X-Men #23 - Review/Spoilers

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Getting Scott and Jean back together for the soft-reboot was already forced (it was just like suddenly putting Xavier back in a wheelchair for the launch of adjectiveless X-Men), and it didn't help that there's been vanishingly little visible love or chemistry between them since they got back together for the Krakoa soft-reboot. Duggan wants us to be agog at the possibility of them splitting up, but the better question is: why are they together to begin with? It's like they met up on Krakoa and felt mutually obligated to get back to it since their marriage was never annulled.

I can't remember now, but was there ever a sequence where we see Jean and Scott together in the bedroom, and Scott tells her what he's been up to since she died? Like, "okay, read my mind, I've been through a lot and I might not be the same person you remember, and there's a lot you need to know about before this goes any farther."

The bold is the literal, meta reason. They got back together because the editors/executives demanded it, no story needed lol.

[Mercury]

The bold is the literal, meta reason. They got back together because the editors/executives demanded it, no story needed lol.

The story unfolded during their time displacement era, Phoenix Resurrection, and after the Age of X-Man. Had Jean and Scott been depicted as separated at the outset of the Krakoan era, it would have seemed forced and confusing, especially considering the aforementioned stories and the fact that forgiveness abounded. That said, I think Hickman presented an interesting dynamic with the polyamorous angle, which was meant to symbolize the headiness of the times as much as Jean and Scott's sense of trust and confidence in one another.

[Devaishwarya]

I don't know.

It seems as though the kitchen sinks are being thrown in just for the sake of making this version of the "decimation plot" bigger and much worse that all the ones that came before.

I get it's about bringing everything to a head and crushing Krakoa into dirt before the heroes rally and launch a proper defense but up to this point the Mutants have been written as utterly clueless and incompetent across the board. Based off of Orlando's one-shot they seemed to have an iota of a clue (just by JBen's thread)...but I'm yet to read where they're actually gathering information and resources to actually engage Orchis head on. Is there no one smart enough to start putting "two and two" together? At what point do they actually go into the War Room and start planning and strategising? Because so far we've only seen the Orchis agents planning and making moves while the mutants are helter skelter all over collecting cuts and bruises.

I know they said things will get far worse before they get better but I didn't think they also meant the writing.

And can we just kill ALL the Sinisters? Please! Oh Goddess...MR, Stasis are so fucking annoying.

[jwatson]

I don't know.

It seems as though the kitchen sinks are being thrown in just for the sake of making this version of the "decimation plot" bigger and much worse that all the ones that came before.

I get it's about bringing everything to a head and crushing Krakoa into dirt before the heroes rally and launch a proper defense but up to this point the Mutants have been written as utterly clueless and incompetent across the board. Based off of Orlando's one-shot they seemed to have an iota of a clue (just by JBen's thread)...but I'm yet to read where they're actually gathering information and resources to actually engage Orchis head on. Is there no one smart enough to start putting "two and two" together? At what point do they actually go into the War Room and start planning and strategising? Because so far we've only seen the Orchis agents planning and making moves while the mutants are helter skelter all over collecting cuts and bruises.

I know they said things will get far worse before they get better but I didn't think they also meant the writing.

And can we just kill ALL the Sinisters? Please! Oh Goddess...MR, Stasis are so fucking annoying.

Yes this has been a huge issue for me. It's like Orichis dead a$$ attacking cluelss children at this point not some mutant gods or whatever. At this point i can't even really take some of it too seriously. They have made the x-men overall so inept in the attempt to give all the ideas and growth to orichis that it just looks like a group of bullies attacking baby hippies to me.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

The story unfolded during their time displacement era, Phoenix Resurrection, and after the Age of X-Man. Had Jean and Scott been depicted as separated at the outset of the Krakoan era, it would have seemed forced and confusing, especially considering the aforementioned stories and the fact that forgiveness abounded. That said, I think Hickman presented an interesting dynamic with the polyamorous angle, which was meant to symbolize the headiness of the times as much as Jean and Scott's sense of trust and confidence in one another.

The "poly" thing, as much as it was a thing, it was functional. He wasn't interested in people being concerned about who was with who. Regardless, how the characters got to a state of sharing (Jean, Logan, and Scott) and how they reconciled that Scemma suddenly never mattered were points of interest. If we are going to just skip past depicting the moments where character relationships change, why even print the comics? I'm just going to assume laziness or disinterest anyway if they don't actually lay out the story explicitly, so they might as well actually put the details on the screen/paper.

