The Ultimate Comics Line returns!

[Ultimate Captain America]

I have a theory about Ultimate Black Panther it's going to involve some MCU SYNERGY

How so? Making him look like the actor?

[Factor]

How so? Making him look like the actor?

Maybe Shuri as BP?

[Digifiend]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I saw Dariel's comment.

[Alex_Of_X]

It makes sense for the Maker to mess the hardest with those who would oppose him as the Illuminati. Guessing Black Bolt\Xavier\T'Challa\Strange are toast

[Ultimate Captain America]

It makes sense for the Maker to mess the hardest with those who would oppose him as the Illuminati. Guessing Black Bolt\Xavier\T'Challa\Strange are toast

No need to give them a sporting chance. He can deal with them easily.

* "The Excelsior ship has been stolen by communists! Take it down before they escape with to the Soviet Union! Fire"
* "Oh, poor Stephen Strange, he crashed his car. Guess nobody will notice if I break his neck!"
* "Good work Mr. Klaw, you killed T'Chaka and got yourself a lot of Vibranium... but you missed that kid over there!"

And so on

[dkrook]

I'm just going to keep it real the more i hear the less interested. The main interest i have is if this is a place people who love a certain type can go and enjoy and the main mu can expand then ok i'm good it's worth it. But looking at the designs as i've said before there is just nothing visually inclusive here and the story itself from what i've read here doesn't seem genuine. You are trying to start a new universe it's not the same 616 or 1610 but all solicits show the same three white dudes that were the premiere for ultimate universe in the first place. No thanks.

Bro, been getting those vibes also. I that at some point they're going to drop the noble mute savage Black Panther, lol. Miles is the biggest, and best thing to come out of that universe. He happens to be the hottest thing in the culture right now. They knew a while ago about his new movie, and yet they are doing nothing to play off that energy.

[dkrook]

Maybe Shuri as BP?

Naw, I think Marvel knows she's a wet noodle to market in the role, unless Black Panther isn't important to this new universe and writers don't really care about the character.

[Galerion]

I'm just going to keep it real the more i hear the less interested. The main interest i have is if this is a place people who love a certain type can go and enjoy and the main mu can expand then ok i'm good it's worth it. But looking at the designs as i've said before there is just nothing visually inclusive here and the story itself from what i've read here doesn't seem genuine. You are trying to start a new universe it's not the same 616 or 1610 but all solicits show the same three white dudes that were the premiere for ultimate universe in the first place. No thanks.

You know I kinda agree with you. I have 0 nostalgia for the universe and the character choices so far are some of the most uninspired ever. Maybe the actual content will be different from that but until I know it is, I won't be spending any money on this.

[Dariel81]

Maybe Shuri as BP?

Yes thats my Theory BP of that Universe will be Shuri my out of the ballpark theory
Toussaint (TCHALLA JR_.

[Reviresco]

I John Byrned the issue at my shop and will actually read it when it comes to Unlimited. I'm sure the Reed and Maker stuff will be good, but I flatly refuse to pay $9 for a book padded with TWELVE+ pages on a bunch of red shirt, non-super, bank robbers in a by the numbers bank heist, while the Illuminati get to do / say practically nothing.

It's also clear that Hickman isn't even reading the books, cause he's got BP still ruling and in the Necropolis, Atlantis destroyed, Namor free, etc.

The excellent word balloon podcast just guested Bryan Hitch, who dropped some fun juicy details about Ultimate Invasion! Like below, go watch it, it's great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w67uJus9auA

I'll summarize what I recall:

-The project was originally 5 issues, not 4, and slated to come out right after Hitch finished on Venom. Thing is, he had planned to do Venom for 5 issues, but enjoyed the experience enough that he wanted to continue and eventually did...15 issues, I believe.

-The original writer for UI was not Hickman. The previous writer dropped out, and Hickman came in.

-They, Hitch and Hickman, had planned to work for a long time. They were slated to do the Legion of Superheroes at DC (!!!), but that fell thru and Bendis did it later. Then they planned to do X-Men(!!!), but that was when Hickman was already leaving the X-office, so that was also gone. Finally, the got to do UI, and Hitch is enjoying the work

-He'll do covers for one of the relaunched Ultimate series.

-Issue 2 will have a scene calling back to the og Ultimates scene, and Hitch feels the new scene is better.

Okay, speculation time:

1. I think UI was originally a Cates\Hitch project. Cates did a lot with the Maker in his Venom run. And he famously suddenly left the line and his books last year. It lines up

2. Hickman\Hitch Legion sounds dope

3. Hitch will do covers for the relaunched "Ultimates". It only makes sense

4. The timing of the Hickman\Hitch X-project lines up to what we're getting now in Fall of X. I think it's safe to say it would've been the big "Orchis vs Krakoa" story, the same way as Inferno was the big "Moira vs Destiny" story

Thanks for the info. Your speculations sound pretty much on target to me.

