that opens the door for people who could be even stronger than Goku, and even then, they keep it at reasonable levels, it's only Hit, Kale, Toppo and Jiren who are on Goku's level, for some other characters even Boo is too much.

While the escalation itself is silly, it all feels like the part of a world, for the most part, compare this with GT and we have a bunch of characters who are casually on Boo's level without an explanation, Toriyama manages to make the setting have a bunch of powerful people who don't interfere with each other in some way, GT having general Rildo makes me wonder "Why the hell didn't he just beat up Freeza at some point?" lol.

No that makes sense to me. She wasn't being satisfied before so she was always trying to get satisfaction. Now she has it, lol.

Oh yeah, toning down that perversion makes sense, and she has done it over time before Vegeta was even considered to exist anyways, I just find it funny.

Also i bet Vegeta is the type to be super embarassed by PDA.

In Battle of Gods Goku teases Vegeta over his reaction when Bulma gets slapped, which Bulma says that she felt loved, and he blushes after this, also in Super's manga she kissed him once Zamasu was dealt with, and he got embarrassed at that too.

So yeah, he does, luckily for him Bulma doesn't do it much, he'd probably consider killing Bulma if she acted like in early DB lol.

Yeah as much as it's a problem it's one that I totally get, as you not only have to create an interesting supporting cast but then getting them to stay around is even harder. Slott tried a couple of times to no avail..

Yeah ultimately the classic characters are here to stay, even when they aren't really interesting lol.

He definitely leans hard on that but he seemed to realize it (or his editor did) because it completely disappears after that point, lol.

It came back during Cell saga, since Cell explicitly says that his saiyan cells made him stronger after the self destruct:



(Dragon Ball#413)

But yeah, it's mostly gone, though Toriyama came up with a new asspull in the form of the Room of Spirit and Time anyways, though, at least it's less convenient lol.

I'm also not sure an editor told him to get rid of zenkai, by the time Cell saga happened he already had a new editor, who wasn't as strict as the first one, the only thing I remember him explicitly telling Toriyama to change were related to Cell (He didn't like the initial design and told Toriyama to change it, so Toriyama came up with the transformations, and he didn't like semi perfect Cell too, so he wasn't around that long even though Toriyama planned for semi perfect Cell to do more).

It's also funny Cell says "I've powered up like Son Gohan", I've noticed that it's only when Goku shows off Super Saiyan 3 that Super Saiyan 2 is even called Super Saiyan 2 (And Goku even says "Super Saiyan 2 I guess", so he kinda came up with it on the spot), in Cell saga, SS2 is talked more like it's Gohan's transformation, in Boo saga before SS3, it's called **** like "surpassed the super saiyan" or "power level beyond the Super Saiyan limits":



(Dragon Ball#451)



(Dragon Ball#459)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1899376/20.jpg

(Dragon Ball#473)

Black is fine as a villain but that arc jus annoys me because they dont' plan, they don't make adjustments, they just get beat, go heal, and go back again. The only cool part was when they brough back the evil sealing wave.....only to get rid of it immediately, lol.

It doesn't help that the characters forgot the fucking senzu at random too...

[CaptainUniverse]

That's just "The Spider" all over again lol.

Holy $#%^, you're right! It is "The Spider" all over again...although I bet he is wearing Otto's old costume for branding reasons.

[Lukmendes]

Holy $#%^, you're right! It is "The Spider" all over again...although I bet he is wearing Otto's old costume for branding reasons.

Maybe he'll call himself "The Octopus" this time around .