"Jean and Emma share clothes now, don't worry about it." and similar moments of disinterested handwaving, are not quality storytelling to me, especially not when they remove interpersonal drama. It's so bass-ackward. smh

[v_jeovanne]

Exactly. It wasn't really believable they just got back together in the first place.

He's working on it. His Scott at this point is as bad as Rosenberg's, but in the opposite direction- Rosenberg's was too dramatic, this one too light and dumb.

So what have I been reading all these years?

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[Havok83]

Can anyone tell me why Scott was in his 90's attire? Did I miss something?

No. From the start of this era we were told the characters could and would be seen in costumes from their past. It doesn’t happen too often but has occasionally. More like JC wanted to draw it

[RAWRlrus]

The "poly" thing, as much as it was a thing, it was functional. He wasn't interested in people being concerned about who was with who. Regardless, how the characters got to a state of sharing (Jean, Logan, and Scott) and how they reconciled that Scemma suddenly never mattered were points of interest. If we are going to just skip past depicting the moments where character relationships change, why even print the comics? I'm just going to assume laziness or disinterest anyway if they don't actually lay out the story explicitly, so they might as actually put the details on the screen/paper.

"Jean and Emma share clothes now, don't worry about it." and similar moments of disinterested handwaving, are not quality storytelling to me, especially not when they remove interpersonal drama. It's so bass-ackward. smh

Part of the poly/open marriage thing where Scemma is concerned is it was the least apparent part of it, to the point where IMO it's easily argued it wasn't her. The Sinister Secret only mentions Jean and Scott and says that there is an open relationship. Logan is at the family dinner with everyone else (Emma isn't), Logan has a room next to Jean, Emma doesn't have a room even though there's an empty one in the same area as Vulcan and Havok. There's a scene where Logan and Jean have sex but there's nothing even remotely close between Scott and Emma.

The poly/open marriage thing was an attempt to be functional but it failed IMO, not because of it being poly or open but because it was generally so vague. Even the above mentioned stuff is vague to that point. Is Logan just a friend whose over a lot and gets his own room or is he part of the relationship? Is Jean cheating on Scott with Logan or is it poly/open? They don't confirm one way or another. People are going ship their ships, things need to be confirmed or its just pointless.

[Mercury]

The "poly" thing, as much as it was a thing, it was functional. He wasn't interested in people being concerned about who was with who. Regardless, how the characters got to a state of sharing (Jean, Logan, and Scott) and how they reconciled that Scemma suddenly never mattered were points of interest.

This is certainly fair to point out.

If we are going to just skip past depicting the moments where character relationships change, why even print the comics? I'm just going to assume laziness or disinterest anyway if they don't actually lay out the story explicitly, so they might as well actually put the details on the screen/paper.

I agree! Then again, we're in an era of comics that is more focused on plot- versus character-driven stories.

"Jean and Emma share clothes now, don't worry about it." and similar moments of disinterested handwaving, are not quality storytelling to me, especially not when they remove interpersonal drama. It's so bass-ackward. smh

See above.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I just finished reading this issue which I found a bit uneven but ultimately enjoyable.

Duggan does a good job at selling both Mother Righteous (as if there were any doubts) and the Stark Sentinels as a serious threat: the fight with the latter takes up a lot of space and is not terribly entertaining but I concede it was necessary to show why these new robots couldn't just be waived away like a regular Sentinel.

The finale falls a bit flat for me though, the Scott/Emma exchange is not as funny as Duggan intended I'm afraid and the change of topic to Ms. Marvel is abrupt and a bit out of place. Still, I felt it was a pretty good issue overall.

[RAWRlrus]

The finale falls a bit flat for me though, the Scott/Emma exchange is not as funny as Duggan intended I'm afraid and the change of topic to Ms. Marvel is abrupt and a bit out of place. Still, I felt it was a pretty good issue overall.

