Are DC heroes and villains really overpowered?

[babyblob]

If the problem is that Batman can put on his special Anti-God armor and stop all his enemies in two minutes if he wanted, then to me, it seems like the solution needs to be take away the armor and don't let him make a new one.

Don't let him keep JLA proof spandex in his closet. If you really need him to have something like that, make sure it's something that he can only use briefly and never again after this one mission. It's unstable or have a power source that will permanently burn out in 30 minutes, something like that.

I agree with this. It is hard to take Killer Croc or Bane as super powered villains who are using Batman as a punching bag as an enjoyable story when you know he has a suit that can One Smack Superman onto his ass in the Batcave.

If he has a suit like that explain why it cant be used when he needs it to be.

[Harrynorine]

I agree with this. It is hard to take Killer Croc or Bane as super powered villains who are using Batman as a punching bag as an enjoyable story when you know he has a suit that can One Smack Superman onto his ass in the Batcave.

If he has a suit like that explain why it cant be used when he needs it to be.

One of the biggest problems of batman is that he is a mortal man that can't be everywhere. So for every robbery he helps stop, there is someone being mugged on the other side of Gotham. Batman literally has a killer robot that can take on the justice league and basically help him fight crime, he keeps it in the batcave to catch webs.

[babyblob]

One of the biggest problems of batman is that he is a mortal man that can't be everywhere. So for every robbery he helps stop, there is someone being mugged on the other side of Gotham. Batman literally has a killer robot that can take on the justice league and basically help him fight crime, he keeps it in the batcave to catch webs.

And that is one of the issues I have with Batman. I loved when he was a mortal man doing mortal things. And I know tech evolves in comics so having Batman has a street level mortal beating up bank robbers and purse snatchers is not going to be his world forever. But if they are going to go the tech heavy route they either need to stick with it for most of his stories or get rid of it all together.

[Stanlos]

And that is one of the issues I have with Batman. I loved when he was a mortal man doing mortal things. And I know tech evolves in comics so having Batman has a street level mortal beating up bank robbers and purse snatchers is not going to be his world forever. But if they are going to go the tech heavy route they either need to stick with it for most of his stories or get rid of it all together.

I think they went derp a do bananas when he started being all I can neutralize the Hsan Ntal and Angel tech on first exposure 1.2500075 seconds bit. He's not Iron Man nor is he Steel or Technocrat or the T face man. He is the world's greatest detective and he is an exceptional fighter. But they write him and sometimes Luthor like they have lived eons and are essentially Gods, all while downplaying or outright jobbing those with Godlike powers or the powers of actual Gods. It's kind of derpy.

[Alan2099]

I think they went derp a do bananas when he started being all I can neutralize the Hsan Ntal and Angel tech on first exposure 1.2500075 seconds bit. He's not Iron Man nor is he Steel or Technocrat or the T face man. He is the world's greatest detective and he is an exceptional fighter. But they write him and sometimes Luthor like they have lived eons and are essentially Gods, all while downplaying or outright jobbing those with Godlike powers or the powers of actual Gods. It's kind of derpy.

and then the next issue, he can barely take three or four average goons in a fight fight and needs help from the entire Batfamily to stop Penguin from pulling off a robbery.

[babyblob]

Everyone paints Batman and Superman as this epic fight. But Superman himself has reached such god like proportions that even when he is holding back he can easily handle anything that Batman can throw at him and do it in a way that does not kill or injure Batman. Dc Comics are a lot of fun to read but I just cant get into the Batman Superman feud even with a suspension of disbelief that we are all supposed to have when reading comics.

[Stanlos]

Everyone paints Batman and Superman as this epic fight. But Superman himself has reached such god like proportions that even when he is holding back he can easily handle anything that Batman can throw at him and do it in a way that does not kill or injure Batman. Dc Comics are a lot of fun to read but I just cant get into the Batman Superman feud even with a suspension of disbelief that we are all supposed to have when reading comics.

That's when I knew the DCEU was doomed. They were starting with BVS. 2 hours and 30 minutes for a NON-FIGHT.

All trace of hope that it MIGHT be good died when I saw Ben's Bruce Wayne doing cross-fit as prep for this NON-FIGHT.

