Man Of Steel Ten Years Later - What’s Your Thoughts On It?

[Jeffrey2]

David Goyer who wrote MOS recently stated it was "crazy" to do BvS and not an MOS2. Prior to the MOS release rumor was an MOS2 script was in development. Would it have featured Brainiac? The combination of WB wanting to copy MCU's lucrative model and MOS underperforming at the BO led to the change of direction. In a GQ article timed with MOS's release he mentioned he was optioned for 3 more films and would, "fingers crossed", get a Superman trilogy out of the deal. Instead, he had about 40 lines in BvS which not much more than Gadot and was absent from the screen for 60% of Justice League. Cavill got screwed. WB's revised plans did not work out with BvS significantly underperforming. At that point word is WB considered removing Snyder from JL but with JL set to film a few months after BvS came out they kept Snyder on board. Tragedy struck Snyder's family, and, in the end, he was replaced by Whedon with JL going on to be an outright bomb.

Goyer - WB should have made MOS2 and was crazy to try to copy the MCU w/BvS and JL

[Jeffrey2]

The DCEU is officially over with the release of Aquaman 2 - ten and a half years after its launch. The graphic captures the top DCEU films by BO. Amazing that 2nd tier character Aquaman is the top grossing DC film ever - making a second-tier character top tier. This is Gunn's objective with his DCU. The obvious mistake was not turning around the Aquaman sequel immediately - in 2 years. They waited 5 years by which time the magic is gone as well as memories of the original story. Plus, things happen as occurred with WB and the DCEU. Note Batman starred in 3 of the top films, was the co-star in one and his top villain starred in another. This is of course why WB/DC mostly do Batman. The franchise has been and is by far WB/DC's biggest money maker. Gunn is making the DCU mostly about his beloved second-tier characters, but Batman will surely have a big presence in the DCU because he brings in the profits Gunn's DCU will need to launch the next generation's diamonds.

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[Primal Slayer]

The DCEU is officially over with the release of Aquaman 2. The graphic captures the top DCEU films by BO. Amazing that 2nd tier character Aquaman is the top grossing DC film ever - making a second-tier character top tier which is Gunn's objective with his DCU. Obvious mistake was not turning around the Aquaman sequel immediately - in 2 years. They waited 5 years by which time the magic is gone as well as memories of the original story. Finally, Batman starred in 3 of the top films, was the co-star in one and his top villain stared in another. This is of course why WB/DC mostly do Batman The franchise has been and is by far WB/DC's biggest money maker. Gunn is making the DCU mostly about the second-tier characters but Batman will surely have a big presence in the DCU because he brings in the profits Gunn's DCU will need to launch the next generation's diamonds.

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Yeah but Batman is only their top money maker because they almost exclusively focus on him.

Aquaman and WWs first outtings were mega successes when you know WB expected both to flop. But it does make clear that they have a Superman problem and need to be on top of their game with the character

[Jeffrey2]

Yeah but Batman is only their top money maker because they almost exclusively focus on him.

Aquaman and WWs first outtings were mega successes when you know WB expected both to flop. But it does make clear that they have a Superman problem and need to be on top of their game with the character

Aquaman and Wonder Woman showed Batman's success can be replicated by other franchises. But were those one-offs? The sequels did poorly though arguments are made, with some validity, that the follow-up films weren't true sequels. I think Wonder Woman - more so than Aquaman - can be a top DC film franchise. Not quite Batman level as Batman has a "family" of friends and foes unmatched across the comic book world. Brave and Bold will spawn, besides more Batman films, a slew of Bat-family films/series like Nightwing and Joker.

As to Superman - yes, they have a problem going back to SR but really the 90s. For this reason, I'm not happy with Gunn including lots of heroes in SL. This can't but help to take a significant amount of focus off of Superman at a time when WB should be laser focusing on Supeman if they really want to revitalize the franchise.

[Jeffrey2]

Podcast about the DCEU's profitability. Per analysis it maybe broke even during its 10 year run. MOS lost money in theatres but made a small profit when factoring in hard media sales and such. Same for BvS. This is why Cavill and Affleck were maybe kicked to the ground by Hamada? Wonder Woman made a huge amount of money for the studio which begs the question why WBD has not yet announced a WW film.

The Snyder boys will reject this but the analysis includes numbers from Deadline so who are you going to believe?

Did the DCEU make money?

