Do you think Mon-El is a wasted character?

[GreyFox]

Mon-el (aka Valor) was at his most prominent during the period when the Legion was freed from Superboy.

[Ascended]

Should he go back to being Valor?

I think so. Never liked 'Mon-El' as a heroic codename. Always liked Valor more; it's got a timeless ring to it, and it tells you something about the character and his intentions. Mon-El just doesn't pop the same way, and it doesn't mean anything either, unless you know Superman's kryptonian name and make the extrapolation.

But the #1 issue you posted was my first exposure to the character too, so maybe I have a bias.

I'd rather 'Valor' be the hero moniker and 'Mon-El' be a family name. Clark has three names, why not Lar/Mon/Valor?

As for the OP, yes I'd say he's wasted as a character. He mixes Superman with Steve Roger's 'Man out of time' thing, set in a Star Trek-like future. And he spent a thousand years in a phantom hell. Plus Daxam, which is an interesting place. That's a big meal, lot of flavors in there. And DC doesn't do anything with it, which is a shame. But I also feel that, as cool as Lar's story is and as good as it could be in the right hands, it's not a story that *needs* to be told, either. As interesting as he is/could be, I feel like Lar's primary function is to service Clark and the Legion's stories, more than headline his own. If that makes any sense? Someone like Black Lightning not having a book, or Starman or Cyborg, that I see as a high crime. Valor, not so much. Just a missed opportunity.

That said I'd absolutely be willing to give Mon-El/Valor a shot at a solo. Even if his story doesn't 'need' to be told doesn't mean it wouldn't be a fun ride.

[Harrynorine]

I think so. Never liked 'Mon-El' as a heroic codename. Always liked Valor more; it's got a timeless ring to it, and it tells you something about the character and his intentions. Mon-El just doesn't pop the same way, and it doesn't mean anything either, unless you know Superman's kryptonian name and make the extrapolation.

But the #1 issue you posted was my first exposure to the character too, so maybe I have a bias.

I'd rather 'Valor' be the hero moniker and 'Mon-El' be a family name. Clark has three names, why not Lar/Mon/Valor?

As for the OP, yes I'd say he's wasted as a character. He mixes Superman with Steve Roger's 'Man out of time' thing, set in a Star Trek-like future. And he spent a thousand years in a phantom hell. Plus Daxam, which is an interesting place. That's a big meal, lot of flavors in there. And DC doesn't do anything with it, which is a shame. But I also feel that, as cool as Lar's story is and as good as it could be in the right hands, it's not a story that *needs* to be told, either. As interesting as he is/could be, I feel like Lar's primary function is to service Clark and the Legion's stories, more than headline his own. If that makes any sense? Someone like Black Lightning not having a book, or Starman or Cyborg, that I see as a high crime. Valor, not so much. Just a missed opportunity.

That said I'd absolutely be willing to give Mon-El/Valor a shot at a solo. Even if his story doesn't 'need' to be told doesn't mean it wouldn't be a fun ride.

If you like Mon-El, I urge you to read Superman Annual #14. It shows the history of daxam and how Mon-El's family tree came to be, it also gives a brief summary of his first meeting of Superboy.

[Captain Nostalgia]

I wish mon-el ended up being an the British version of Superman. Similar to how Knight and squire are the british version of batman and robin. And DC could expand the justice league pass american version and make international version from another nation.

I see, kind of like a Captain Britain?

I don't think that would work for Mon-El or the Legion in general. Would there even be a UK in the 31st century?

I like his origin just the way it is, from Daxam. I don't want him interacting with the rest of the DCU, he's a legionairre to the core.

[mathew101281]

Mon-el has the same problem that a lot of characters that have the same basic powers as Superman has. What makes him different enough to stand out? This is the problem with the whole superhero family concept.

[Zero Hunter]

I loved what they did his origin in the Reboot era. His father dying during the Invasion event inspiring him to leave Daxam to understand why his father sacrificed himself for another race. Him then briefly joining L.E.G.I.O.N. before taking on the title Valor. Then after a brief time as Valor he rescues all the humans the Dominator abducted during the Invasion event. The Dominators experiments trying to use the meta gene leaving the captives changed knowing they will not fit in back on Earth. Lar then helps these humans set up colonies on worlds that their meta gene powers would give them an advantage. These worlds latter becoming some of the core worlds of the United Planets a 1000 years latter. Worlds that many future Legion members come from. Then latter Lar succumbs to lead poisoning which forces Superboy ( Conner) to put him the stasis/phantom zone. I also really like the reason he took the Money name was because as Valor he had become a religious figure on some of the colony worlds he helped create.

