My Adventures With Superman S1: Spoilers & Discussion

[Frontier]

And whose fault is that? Not my problem that DC animation guys dropped the ball and didn’t want to do anything besides Batman. We should have gotten a Superman cartoon between MAWS and STAS, but we didn’t so I’m not inclined to be generous towards them. This show is here and its take on the civilian supporting cast is the best I’ve seen. Maybe they’ll bungle that but that’s where things stand currently.

And I get that, though I guess we've at least got plenty of live-action adaptions too.

Lois and Clark never got together in the DCAU, and her being used to prop up Batman means she’ll never be the best Lois to me. I plan on rewatching STAS soon and I expect it is not going to hold up well, particularly because the creatives involved didn’t even want to do it.

They did though, at the very end of the show. Well, Lois and Superman did but there was an edict from DC that they weren't allowed to conclusively say Lois knew Clark was Superman even though they were clearly dating.

Setting aside World's Finest (and I think even Aquaman had the hots for Lois in that show) I think DCAU Lois holds up really well.

The villains are the big weakness, but that holds true for the DCAU too. Timm didn’t even bother to include Silver Banshee at all, so it’s just a disappointing trend of Superman’s Rogues drawing the short straw. Their Sam Lane is great, I’m hopeful that Brainiac and Mxy will be too.

I mean, Luthor, Brainaic, Bizarro, Livewire, Metallo, Toyman, Parasite...I don't feel like the DCAU dropped the ball on the villains that much.

Though I think the lack of Superman cartoons is another factor in the reception to the villains because they so rarely get the same spotlight as the Bat-Rogues and now in an actual Superman show they don't seem to be standing out that much either.

But what if it's an Asian guy with a white wife?

Probably a moot point because Lois' mom is dead anyways.

[AJpyro]

On the Evil Krypton front, I kinda hope later seasons do an adaptation of New Krypton.

[Vordan]

If they get another two season order then they could have Zod as the Big Bad and do an adaption of New Krypton. I’d be down for that.

[Prime]

Why does Clark give me Gohan vibes? If anything it should be Goku but he acts more like Gohan.

[manwhohaseverything]

Why does Clark give me Gohan vibes? If anything it should be Goku but he acts more like Gohan.

Nah!gohan fit.The great saiyaman.Clark and goku have only one thing in common.They were both rocketed off alien babies.That too cause of toriyama said "fuck it" when it came to back stories. Goku is not the hero type.

[BBally]

The jumping off the building scene is kind of in character for different incarnations of Lois but it's also one of my least favorite aspects of the character and I wish writers would stop using that.

It was annoying when done in the comics, it was annoying when done in Superman 2 and it was annoying here.

[Immortal Weapon]

Why does Clark give me Gohan vibes? If anything it should be Goku but he acts more like Gohan.

Gohan is the right vibe. Goku is an irresponsible and neglectful dumbass. We don't need a Superman like that.

[Vakanai]

I think it's a mix of the villains feeling underdeveloped, not really looking like (or acting) like themselves, and their designs just not being very memorable. Parasite was probably the best they've done in my opinion.

Again though, given the story wouldn't change nor the lack of build up and it'd still be limited screen time, would making them metahuman or giving them their classic designs really make it better or change anything? It might make us fans happier to see them look like the comic book versions, but to those who don't read the comics would it really make a difference? They'd still be underdeveloped, uninteresting, and mostly quick fights. The real flaws would remain. The problem is really they're not the main focus and aren't developed, the design and tech vs powers thing is distant concerns at best compared to the fact just not much time and zero development is spent on them.

It's like a show like the Spectacular Spider-Man was able to balance out the human and personal drama while still delivering on establishing the villains as memorable and capturing what makes them iconic, but I don't feel this show has quite done that. And that's probably why it's consistently seen as the weakest aspect of the show.

Ugh, not "let's compare this show to the greatest superhero cartoon of all time!" again. A few things.
1. Spec Spidey is the greatest superhero animated series we've ever had, it's ridiculous to compare MAWS to it. Even Spider-Man hasn't been able to have a show as good as that since. Compare this to Ultimate Spider-Man or Marvel's Spider-Man if you have to compare this to any Spider-Man cartoon, don't compare it to the one show that's near impossible for any other cartoon to reach ok, it's not fair.