[JackDaw]

and then the next issue, he can barely take three or four average goons in a fight fight and needs help from the entire Batfamily to stop Penguin from pulling off a robbery.

The problem with Batman is that he is so popular he is written into a massive range of stories, for a good number of which his powerset makes him totally unsuitable.

Let’s be realistic any peak human can be taken out double pronto by a ruthless ordinary human with a sub machine gun. And when he comes up against a villain with a strong powerset…should lose double pronto.

In JL stories…he should stick to detective work, and team organisation and should steer well clear of the man to superpowered villain fist fights.

I know most comic fans don’t really care about powersets being taken seriously.But I do…it’s one reason why I don’t read much DC or Marvel material anymore.

[Stanlos]

The problem with Batman is that he is so popular he is written into a massive range of stories, for a good number of which his powerset makes him totally unsuitable.

Let’s be realistic any peak human can be taken out double pronto by a ruthless ordinary human with a sub machine gun. And when he comes up against a villain with a strong powerset…should lose double pronto.

In JL stories…he should stick to detective work, and team organisation and should steer well clear of the man to superpowered villain fist fights.

I know most comic fans don’t really care about powersets being taken seriously.But I do…it’s one reason why I don’t read much DC or Marvel material anymore.

Yes! Yet every time a Christopher Priest or a Chuck Austen comes along and the Leaguer they pick to depict as being incapacitated or overwhelmed on the field is WW. #MakeItMakeSense

[The True Detective]

Everyone paints Batman and Superman as this epic fight. But Superman himself has reached such god like proportions that even when he is holding back he can easily handle anything that Batman can throw at him and do it in a way that does not kill or injure Batman. Dc Comics are a lot of fun to read but I just cant get into the Batman Superman feud even with a suspension of disbelief that we are all supposed to have when reading comics.

So should Superman vs Lex be retired? Should the Flash only face other speedsters?

[Jon Clark]

So should Superman vs Lex be retired? Should the Flash only face other speedsters?

Not necessarily. It's more that Batman keeps throwing the balance off.

Lex is supposed to be a once-in-a-generation mind if not even more rare. You might get a few other characters on his level (Sivana, Michael Holt, Ultra-Humanite) but that list shouldn't include Bruce Wayne on his best day.
In the same way that Bruce shouldn't be able to outshoot Oliver Queen (Green Arrow being devoted to archery where Bruce might practice archery as one of a dozen or more combat skills), Bruce should not be able to compete with Lex on most areas of science, but especially not anti-Kryptonian tech.

And guys like Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Trickster... get more practice dealing with super-speedsters than Bruce does. And those guys still lose most if not all of the time.

The problem isn't that a normal person can't challenge a super-powered hero. It's that when they do it needs more ground-work than "he's Batman and he has a plan". And even with that well-developed ground-work their success should be as much luck as anything else. So if Lex or Felix faust incapacitates the entire Justice League it's a one-off and probably ends with the villain defeated. Not like Batman where he never loses when facing a super-powered foe (though he does lose to non-powered ones).

Or to put it another way- If Batman has plans that can take out Superman, the Flash, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter in under a minute, why hasn't he developed plans to do the same to every criminal in Gotham- especially since he faces them more often?

[The True Detective]

Not necessarily. It's more that Batman keeps throwing the balance off.

Lex is supposed to be a once-in-a-generation mind if not even more rare. You might get a few other characters on his level (Sivana, Michael Holt, Ultra-Humanite) but that list shouldn't include Bruce Wayne on his best day.
In the same way that Bruce shouldn't be able to outshoot Oliver Queen (Green Arrow being devoted to archery where Bruce might practice archery as one of a dozen or more combat skills), Bruce should not be able to compete with Lex on most areas of science, but especially not anti-Kryptonian tech.

And guys like Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Trickster... get more practice dealing with super-speedsters than Bruce does. And those guys still lose most if not all of the time.

The problem isn't that a normal person can't challenge a super-powered hero. It's that when they do it needs more ground-work than "he's Batman and he has a plan". And even with that well-developed ground-work their success should be as much luck as anything else. So if Lex or Felix faust incapacitates the entire Justice League it's a one-off and probably ends with the villain defeated. Not like Batman where he never loses when facing a super-powered foe (though he does lose to non-powered ones).