To me that origin is 1000% more interesting than the classic amnesiac who thinks he is Kal El's brother

[Captain Nostalgia]

I loved what they did his origin in the Reboot era. His father dying during the Invasion event inspiring him to leave Daxam to understand why his father sacrificed himself for another race. Him then briefly joining L.E.G.I.O.N. before taking on the title Valor. Then after a brief time as Valor he rescues all the humans the Dominator abducted during the Invasion event. The Dominators experiments trying to use the meta gene leaving the captives changed knowing they will not fit in back on Earth. Lar then helps these humans set up colonies on worlds that their meta gene powers would give them an advantage. These worlds latter becoming some of the core worlds of the United Planets a 1000 years latter. Worlds that many future Legion members come from. Then latter Lar succumbs to lead poisoning which forces Superboy ( Conner) to put him the stasis/phantom zone. I also really like the reason he took the Money name was because as Valor he had become a religious figure on some of the colony worlds he helped create.

To me that origin is 1000% more interesting than the classic amnesiac who thinks he is Kal El's brother

Agreed. It's much better than the original origin.

On another note, I couldn't figure out why a post had been specifically made about Mon El amongst all the other Legionairres to choose from.

I didn't realize he had been on the Supergirl t show....so ah! That explains this thread.

[Harrynorine]

I see, kind of like a Captain Britain?

I don't think that would work for Mon-El or the Legion in general. Would there even be a UK in the 31st century?

I like his origin just the way it is, from Daxam. I don't want him interacting with the rest of the DCU, he's a legionairre to the core.

A series dedicated to Mon-El living in the 21st century as a british version of Superman and working alongside other british/European superheroes who would have their own Justice League.

[kcekada]

I like Mon-El. He has an interesting origin that sets him apart from being just another Superboy/Superman.

[Ascended]

Agreed. It's much better than the original origin.

When he puts it like that, yeah it sounds pretty badass. I'd read it.

Not gonna lie, Lar as the British Superman is a fun idea too.

So, in post-Crisis the Legion and everyone tied to it, including Mon-El, were cut off from Clark. Now that that's not the case and the franchises are allowed to mix again, how does that affect him?

[Jim Kelly]

Isn't it really that the Legion itself has been wasted?

Other than Superboy and Supergirl (and maybe even them), no one Legionnaire can be more important than the group. Any of them might be killed off or retired from duty. That's the element that made the classic team so compelling--you never knew what could happen to any of them.

So long as Mon-El is a Legionnaire, he has to function for the good of the group, which sometimes means being left off the roll call. Characters that attract too much attention and get their own comics--like Karate Kid--tend to end up dead. Superboy and Supergirl included.

The Legion isn't about power sets. That's just a conceit of the concept. It's really about characters. As a character, Lar Gand has a lot to offer and there have been glimpses of this in the past.

I think the most significant thing about him is the one thousand years he spent in the Phantom Zone before he could be released. Some stories even suggested that he had to go back in the Phantom Zone periodically. He's a tragic figure.

In the past, I never cared for Shadow Lass--I thought she wasn't good enough to be Mon-El's girl friend; however, I modified that opinion over the years. Her power of darkness compliments the darkness that haunts Lar Gand. I think they should both have gone the way that the Adult Legion story predicted: Shadow Lass doomed to die and Mon-El doomed to wander the cosmos alone.

The comics that had Mon-El being a super-hero in the present day undermine that whole senses of the character. If he's not put in the Phantom Zone for a thousand years then that character arc never happened.

The fact that Clark caused his friend to suffer such a doom also adds to the Superman character. It tells us that Supes isn't perfect. He has made huge mistakes in the past. His guilt over what happened to Lar Gand motivates him to act with greater caution in the future. That's why the name "Mon-El" matters--it's a constant reminder that they were brothers once.

I don't know why people want every super-hero to exist in the now--that overpopulates the present. Better to have them spread out over many decades and centuries, so they each have their own milieu for their adventures. Val-Lor is the name of a Kryptonian hero and martyr--in death he inspired a revolution. If Lar Gand wants to appropriate that name, then he better be prepared to meet the same fate and end up another dead Legionnaire.

[Ascended]

Isn't it really that the Legion itself has been wasted?

Touche.

The Legion's (real world) history is pretty interesting. Not many titles can claim they've gone from the top of the sales charts to the bottom, and still managed to stick around for decades afterwards.

