No more live-action television shows after SAL?

[daBronzeBomma]

I thoroughly enjoy Superman And Lois (SAL).

It's the best live-action Superverse TV show in the 85-years-and-counting history of the character.

But recent episodes have made me realize a painful truth:

For two main reasons, Live-action TV just is not the ideal medium for Superman.


The first reason is obviously budgetary. TV will NEVER have the financial resources (nor the cultural importance) of Feature Films.

A high-end sci-fi /space fantasy character like Superman requires lots of expensive good SFX for most of his stories. Go back and look at any of the previous Superman shows (Adventures Of Superman, Superboy, Lois & Clark, Smallville) and for every decent SFX shot, there are 9 bad ones.

SAL is holding up better than anticipated so far, but that's mainly because they limit costumed Supes to an average of about 5 minutes screentime on a 45 minute show (after commercials).

Less Superman = money saved =/= better storytelling.

The second reason is between his 5 solo shows, TV has now covered Superman extensively from age 14 thru age 44. Sometimes it feels like too much like going over the same ground again.

For example, SAL too often feels like it's trying to be Smallville: The Next Generation.


I dunno ... maybe I'm being too harsh on the limitations of the TV medium.

I just feel like going forward, Superman should be reserved for big-budget feature film series, high-end animation, and (please please please) decent video games.

[Phoenixx9]

In the TV medium of today, for a one-hour program, it is lucky to get 38 minutes of actual show.

[Ascended]

I think Superman is in a tough spot because from the narrative side, tv works in his favor. Clark's got a lot of quiet subtlety in him that a movie simply doesn't have the time to get into. Television lets you really explore the facets of the character and his world, and I think that's essential to getting the character right. All the spectacle in the universe won't matter if you can't spend enough time with Clark to get audiences to understand and root for him.

But as far as effects and scale go, you're right that tv doesn't cut it. The world understands that Superman is supposed to be the strongest dude around, but when his live-action feats aren't living up to that expectation I feel like people are left a little underwhelmed.

I think a Golden Age tv show would be the perfect balance. Lower power levels and a Mad Men style retro aesthetic means Clark's not beyond the effects budget, but you've still got the long-form narrative the characters require. But I'm biased as hell when it comes to the OG.

[CosmeticSkull]

Maybe we won't get any more live-action shows, but at least we'll get My Adventures With Superman.

[Frontier]

I imagine it depends on a lot of factors, but Gunn/Safran focusing on a linewide continuity across media + DC's usual thing about embargoes probably means we won't see another one any time soon.

[Jackalope89]

I thoroughly enjoy Superman And Lois (SAL).

It's the best live-action Superverse TV show in the 85-years-and-counting history of the character.

But recent episodes have made me realize a painful truth:

For two main reasons, Live-action TV just is not the ideal medium for Superman.


The first reason is obviously budgetary. TV will NEVER have the financial resources (nor the cultural importance) of Feature Films.

A high-end sci-fi /space fantasy character like Superman requires lots of expensive good SFX for most of his stories. Go back and look at any of the previous Superman shows (Adventures Of Superman, Superboy, Lois & Clark, Smallville) and for every decent SFX shot, there are 9 bad ones.

SAL is holding up better than anticipated so far, but that's mainly because they limit costumed Supes to an average of about 5 minutes screentime on a 45 minute show (after commercials).

Less Superman = money saved =/= better storytelling.

The second reason is between his 5 solo shows, TV has now covered Superman extensively from age 14 thru age 44. Sometimes it feels like too much like going over the same ground again.

For example, SAL too often feels like it's trying to be Smallville: The Next Generation.


I dunno ... maybe I'm being too harsh on the limitations of the TV medium.

I just feel like going forward, Superman should be reserved for big-budget feature film series, high-end animation, and (please please please) decent video games.

And then you have series like Rings of Power and Halo. RoP at least has nice scenery. Halo, didn't even have that. Why bring them up?
Rings of Power had about $60 million per episode and Halo had about $10 million per episode. The first is a bit mixed in reception, which means that its a big disappointment as a LOTR series. Halo just made Halo game and book fans angry almost every step of the way.

Then we have Superman and Lois. An exception to the usual CW "drama" with an interesting story, characters, and events. The budget being its only real downside. Being $5 million per episode (more than I thought, but at halt of Halo's, they still served the characters justice).

[Vordan]

I imagine it depends on a lot of factors, but Gunn/Safran focusing on a linewide continuity across media + DC's usual thing about embargoes probably means we won't see another one any time soon.

We might get something like The Penguin, I could see an HBO MAX Daily Planet show, but definitely not one starring Clark himself. He’ll be saved for the movies.