2. Yes Spec "was able to balance out the human and personal drama while still delivering on establishing the villains" but you're wrong about how much time was spent on the supporting cast over all per episode. We're getting more Jimmy and Lois stuff every episode vs the Harry and Gwen stuff we had every episode then. It was balanced, but we still got less of this particular bit per episode. MAWS isn't balancing the two aspects, it's not giving them equal time, it is focused primarily on the interactions between Clark and his supporting cast. More time is given to them, less on the villains, while Spec Spidey was more balanced but still gave more time and focus to setting up the villains than to Harry and Gwen and others. We just tend to like that better.

Look, this isn't the "balance" show, this show clearly is the show where Clark's personal friendships and relationships receive pride of place over the villains. And love it or hate it, no other superhero cartoon has ever had this much focus on the supporting cast, not even Spectacular Spider-Man.

3. Yes, it's consistently seen as the weakest aspect of this show, because it is. But it also seems like to a degree that's by design - the villain stuff feels weird to us because it is the secondary focus, the B plot, and in no other superhero show has that ever been the case. Honestly this shouldn't be compared to modern superhero cartoons at all, the closest spiritual "contemporary" this show has isn't animated. Closest relative to this show is Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. And the villain stuff there also wasn't much to write home about...
Actually this is probably the closest spiritual sequel to L&C we'll ever get.

[Vakanai]

For the villains, I think it’s just that they’re too different design and characterization wise from what you’d expect, and the revamps aren’t really better than what came before. Can’t blame the show really, until the current PKJ/Williamson era, no one was doing anything with Superman’s Rogues outside of Lex. Livewire for example hadn’t been relevant to Superman in ages, and when she did appear they made no mention of her shock jockey background, she was just the angry electric girl… which is what she is in MAWS! No wonder MAWS felt comfortable doing radical redesigns. I mean hell, it’s never been particularly relevant who has been the Parasite, not like it’s crucial that it be Rudy Jones. Silver Banshee got her first good story in Christ knows how long with Williamson. I totally get why they’re taking big swings even if I wish they had been able to take inspiration from the current era. Least their Brainiac is probably going to be a traditional take, and I’m very excited/eager for their Mxy. Still, they should have prioritized using Superman Rogues over bringing in general DCU villains, it absolutely should be Bloodsport here instead of Deathstroke.

Honestly I don't mind Deathstroke being here. Plus I just looked through Bloodsport's wiki entry and he wouldn't fit in this role anyways - Bloodsport never served under the military/government according to a quick look through, DuBois having been a Vietnam draft dodger. Deathstroke before going all evil mercenary supervillain did serve, so works better serving the government here. I'd save Bloodsport for when Waller's forcing criminals to serve in Task Force X.

[Ascended]

I think the main problem with the villains is that story-wise they're the B-plot. We're superhero comic book junkies, and the hero vs villain stuff is always the A-plot. But here it's secondary.

This is true, and the situation wouldn't be any better if the villains were more traditional, but B-plots can (and should) still deliver quality, rounded characters. There's limited screen time to develop the villains here, but the show could still be giving us more with the time we do get.

Actually if the villains were more traditional, things would likely be worse. At least with the tech angle there's connective tissue between all these guys, which serves one of the major subplots of the season and can be used to develop them more as the story goes along. If we had normal versions of Parasite and Heat Wave and Livewire, etc., we wouldn't have that connection to build on.

Which you know what? I'm okay with that. Episodes are too short to give us all the Daily Planet trio awesomeness and better villain plots, and between the two I'll take Lois and Jimmy getting more love any time. Getting my Superman vs random villain fix is easy, getting some decent Superman supporting cast stuff is darn hard.

Agreed. I'm not thrilled that the villains are so two dimensional and throw-away, but if my choice is them or the Planet staff getting screen time and development then I'm glad it's Lois and Jimmy getting the love. Absolutely adore them here. And when was the last time Steve Lombard mattered at all, much less got a little development that made you feel for the guy? I think whatever failings MAWS has with the villains, they more than make up for it with the supporting cast.

