Birds of Prey by Kelley Thompson and Leo Romero

[The Cool Thatguy]

Tim and Cassandra being the first Robin and Batgirl with solos is exactly the kind of thing DC couldn't repeat (even with these characters). Their comics was the first time Robin and Batgirl have solo comics, I really doubt that situation didn't help the sales.

The current market is different, but I really doubt fear really prevent people to try characters they are interested. It's more likely that tastes have changed and not so many people are interested in what the characters previously offered.


PS: Dick as Robin has solo adventures in Star Spangled Comics, but it wasn't exactly a Robin solo.

Babs' was out of the suit for almost a decade, and Tim was a fresh face.

I think you have things backwards. They weren't popular because they were the first mantle holders to have their own series, they were popular enough to get their own series. Being under the Bat department certainly helped, to be fair.

Cass wasn't cancelled because she was unpopular, her series outsold several OYL series that were brought back, including Catwoman. She was kept suppressed for a decade by the powers that be.

Any and all fans can see the puppet strings clear as day in this information age, and we know what they mean.

[Ascended]

Past popularity demonstrates that the characters are capable of building and holding a fanbase with sustained effort. We simply don't see any such efforts anymore.

Not quite. Past popularity could be associated with certain circumstances that they don't necessarily could repeat.

Both are true.

IP that have already proven their value and sustainability are usually preferable to unproven ones in a lot of ways. For one thing, you can look back and see what worked and what didn't, and refine your approach.

But past success is also linked to variables in the era in which it happened. What events and cultural tides did the original material tap into that made it popular? Sometimes those variables change or evaporate entirely.

And in any case, the DC of the last ten-twenty years wasn't capable of long-term strategy and didn't seem to look much further than the next fiscal quarter. So most everything was doomed anyway. The new regime...I dunno yet.

[Konja7]

Babs' was out of the suit for almost a decade, and Tim was a fresh face.

I think you have things backwards. They weren't popular because they were the first mantle holders to have their own series, they were popular enough to get their own series. Being under the Bat department certainly helped, to be fair.

Cass wasn't cancelled because she was unpopular, her series outsold several OYL series that were brought back, including Catwoman. She was kept suppressed for a decade by the powers that be.

Any and all fans can see the puppet strings clear as day in this information age, and we know what they mean.

It's true that Tim has minis before he gets a solo, but I've understood that Cassandra was directly created to have a solo after No Man Land. As you said, being part of the Bat editorial likely helped at that time.

I'm not trying to deny Tim or Cassandra popularity at the time (I've also agree that the cancellation of Cassandra Batgirl solo was pretty unfair). I just doubt they could really repeat the circunstances why these characters were so popular at that time.


Fans could see puppet strings, but they also try to help their favorite characters. It's true that cancellations could be influenced for other things than sales, but it's unlikely they will cancel an extremely good seller.

[PUGSSSS001]

Fans could see puppet strings, but they also try to help their favorite characters. It's true that cancellations could be influenced for other things than sales, but it's unlikely they will cancel an extremely good seller.

I'm unsure why anyone should actively support a supbar project or something they won't enjoy. That's some pretty obtuse thinking.

[Konja7]

I'm unsure why anyone should actively support a supbar project or something they won't enjoy. That's some pretty obtuse thinking.

This wasn't my opinion. I wasn't saying they should support it.

I was just describing the behaviour of many fans, which will support their favorite characters even if the quality isn't good enough.

[Mantis-Ray]

I think the funniest thing here is that the claim that this would be the most "dangerous" team yet. Which is arguably true in the cases of like Cass, Barda, Zealot, we now have a character who's basically kooky clown lady.

She's just an acrobatic with minor enhanced physical abilities who swings a hammer. And her intelligence is overstated, all she does that's intelligent is just make a "therapist overnanalyzes you" joke but otherwise never comes off as particularly intelligent.

And then there's the tag line "A team always needs a wild card" nots not what a wildcard means. Harley keeps being called this to inflate her supposed value on any team, a wildcard is just someone who can operate independently, Harley is a terrible wildcard because she's just a lunatic who can't think through any of her actions.