[Johnny Thunders!]

The interpersonal drama and relationship stuff slowed me down with all the CW shows. I wonder if a 1/2 hour series would have more punch.

[Frontier]

We might get something like The Penguin, I could see an HBO MAX Daily Planet show, but definitely not one starring Clark himself. He’ll be saved for the movies.

Well, supposedly they're casting people who will reprise their roles across different stuff, though we still don't know how far they'll stretch that.

[superduperman]

I think a lot of it is also the fact that over the air television is dying as a medium in general. Kids today get most of their entertainment from the internet. Why wait for a show to come on with commercials when streaming and YT let you skip both? I also think part of the problem is that CW has never been considered a "real" network. Look at the cultural relevance of L&C vs. Smallville. L&C was on a "real" network and as a result was considered more of a relevant part of the nineties compared to Smallville which was seen as part of a cultural joke of angsty tweens that the network as a whole was known for. Supergirl was on CBS, a supposed "real" network but they didn't want to keep it. I don't know what the numbers were on there compared to CW. There was also the fact that L&C wasn't competing with other media like any modern super hero show would today. I also think part of the problem is oversaturation. Every decade for the last 30 years had a live action Superman show of some kind. He's getting to be like Star Trek towards the end of the nineties. Even if S&L was on a "real" network, I'm not sure how well it would do. S&L might very well be the last Superman show on a regular TV network just because the medium isn't profitable anymore in terms of getting the character in front of young audiences.

[Frontier]

I think a lot of it is also the fact that over the air television is dying as a medium in general. Kids today get most of their entertainment from the internet. Why wait for a show to come on with commercials when streaming and YT let you skip both? I also think part of the problem is that CW has never been considered a "real" network. Look at the cultural relevance of L&C vs. Smallville. L&C was on a "real" network and as a result was considered more of a relevant part of the nineties compared to Smallville which was seen as part of a cultural joke of angsty tweens that the network as a whole was known for. Supergirl was on CBS, a supposed "real" network but they didn't want to keep it. I don't know what the numbers were on there compared to CW. There was also the fact that L&C wasn't competing with other media like any modern super hero show would today. I also think part of the problem is oversaturation. Every decade for the last 30 years had a live action Superman show of some kind. He's getting to be like Star Trek towards the end of the nineties. Even if S&L was on a "real" network, I'm not sure how well it would do. S&L might very well be the last Superman show on a regular TV network just because the medium isn't profitable anymore in terms of getting the character in front of young audiences.

Honestly seems to me that streaming is struggling a lot lately.

[Primal Slayer]

Honestly it just depends on the network. The last two Superman shows have been on TheCW where the budgets are tiny as hell. Put it on a modern day CBS/NBC and it would be fairly fine. Esp this current team would be able to do so much more if they had an average budget.

But yeah I think we definitely have gotten A LOT of Superman on tv and see just about every aspect of the character at this point but...the same can kind of been said about movie Supes as well.

S&L will definitely be the last Superman show for at least the next decade though, thats for sure.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Nah man, i thought we'd never get another live action show after smallville, then he did. Superman by far has more live action shows than any other superhero. I think #2 is the Flash, who had 2, and one was a one season wonder. Superman had 5, all got multiple seasons. I am REALLY REALLY rooting for Superman legacy to be a hit, because I think James Gunn is perfect for the character. GOTG might be my favorite superhero trilogy (....i strongly suspect spiderverse will dethrone it before this time next year, having just seen the new one yesterday). But idk, dc as a brand is in the dumpster. Superhero fatigue is turning it's head towards even the mcu. With James Gunn DCU, my concern is not the quality of the supply Gunn will usher in, its the likely lack of demand. Lets see how the Flash does. I suspect they shot themselves in the foot by cominf out before spiderverse, cuz im definitely gonna see that a second time before even considering seeing Flash. And if I'm right and Gunn really is an overqualified captain of a sinking ship? well we'll being seeing something starring our favorite extraterrestrial boyscout on the small screen by like 2040, if that.

[Digifiend]

Honestly it just depends on the network. The last two Superman shows have been on TheCW where the budgets are tiny as hell. Put it on a modern day CBS/NBC and it would be fairly fine. Esp this current team would be able to do so much more if they had an average budget.

Supergirl did start as a CBS show before it moved to CW.

[Ascended]

Oh, if the question is *will* he ever get another show, the answers obviously yes. I think we forget sometimes just how deeply engrained into our culture this character is. His emblem is a short-hand for an entire declaration. It's a conversation every part of the world knows.

He'll get another show. It'll probably take a decade, it usually does. But of course he'll get another show. And more movies, and more everything.