As for General Lane, I like how they seem to be using him here. I hate Sam when he's just a Thunderbolt Ross rip-off, he's much better when he's a (relatively) good man, a good soldier, and his conflict with Superman is born out of pragmatic duty. I think the dynamic here is going to be really fun and interesting.

I suppose Sam could've been white while his wife was Japanese, like some comics have done (American Alien) but I'm fine with this. For one, since we never hear Sam's name this helps us recognize it's Sam and not, say, General Eiling or someone.

[Vakanai]

Not for me. The villains being the b-plot is fine to me. These villains are underdeveloped, incompetent and cut from the same mold. They feel like MCU villains.

I'm also okay with MCU villains, so that helps.
I'm enjoying what this show is rather than what others want this show to be. And what this show is is the "Clark and Lois and Jimmy Show! Featuring villain of the week."

[Confuzzled]

The jumping off the building scene is kind of in character for different incarnations of Lois but it's also one of my least favorite aspects of the character and I wish writers would stop using that.

It was annoying when done in the comics, it was annoying when done in Superman 2 and it was annoying here.

Well, they can't have Lois firing blanks at Clark in this day and age

[Mantis-Ray]

I'm also okay with MCU villains, so that helps.
I'm enjoying what this show is rather than what others want this show to be. And what this show is is the "Clark and Lois and Jimmy Show! Featuring villain of the week."

See I have no problem with that. I don't mind that the villains are secondary focus.

I just don't like how blah their designs are. The main appeal with villains is to see their fun and wacky cool designs so the show taking an extremally toned theme with their designs means there's not really much to look forward too because of how bland they all look at the moment.

Its why Parasite is my favorite villain at the moment cause his big purple armor monster look is legitimately fun.

[Vakanai]

Agreed. I'm not thrilled that the villains are so two dimensional and throw-away, but if my choice is them or the Planet staff getting screen time and development then I'm glad it's Lois and Jimmy getting the love. Absolutely adore them here. And when was the last time Steve Lombard mattered at all, much less got a little development that made you feel for the guy? I think whatever failings MAWS has with the villains, they more than make up for it with the supporting cast.

Right? They gave Lombard depth, and not just depth but depth that fits the character instead of feeling tacked on and out of place with the guy. That's damn hard to do considering what a stereotype he's usually portrayed as! I hope others who might write the character are taking notes. Loved his back and forth with Jimmy, how he both was revealed as the guy dissing on Jimmy's Flamebird videos but also was legitimately trying to give advice and connect.

As for General Lane, I like how they seem to be using him here. I hate Sam when he's just a Thunderbolt Ross rip-off, he's much better when he's a (relatively) good man, a good soldier, and his conflict with Superman is born out of pragmatic duty. I think the dynamic here is going to be really fun and interesting.

Agreed, I hate "only a villain Lane" takes on him, guy's flawed very deeply and can be very antagonistic to Superman, but he should be a good man deep down. Or maybe I'm just spoiled on such decent takes on the guy now from Superman & Lois and the Lois Lane YA novel trilogy.

I suppose Sam could've been white while his wife was Japanese, like some comics have done (American Alien) but I'm fine with this. For one, since we never hear Sam's name this helps us recognize it's Sam and not, say, General Eiling or someone.

I honestly don't care that Sam's an Asian-American in this, it works. He's still a general, still an anti-alien thorn in Clark's side, still a good man not willing to have innocent casualties (unlike Waller who is, well, freaking Waller), still Lois' mostly or least semi estranged father. My only qualm is his design does nothing for the "big in the middle" general/older military official stereotype, preferring he'd still look in better cardio shape, but clearly he's at least not missing arm day I guess. But that's a nitpick.

[Vakanai]

See I have no problem with that. I don't mind that the villains are secondary focus.

I just don't like how blah their designs are. The main appeal with villains is to see their fun and wacky cool designs so the show taking an extremally toned theme with their designs means there's not really much to look forward too because of how bland they all look at the moment.

Its why Parasite is my favorite villain at the moment cause his big purple armor monster look is legitimately fun.

That's fair.

And while I'm probably alone in the matter - I actually like Silver Banshee's big mask design. Think the rest of her look let her down, but the mask was pretty cool. But yeah Parasite as a purple mecha armor that went more kaiju as it absorbed attacks was outright great in my opinion.