Waller has been pulling that excuse for years to justify her placement in the Squad and it'd still stupid everytime.

[HsssH]

Plus Harley does have an active history of taking over team books.

The modern Suicide Squad's decline is in part because she's a constant mainstay. Unlike Deadshot or Captain Boomerang, they can't go one book anymore without having her in it.

I'm not sure about that, Suicide Squad was pretty much dead before Harley was added in New 52 relaunch.

[Frontier]

I think the funniest thing here is that the claim that this would be the most "dangerous" team yet. Which is arguably true in the cases of like Cass, Barda, Zealot, we now have a character who's basically kooky clown lady.

She's just an acrobatic with minor enhanced physical abilities who swings a hammer. And her intelligence is overstated, all she does that's intelligent is just make a "therapist overnanalyzes you" joke but otherwise never comes off as particularly intelligent.

And then there's the tag line "A team always needs a wild card" nots not what a wildcard means. Harley keeps being called this to inflate her supposed value on any team, a wildcard is just someone who can operate independently, Harley is a terrible wildcard because she's just a lunatic who can't think through any of her actions.

Waller has been pulling that excuse for years to justify her placement in the Squad and it'd still stupid everytime.

Yeah, I can't really see what she brings to the table of this team other than publicity and jokes.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yeah, I can't really see what she brings to the table of this team other than publicity and jokes.

In theory, criminal contacts. We'll see, I suppose

[Aahz]

I think the funniest thing here is that the claim that this would be the most "dangerous" team yet. Which is arguably true in the cases of like Cass, Barda, Zealot, we now have a character who's basically kooky clown lady.

The team seems actually a bit one sided when it comes to capabilities, I mean you have 4 characters with skills sets that boil mostly down to great fighters, and Harley Quinn.

[Majesty]

Harley has been used as the wild card so many times I have a hard time believing she'd come as a surprise attack to anyone anymore.

[j9ac9k]

Harley is to the BoP what Batman is to the Justice League. Batman's obviously outclassed,(even moreso in the JL compared to HQ) he's "just a guy in a bat costume," but writers can think of ways to justify his place on a team that deals with universal threats and we buy it cuz ... comics. If you simply don't like Harley, it's one thing, but this entire universe hinges on people not being able to recognize Superman when he puts on glasses - that's the bar that's been set in terms of suspension of disbelief, so anyone can justifiably be on any team if the writer can imagine a reason.

[j9ac9k]

Ha, she has heels:

Man, I really hope she gets a new outfit. my first thought seeing this was "second-rate version of Katana's old custume." Second was "this thing is too bulky for Zealot - she's supposed to be an agile fighter, not a tank." Third was "wtf are those heels??" They really stick out like a sore thumb. Aside from the general decline overall of their usage, it can be okay for some characters who are into their appearance, or who have powers that don't require footwork, but Zealot's a fighter. They seem especially out of place on her ... and they totally clash with samurai armor! I mean, that's an insane combo.

[Nite-Wing]

Harley is to the BoP what Batman is to the Justice League. Batman's obviously outclassed,(even moreso in the JL compared to HQ) he's "just a guy in a bat costume," but writers can think of ways to justify his place on a team that deals with universal threats and we buy it cuz ... comics. If you simply don't like Harley, it's one thing, but this entire universe hinges on people not being able to recognize Superman when he puts on glasses - that's the bar that's been set in terms of suspension of disbelief, so anyone can justifiably be on any team if the writer can imagine a reason.

Harley is the crazy one who kills
Harley is the funny comic relief
Harley is the wild card
etc

Its not hard to write a role for the character in these types of books compared to Batman I'd say she's a better fit

[j9ac9k]

Harley is the crazy one who kills...

I'm not too familiar with this version of Zealot, but does she not kill? I'd think Barda would be okay with killing as well. (although not as a loose cannon like HQ - but is she that homicidal anymore? I haven't read her in comics in awhile and the times I did, she was more comedic than homicidal)