For me, I've never been the biggest Legion fan. I love the concept, I think it's essential to young Clark, but the Legion itself has never quite worked for me. Too often it just feels like Teen Titans in space, and not the big, bright exploration of the future it's meant to be. I feel like a Legion that leaned more into the sci-fi elements and less into the spandex ones would be more to my personal liking, but DC has yet to try such an approach.

The Legion isn't about power sets. That's just a conceit of the concept. It's really about characters.

True of every hero is it not?

The fact that Clark caused his friend to suffer such a doom also adds to the Superman character.

I think Lar was the first instance of Clark being bad with 'family' too, setting a precedent that survived reboots and new writers and the ebb and flow of time and cultural norms. It's a remarkably important moment for Superman that most people never seem to really consider.

I don't know why people want every super-hero to exist in the now--that overpopulates the present.

Eh, people want heroes to be able to team up. They want the Legion and Jonah Hex to hang out with Batman and Aquaman, and a lot of folks seem to believe that jumping in a time sphere for a time travel adventure isn't an option (for whatever reason).

But I agree with you; I like being able to read about a hero across their entire career, and heroes across generations and centuries. It's one of the things I love about Flash, you can trace that heroic mantle from the Golden Age to DC 1 Million. I'm really enjoying the current Waid World's Finest stuff because it's giving us that option; we can read about Clark and Bruce when they're a little younger and in their 'classic' status quo, then I can grab Action and Detective to read about them 'today.'

[Zero Hunter]

The comics that had Mon-El being a super-hero in the present day undermine that whole senses of the character. If he's not put in the Phantom Zone for a thousand years then that character arc never happened.

He still ended up spending a 1000 years in the Phantom/Stasis Zone in that version. He just had a brief career as a modern day hero before going to the Zone. That an it was Superboy (Conner) who sent him to the Zone instead of Kal-El. So he did still have the trauma from that and only being able to catch glimpses of the real world now and then.

[Sutekh]

He still ended up spending a 1000 years in the Phantom/Stasis Zone in that version. He just had a brief career as a modern day hero before going to the Zone. That an it was Superboy (Conner) who sent him to the Zone instead of Kal-El. So he did still have the trauma from that and only being able to catch glimpses of the real world now and then.

And yet his memories of that time are spotty, at best, buried by centuries of trauma, and it's entirely possible that he's been 'out' a few more times over the thousand years between going in and coming out to join the Legion, but just doesn't remember these brief glimpses of the 'real world,' (or perhaps these brief glimpses made having to go back and spend yet more centuries in the zone even harder!) and that's just assuming that his own mind is the culprit. Someone like Saturn Girl could have gently edited bits of memory that proved too traumatic to have to live with.

There's potential for him to have been active out of the zone for 'brief' periods (brief being *years* even), and those experiences having had little real impact on his *centuries* of exile, if a writer wanted to insert a few intermediate stories between the beginning and end of his exile to the Zone (as they did with his brief time replacing Superman in the early 21st century).

The overall trajectory and tragedy of his thousand-year exile isn't really changed if he got to spend <1% of that time on brief excursions out of the Zone. So he's a *usable* character (as he has already been used!), just one that's kind of surplus to the requirements, since there are already about 393217 characters with Superman powers available who don't have to be so carefully 'put back in the box' when the writer is through using them.

[Zero Hunter]

And yet his memories of that time are spotty, at best, buried by centuries of trauma, and it's entirely possible that he's been 'out' a few more times over the thousand years between going in and coming out to join the Legion, but just doesn't remember these brief glimpses of the 'real world,' (or perhaps these brief glimpses made having to go back and spend yet more centuries in the zone even harder!) and that's just assuming that his own mind is the culprit. Someone like Saturn Girl could have gently edited bits of memory that proved too traumatic to have to live with.

There's potential for him to have been active out of the zone for 'brief' periods (brief being *years* even), and those experiences having had little real impact on his *centuries* of exile, if a writer wanted to insert a few intermediate stories between the beginning and end of his exile to the Zone (as they did with his brief time replacing Superman in the early 21st century).

The overall trajectory and tragedy of his thousand-year exile isn't really changed if he got to spend <1% of that time on brief excursions out of the Zone. So he's a *usable* character (as he has already been used!), just one that's kind of surplus to the requirements, since there are already about 393217 characters with Superman powers available who don't have to be so carefully 'put back in the box' when the writer is through using them.

The problem is he was near death when Supeboy put him in the Zone because of the lead poisoning, and Brainiac 5 had to give him the serum almost immediately after he was pulled out in their time or he would have died. In every version he was dying so its kind of hard to just keep pulling him out here and there