Are DC heroes and villains really overpowered?

[babyblob]

It has been said but when Lex takes on Supes it is usually something he has been plotting for a long time. A plan he has worked on for him or for others he teams with.

When Batman takes out a super powered threat out of no where the writers always give us the same

'Umm.. Yea he has been thinking about this guy for awhile and just pulled one of the 50 plans he has out of his ass.'

If they are going to have him fight Superpowered and god like threats in JL and other books fine, he is their biggest hero so have him battle the biggest threats. I get it.

But dont have him side step a punch from Reverse Flash then have him bitch slapped in his own mag but The Scarecrow. (Not a real example but the spirit of what I said remains)

Either go all in on God Batman or dont. It is hard to explain why he is taking out "I am going to take over the Earth Space God of the month." With little to no help from the JL Just to have to call in The Bat Family when Two Face kidnaps the mayor.

[Stanlos]

Lex has always been a mad scientist so I'm not quite sure this particular criticism applies to him.

He's also frequently outsmarted and humiliated.

You are right. I was thinking of what Geoff Johns and Scott Snyder specifically did with him. It was UNBEARABLE.

[The True Detective]

Lex Luthor spends most of his time running his business or preparing a scheme to stop Superman. When he does try out a scheme, it's one that's been developing for months that he's put a lot of effort into.

Batman runs a business, charities, works out, goes on patrol, does Justice League stuff, fights supervillians, studies to be the best at whatever, goes undercover, does rich Playboy stuff, the guy's got a pretty packed schedule.

When Lex Luthor comes out with his plan to kill Superman, we can buy it. It's been a while since he's had one so we know he's had time to work on a new one. Plus we see him with factories and scientists that don't mind doing unscrupulous things.

With Batsy, when he comes out with a Kill Superman plan, it just comes out of nowhere. He doesn't have the time in his schedule either from a realistic or a meta point of view.


Because those are the people he swore on his parents grave to stop.
The idea is that he wants to stop criminals. Changing that to him wanting to stop people that he considers his friends on the odd chance that they become criminals is a very slipperly slope to straight up supervillains.

Typically, when we think of a person sitting alone in their secret lair, plotting ways to destroy heroes, we're not thinking of a "good guy."

I think the question is more about ability than time, if Riddler or Penguin spent the rest of their lives planning ways of taking out Superman I don't think they'd ever accomplish it. He's just far too out of their leagues. So whether Bruce thinks about ways of stopping Superman as much as Lex does isn't that big a factor imo. You either have the skills, resources, tech and intelligence to do the job or you don't. A bench player in any sport can train harder and more often than star players but they'll likely never surpass them.

Bruce lives in a world where people get mind controlled all the time it's not that out of the ordinary to think it can happen again or that there'll be an evil clone of them. The League including Superman himself agree with the idea that plans to neutralize them should exist they just don't like Bruce not letting them know he has the plans in the first place. A real slippery slope to me is why the rest of the League allows low level street crime to even exist especially in Gotham. How easy would it be for Wonder Woman, since she has no problem killing when it's necessary, to quickly use her faster than light speed to toss Joker into the sun? Or at the very least round up every villain in the less than 2 seconds it'd take for her or any Leaguer with superspeed to do.

It's best not to play the "why doesn't X do Y?" game because then you'd have to apply that realistic thinking to everything when it's all just mostly silly entertainment at the end of the day.

[NaVi]

The reason why it bothers that Batman can defeat super-powered heroes is the way the characters are written.
The human characters are written as intelligent, skillful, strategists, the powerful are only powers, they are not allowed to stand out in anything else.
You will never see Superman/WW/Flash, etc without powers defeating Batman based on pure skill and strategy.

[NaVi]

I think the question is more about ability than time, if Riddler or Penguin spent the rest of their lives planning ways of taking out Superman I don't think they'd ever accomplish it. He's just far too out of their leagues. So whether Bruce thinks about ways of stopping Superman as much as Lex does isn't that big a factor imo. You either have the skills, resources, tech and intelligence to do the job or you don't. A bench player in any sport can train harder and more often than star players but they'll likely never surpass them.

Bruce lives in a world where people get mind controlled all the time it's not that out of the ordinary to think it can happen again or that there'll be an evil clone of them. The League including Superman himself agree with the idea that plans to neutralize them should exist they just don't like Bruce not letting them know he has the plans in the first place. A real slippery slope to me is why the rest of the League allows low level street crime to even exist especially in Gotham. How easy would it be for Wonder Woman, since she has no problem killing when it's necessary, to quickly use her faster than light speed to toss Joker into the sun? Or at the very least round up every villain in the less than 2 seconds it'd take for her or any Leaguer with superspeed to do.

It's best not to play the "why doesn't X do Y?" game because then you'd have to apply that realistic thinking to everything when it's all just mostly silly entertainment at the end of the day.

How are they going to throw the Joker into the sun, if the Joker has controlled(defeated) all of JL.

[JackDaw]

The reason why it bothers that Batman can defeat super-powered heroes is the way the characters are written.
The human characters are written as intelligent, skillful, strategists, the powerful are only powers, they are not allowed to stand out in anything else.
You will never see Superman/WW/Flash, etc without powers defeating Batman based on pure skill and strategy.

The idea that Batman can defeat super powered foes by science, pre-planning, wealth and technology, brains (basically same attributes as Lex Luthor) doesn’t bother me at at all.