Or to put it another way- If Batman has plans that can take out Superman, the Flash, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter in under a minute, why hasn't he developed plans to do the same to every criminal in Gotham- especially since he faces them more often?

But babyblob was talking about how Superman has reached epic God like proportions no matter how smart he is Lex shouldn't be anything more than a mild nuisance to him. Your points are contradictory on one hand you say Flash's non speedster Rogues are acceptable because they have experience against speedsters then you mention how Batman supposedly never loses to super-powered enemies.

If Batman has such a good track record against meta's why is it unbelievable that he can beat them? Does that not mean he has lots of success and experience against them? Whether you think he should or not doesn't really matter if he has consistent feats of beating people with powers it's an established part of the character.

Why would he need to devise special plans for regular people? Most of them don't require out of the ordinary prep not like the Penguin is a big enough threat to warrant longterm planning the same way a rogue Superman would. And I don't get not liking Bruce being good in multiple fields but being ok with Lex somehow being a master of every scientific field known to man. It takes years of study just to master 1 form of science should Lex really be great at computer science, engineering, bio chemistry, etc?

[Agent Z]

I think they went derp a do bananas when he started being all I can neutralize the Hsan Ntal and Angel tech on first exposure 1.2500075 seconds bit. He's not Iron Man nor is he Steel or Technocrat or the T face man. He is the world's greatest detective and he is an exceptional fighter. But they write him and sometimes Luthor like they have lived eons and are essentially Gods, all while downplaying or outright jobbing those with Godlike powers or the powers of actual Gods. It's kind of derpy.

Lex has always been a mad scientist so I'm not quite sure this particular criticism applies to him.

He's also frequently outsmarted and humiliated.

[Harrynorine]

Not necessarily. It's more that Batman keeps throwing the balance off.

Lex is supposed to be a once-in-a-generation mind if not even more rare. You might get a few other characters on his level (Sivana, Michael Holt, Ultra-Humanite) but that list shouldn't include Bruce Wayne on his best day.
In the same way that Bruce shouldn't be able to outshoot Oliver Queen (Green Arrow being devoted to archery where Bruce might practice archery as one of a dozen or more combat skills), Bruce should not be able to compete with Lex on most areas of science, but especially not anti-Kryptonian tech.

And guys like Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Trickster... get more practice dealing with super-speedsters than Bruce does. And those guys still lose most if not all of the time.

The problem isn't that a normal person can't challenge a super-powered hero. It's that when they do it needs more ground-work than "he's Batman and he has a plan". And even with that well-developed ground-work their success should be as much luck as anything else. So if Lex or Felix faust incapacitates the entire Justice League it's a one-off and probably ends with the villain defeated. Not like Batman where he never loses when facing a super-powered foe (though he does lose to non-powered ones).

Or to put it another way- If Batman has plans that can take out Superman, the Flash, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter in under a minute, why hasn't he developed plans to do the same to every criminal in Gotham- especially since he faces them more often?

Your opinion of batman reentering earth after surviving a satellite explosion in space.

[Alan2099]

If Batman has such a good track record against meta's why is it unbelievable that he can beat them?

Lex Luthor spends most of his time running his business or preparing a scheme to stop Superman. When he does try out a scheme, it's one that's been developing for months that he's put a lot of effort into.

Batman runs a business, charities, works out, goes on patrol, does Justice League stuff, fights supervillians, studies to be the best at whatever, goes undercover, does rich Playboy stuff, the guy's got a pretty packed schedule.

When Lex Luthor comes out with his plan to kill Superman, we can buy it. It's been a while since he's had one so we know he's had time to work on a new one. Plus we see him with factories and scientists that don't mind doing unscrupulous things.

With Batsy, when he comes out with a Kill Superman plan, it just comes out of nowhere. He doesn't have the time in his schedule either from a realistic or a meta point of view.

Why would he need to devise special plans for regular people?

Because those are the people he swore on his parents grave to stop.
The idea is that he wants to stop criminals. Changing that to him wanting to stop people that he considers his friends on the odd chance that they become criminals is a very slipperly slope to straight up supervillains.

Typically, when we think of a person sitting alone in their secret lair, plotting ways to destroy heroes, we're not thinking of a "good guy."