5. The 5 issues vs 4 issues thing is a not-factor, since issues 1 and 4 are huge oversized monsters.

Oh great. Another $9 issue. Can't wait for some completely random, unimportant red shirts to monopolize another ten+ pages.

[Reviresco]

That particular story was intentional though. The story of the Illuminati is a take down of the old boys club style of business. And throughout that story he had BP as of the main leads (the entire arc both starts and ends with him in Wakanda). They very quickly bring in Black Swan who upends their whole system eventually. Yes Hickman does have his favorites that he focuses on but itÂ’s not fair to say itÂ’s at the exclusion of other people or groups itÂ’s dependent on the story being told.

This! Exactly.

Yet here the old boys club is back again and this time there's no critique implied. They're the heroes of the story, the collection of the most relevant 616 characters, and yet none of them is a woman.
If Hickman was using them to signify the old 616 ways I would agree, but every tease we have gotten about the new UU shows very similar circunstances in the new universe. We may get a black Spider-man again, but that's about the only diversity that can be seen from what's been teased.
We did get tons of Avengers issues by the same writer, but the story ended up being about Tony and Cap and few other characters got any actual depth.
His F4 did give the other characters some cool moments, but Reed was always the main character. Nobody else was so important that they got a multiversal council of alternate versions.
His X-men was about Cyclops, Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse. He did temporarily elevate Moira only to character assassinate her in Inferno. I guess he likes Emma too, but there's a big pattern in his work of making the male hero the center of the primary narrative.



I do agree that it's more difficult to find female characters in big enough positions to justify their inclusion in the team but I think they could have used the Illuminati as an opportunity to elevate the status of different characters.
Emma Frost as you said would fit right in. Medusa did for a short while. Thena could have represented the Eternals. Or there could have been representatives from pantheons of gods. And there are others that I think could also fit if some thought was put into it. Like Storm, Carol Danvers, Abigail Brand, Maria Hill, Moondragon, Karma etc.

It's not about being 'powerful' or in a certain position. Most of those female characters do not fit in, because they aren't idiots who think they know better than everyone else in the world and will make SECRET decisions without any other input. The Illuminati, by definition, imply a critique of the Old Boys / Powerful Men Ruling in Secret. Putting women on the 'team' undercuts the premise, and does zero favor for women. Let the boys have all the delusional, destructive, dumb a$$ labels and actions.

It's only been one issue, and already the Illuminati have f##ked up, AGAIN. The whole reason we'll have a new Maker Ultimate universe, will be cause these guys will f##k up even more, AGAIN.

To be fair, Hickman did have the one POC have a major throughline from start to finish, even including Secret Wars. T'Challa actually had the most character development, compared to the rest of the Illuminati who remained mostly static aside from their slide into failure. He was the most interesting character to read about each issue.

CUT

I do think Ultimate Invasion could be the best litmus test, as he has a blank canvas to use.

I don't think Hickman will have much to do with creating the Ultimate Universe books. He's just setting up the universe, isn't he?

Actually, he had two, with Namor. By character development, do you mean page count? Cause I can't say I saw much character development for any of the Illuminati, as far as change. I mean, the whole point was watching what they all did under an impossible choice - which most of them have undergone before. And have to disagree with you on which character was the most interesting to read, though of course, that's personal tastes.

[Anthony W]

I John Byrned the issue at my shop and will actually read it when it comes to Unlimited. I'm sure the Reed and Maker stuff will be good, but I flatly refuse to pay $9 for a book padded with TWELVE+ pages on a bunch of red shirt, non-super, bank robbers in a by the numbers bank heist, while the Illuminati get to do / say practically nothing.

Sorry to hear that. How was the data pages?

[Reviresco]

Sorry to hear that. How was the data pages?

I think there was like one data page, and it was pretty unnecessary. A map of the 5 or 6 "secure" cells around the Maker's, IIRC. I'd have much rather have had data pages, if they had new data on them, rather than the bank robber pages.

I'd forgotten. There were like six pages of Hitch's pencils, also. I didn't mind those either, as I like seeing art process, but that should have been saved for a trade collection, instead of padding a floppy comics to charge $9.

[Anthony W]

I think there was like one data page, and it was pretty unnecessary. A map of the 5 or 6 "secure" cells around the Maker's, IIRC. I'd have much rather have had data pages, if they had new data on them, rather than the bank robber pages.

The data pages were a useless indulgence? Shocking!

[SpiderTBliss]

I John Byrned the issue at my shop and will actually read it when it comes to Unlimited. I'm sure the Reed and Maker stuff will be good, but I flatly refuse to pay $9 for a book padded with TWELVE+ pages on a bunch of red shirt, non-super, bank robbers in a by the numbers bank heist, while the Illuminati get to do / say practically nothing.

Yet rather than say "$9 no thank you" you'll still happily read it in the shop and screw them over?