[Vordan]

For a guy who claims not to like the DCEU, you are obsessed with talking about it. Who cares Jeffery? It’s over, Cavill is done. Stop digging up every little podcast to justify bumping this thread.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Podcast about the DCEU's profitability. Per analysis it maybe broke even during its 10 year run. MOS lost money in theatres but made a small profit when factoring in hard media sales and such. Same for BvS. This is why Cavill and Affleck were maybe kicked to the ground by Hamada? Wonder Woman made a huge amount of money for the studio which begs the question why WBD has not yet announced a WW film.

The Snyder boys will reject this but the analysis includes numbers from Deadline so who are you going to believe?

Did the DCEU make money?

MoS already made its money back before being released: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bu...l-nabs-562225/

If it was a bomb WB wouldn't have started the DCEU at all.

“Rick's movie wasn't the Flashpoint movie,” Oliva says, before detouring into a brief DCEU history lesson. “Originally, there was supposed to be just Zack's five films and one side movie, which ended up being Suicide Squad.” But after the success of Man of Steel, Warner decided to go all in on its cinematic universe. “Rick's movie was going to be a series of films, just like Aquaman. I think all of those films, they were planning to be trilogies.”
https://www.inverse.com/entertainmen...plan-jay-oliva

[Jeffrey2]

MoS already made its money back before being released: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bu...l-nabs-562225/

If it was a bomb WB wouldn't have started the DCEU at all.

MOS was not a bomb. It underperformed making, per Deadline, about 32 million at the end of the day. WW made over 200 million. John Campea's review is spot on as to the DCEU and what went wrong. I didn't know that Whedon needed more time to do JL and wanted it delayed but the WB CEO insisted it come out in 2017 as he got a bonus for that which he would not get if it came out a year later. John confirms rumors that after BvS the studio came close to firing Snyder, but production was set to start in a month and the went ahead which turned out to be a mistake. They talk about BvS being overstuffed and rushing to set up the JL. Sounds like Gunn's SL which is overstuffed and rushing to set up second tier characters projects.

John Campea and Robert Meyer Burnett - thoughts on the DCEU

[Last Son of Krypton]

MOS was not a bomb. It underperformed making, per Deadline, about 32 million at the end of the day. WW made over 200 million. John Campea's review is spot on as to the DCEU and what went wrong. I didn't know that Whedon needed more time to do JL and wanted it delayed but the WB CEO insisted it come out in 2017 as he got a bonus for that which he would not get if it came out a year later. John confirms rumors that after BvS the studio came close to firing Snyder, but production was set to start in a month and the went ahead which turned out to be a mistake. They talk about BvS being overstuffed and rushing to set up the JL. Sounds like Gunn's SL which is overstuffed and rushing to set up second tier characters projects.

John Campea and Robert Meyer Burnett - thoughts on the DCEU

Deadline wrote that MoS' net profit was 42,7 millions. But they estimated the profit on the wrong budget (258m vs the actual 225m), this means the net profit was 75,7m. More if you take in account they cut 200m of costs due to the partnerships. It was also a top selling DVD (120m). BvS was less profitable in comparison.

[Jeffrey2]

Deadline wrote that MoS' net profit was 42,7 millions. But they estimated the profit on the wrong budget (258m vs the actual 225m), this means the net profit was 75,7m. More if you take in account they cut 200m of costs due to the partnerships. It was also a top selling DVD (120m). BvS was less profitable in comparison.

It's funny that 200 million supposedly in product placement in the film. It seems never to get mentioned in analysis of MOS profitability. That's a big miss so I don't know to what extent it is true. At least the amount mentioned. Did other DCEU films also use product placement? I don't recall but if MOS did, I'd assume some of the others did.

Bottom line, as Campea says WB expected a billion from MOS and much more than a billion from BvS. The latter not happening being why Snyder came close to getting fired after BvS came out. Curious what Zaslav/WBD expects from Superman Legacy for them to be happy and continue the franchise? Mu guess - definitely not a billion but likely The Batman numbers - 750 million or so. That in the context of a 150 million production budget and 100 million in marketing making 500 plus million the break-even point.

[Last Son of Krypton]

It's funny that 200 million supposedly in product placement in the film. It seems never to get mentioned in analysis of MOS profitability. That's a big miss so I don't know to what extent it is true. At least the amount mentioned. Did other DCEU films also use product placement? I don't recall but if MOS did, I'd assume some of the others did.