Where it gets boring/ irritating for me is when he effectively fist fights super powered villains, dodges bullets, etc. He can’t do that IF he was written consistent to his power set.

[babyblob]

The idea that Batman can defeat super powered foes by science, pre-planning, wealth and technology, brains (basically same attributes as Lex Luthor) doesn’t bother me at at all.

Where it gets boring/ irritating for me is when he effectively fist fights super powered villains, dodges bullets, etc. He can’t do that IF he was written consistent to his power set.

I guess my problem for me is if he uses massive tech on one villain why not all of them?

I know he does not need a super suit to beat Scarecrow and Mad Hatter. But if he was being written to his "I have to stop the threat as fast and efficient as possible to save lives." then he would use any means in his arsenal to bring down the threats.

[JackDaw]

I guess my problem for me is if he uses massive tech on one villain why not all of them?

I know he does not need a super suit to beat Scarecrow and Mad Hatter. But if he was being written to his "I have to stop the threat as fast and efficient as possible to save lives." then he would use any means in his arsenal to bring down the threats.

That’s a good argument I think: effectively he should go the Iron Man route with skill set/ attitude he is written as now having.

[Harrynorine]

The idea that Batman can defeat super powered foes by science, pre-planning, wealth and technology, brains (basically same attributes as Lex Luthor) doesn’t bother me at at all.

Where it gets boring/ irritating for me is when he effectively fist fights super powered villains, dodges bullets, etc. He can’t do that IF he was written consistent to his power set.

Do not forget surviving a satellite blowing up in space and then reentering earth's atmosphere.

[Alan2099]

That’s a good argument I think: effectively he should go the Iron Man route with skill set/ attitude he is written as now having.

Okay. Then what? Who does he fight? If the guy's flying around in super strong bullet proof armor that shoots lasers, you can't expect Riddler, Penguin or Two-Face to give him a hassle anymore. Nor can you expect allies like Catwoman or Nightwing to be able to keep up.

[Lee Stone]

One of the reasons I still like pulp adventurers, and why I partly prefer the Golden Age.
Heroes weren't invulnerable.

One of my favorite scenes in Batman: Year One (the comics) is when Batman gets winded during an encounter on a fire escape. That humanized him for me.
I totally overlooked him kicking a tree because it was downplayed in the comic.

When I finally got around to watching the animated movie, and he kicked a tree in half, I was like 'what in the..?' and stopped watching it.

If Batman can be superhuman with just normal training and human resources, what's the point of Superman?

[babyblob]

Okay. Then what? Who does he fight? If the guy's flying around in super strong bullet proof armor that shoots lasers, you can't expect Riddler, Penguin or Two-Face to give him a hassle anymore. Nor can you expect allies like Catwoman or Nightwing to be able to keep up.

If they write him all the time as being able to give Superman trouble and taking down super powered beings in Justice League then Riddle, Penguin and Two Face should not be able to give him hassle to start with. And that is the problem.

[Ra-El]

DC characters aren't that overpowered when compared to Marvel characters.

Currently every Omega mutant are basically reality warpers with how badly defined their powers are. The energy manipulators can do whatever the writers want because reasons.
Then you have the telekinetics who can move atoms and do whatever they want with it. The time manipulators who can remake history to their liking, a guy who can ask the universe to move the sun around, etc.

Say whatever you want about DC powerhouses, but at least their powers aren't so abstract that anything is possible.

[JackDaw]

Okay. Then what? Who does he fight? If the guy's flying around in super strong bullet proof armor that shoots lasers, you can't expect Riddler, Penguin or Two-Face to give him a hassle anymore. Nor can you expect allies like Catwoman or Nightwing to be able to keep up.

I don’t think he should have the massive skill/ power set he’s been given now. He should stick to being World.s best detective, seeking to outwit Riddler, etc…and avoid direct fighting villains with strong super powers.

It’s telling I think that Wildstorms Midnighter…effectively their Batman in terms of feats…actually has very strong super powers. (Inhuman strength, super durability, incredible speed and reflexes, and ability to compute millions of battle scenarios per second.)

It’s just my preference, of course…and it’s why I avoid team comics these days like Justice League. If I read a Batman story, I look for one where Batman takes on low level (in terms of powers) villains.

[The True Detective]

I guess my problem for me is if he uses massive tech on one villain why not all of them?

I know he does not need a super suit to beat Scarecrow and Mad Hatter. But if he was being written to his "I have to stop the threat as fast and efficient as possible to save lives." then he would use any means in his arsenal to bring down the threats.

That's like asking why Flash doesn't use his faster than light speed to stop all low level crime on earth what would your reasoning for that be? There are how many FTL heroes around? Why don't they run around the world and stop all non metahuman non speedster crime? Surely that wouldn't be hard for someone who can run around the planet multiple times in the time it takes you to blink.

That doesn't happen because the writers don't want it to happen because then the stories would be less interesting and that's more important than realism. Do you ever ask why Superman doesn't rip Lex out of his Warsuit before Lex's brain can comprehend what the hell's happening?

We're supposed to believe Superman can take on an impossibly smart alien like Brainiac and Darkseid but a really smart human is his archenemy? Sorry I don't care how smart and prepared Lex is, how long he preps for it or that he always loses in the end. Superman should treat Lex like a mild nuisance at best not one of his biggest threats. Lex is no more believable against Clark than Bruce is.