I'm having a hard time with how to read their conversation. I think its more friendly/joking flirting than serious flirting on Emma's part and I'm not sure about Scott. But its just so tonally jarring. How do you go from being flirty to telling him his friend is dead? I can get Scott flirting because he doesn't know why he was asked there (but its still weird from a writing stand point) but jeez Emma's lines are harder to reconcile.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Part of the poly/open marriage thing where Scemma is concerned is it was the least apparent part of it, to the point where IMO it's easily argued it wasn't her. The Sinister Secret only mentions Jean and Scott and says that there is an open relationship. Logan is at the family dinner with everyone else (Emma isn't), Logan has a room next to Jean, Emma doesn't have a room even though there's an empty one in the same area as Vulcan and Havok. There's a scene where Logan and Jean have sex but there's nothing even remotely close between Scott and Emma.

The poly/open marriage thing was an attempt to be functional but it failed IMO, not because of it being poly or open but because it was generally so vague. Even the above mentioned stuff is vague to that point. Is Logan just a friend whose over a lot and gets his own room or is he part of the relationship? Is Jean cheating on Scott with Logan or is it poly/open? They don't confirm one way or another. People are going ship their ships, things need to be confirmed or its just pointless.

I absolutely think Emma was not part of it. As for the other three, it was really only Ben Percy who depicted Jean exploring something with Wolverine. There really never seemed to be anything other than the usual outside of Percy's X-Force. At this point, it pretty much didn't happen.

[Devaishwarya]

Yes this has been a huge issue for me. It's like Orichis dead a$$ attacking cluelss children at this point not some mutant gods or whatever. At this point i can't even really take some of it too seriously. They have made the x-men overall so inept in the attempt to give all the ideas and growth to orichis that it just looks like a group of bullies attacking baby hippies to me.

Exactatiously. What the actual **** were they doing for the supposed "three years" that they knew Orchis was a threat (from day one?) Sure, they launched multiple assaults on the Orchis stations but what did they come up with after when they realised that that direct tactic didn't work? Did they just hit up the Green Lagoon and drink to the multiple Wolverines that were killed?

Where is the urgency?

And what's particularly irksome is the one book that's supposed to be the CIA/Defence Force of Krakoa is not in any of this. WTAF is X-Force at this point other than something to keep Percy occupied and out of the way?

While I hate to make the comparison...Claremont would have the threat be overwhelming and difficult and impossible but he would also have his handful of X-Men (not the whole compliment of two Islands full of mutants) planning and being on hard defense knowing fully what they're up against.

[RAWRlrus]

I absolutely think Emma was not part of it. As for the other three, it was really only Ben Percy who depicted Jean exploring something with Wolverine. There really never seemed to be anything other than the usual outside of Percy's X-Force. At this point, it pretty much didn't happen.

Yeah, it feels like Duggan is the only one pushing Scemma. It makes the vagueness even worse since it feels like the writers/X-Office aren't even sure.

[mugen]

Exactatiously. What the actual **** were they doing for the supposed "three years" that they knew Orchis was a threat (from day one?) Sure, they launched multiple assaults on the Orchis stations but what did they come up with after when they realised that that direct tactic didn't work? Did they just hit up the Green Lagoon and drink to the multiple Wolverines that were killed?

Where is the urgency?

And what's particularly irksome is the one book that's supposed to be the CIA/Defence Force of Krakoa is not in any of this. WTAF is X-Force at this point other than something to keep Percy occupied and out of the way?

While I hate to make the comparison...Claremont would have the threat be overwhelming and difficult and impossible but he would also have his handful of X-Men (not the whole compliment of two Islands full of mutants) planning and being on hard defense knowing fully what they're up against.

completely agree it's been three years that the mutants do absolutely nothing against orchis, they all know about moira and the phalanxes they know what will happen in the future but do nothing at all except by drinking at the lagoon bar and wait for this to be attacked by orchis because the x-office has decided...
they even voted not to kill orchis in x-men 9 which makes no sense especially after moira's betrayal.

orchis attack them and make propaganda against them but nothing no reaction enough to read this issue, immortal or before first strike the mutants are written in a stupid way just to bring to fall of x, I can't even find it credible and it will surely be worse for the helfire gala.

The main story with orchis no longer made sense with the character assassination of moira and all his betrayal of mutants out of nowhere I don't expect much from fox except that it ends quickly.

In the end the only one who tries to stop orchis is tony stark lol mutants just drink cocktails at the beach.