Bottom line, as Campea says WB expected a billion from MOS and much more than a billion from BvS. The latter not happening being why Snyder came close to getting fired after BvS came out. Curious what Zaslav/WBD expects from Superman Legacy for them to be happy and continue the franchise? Mu guess - definitely not a billion but likely The Batman numbers - 750 million or so. That in the context of a 150 million production budget and 100 million in marketing making 500 plus million the break-even point.

The product placement is very noticeable in MoS in the Smalville scenes. None of the other DCEU films were so heavy in product placement from what I recall.

I don't think WB expected a billion from MoS or Snyder would've been kicked out after MoS. WB president was predicting MoS was going to be a huge hit for WB to hype the film: https://variety.com/2013/film/news/w...an-1200493334/ As pointed out in the article if MoS was going to be successful it'll start a full shared universe:

If “Man of Steel,” starring Henry Cavill, becomes a blockbuster, it would move the Burbank studio one giant leap closer to preparing the ground for its longplanned all-star superhero pic “Justice League,” which could match the box office prowess of “Marvel’s The Avengers.” That 2012 Disney release, featuring Iron Man, Captain America, the Hulk and Thor, amassed $1.5 billion worldwide.

Warner could finally fully exploit its DC Comics library beyond Batman and Superman, and bring to the screen such characters as Aquaman, the Flash, Wonder Woman and another Green Lantern — whose costly 2011 predecessor flopped.

Expectations are that Warner will release a “Justice League” film within the next four years, with the timing dependent on whether a second “Man of Steel” would go first.

Robinov acknowledges the pic will establish the tone and feel for the upcoming DC movies. “The plan is for a universe that will allow for other DC characters,” he explains. “Chris Nolan’s Batman trilogy was set very much in an isolated universe and done as a stand-alone without other superheroes.”

If WB went ahead with the DCEU was because MoS.

[Yohei72]

I finally saw this a month or two ago out of curiosity and completism. I’ve never had anyone defecate on my face, but the Krypton-set prologue might be the closest I’ve ever come to what I would imagine that feels like. It gets better after that, but not by much. It’s almost completely joyless and humorless, visually ugly, migraine-level noisy, jerkily paced, with flat characterizations and performances. It’s as fascinated by random property destruction as a psychologically troubled eight year old. Snyder’s films in general seem to me like parodies of everything negative about current blockbuster filmmaking, but this was a low even for him. I care little about being “faithful” to source material and I don’t mind a dark take on Superman. I mind bad filmmaking and storytelling. Worst superhero movie I’ve ever seen.

[Jeffrey2]

The product placement is very noticeable in MoS in the Smalville scenes. None of the other DCEU films were so heavy in product placement from what I recall.

I don't think WB expected a billion from MoS or Snyder would've been kicked out after MoS. WB president was predicting MoS was going to be a huge hit for WB to hype the film: https://variety.com/2013/film/news/w...an-1200493334/ As pointed out in the article if MoS was going to be successful it'll start a full shared universe:



If WB went ahead with the DCEU was because MoS.

Jeff Robinov who had predicted the billion-dollar box left WB weeks after the premier of MOS. The reason is not clear but by the second weekend MOS was noticeably underperforming and it was clear MOS would fall far short of a billion.

However, on its second weekend, Man of Steel's box office fell almost 65%–68% if the Thursday night gross is included—putting it in third place, behind Monsters University and World War Z. Box Office Mojo called it an "abnormally large drop," close to the second-weekend decline for Green Lantern.


Reviews were mixed and Cavill was seen as stiff and lacking charisma. Cavill got the same middling reviews in BvS while Affleck and especially Gadot got great reviews though the critics generally didn't like the film. Some say that Cavill is the Superman of our generation but that does not appear to be so among the GA. It was IMO a PR thing by the Cavill camp that The Rock picked up on at the time of Black Adam.

I recall a piece saying Affleck was brought in as WB had doubts that Superman/Cavill could carry a film. The Affleck thing was announced at ComiCon about a month after MOS came out. Then, months after that word that WW would be in the film. And later on, the rest of the JL in cameos. That was the studio interfering to do an Avengers like event and make boatloads of money as Campea mentions. Gee, this sounds familiar doesn't it. I believe WB was put off of Cavill by MOS and their belief was confirmed by BvS which put them off of Affleck as well. And then it all collapsed.

[manwhohaseverything]

Jeff Robinov who had predicted the billion-dollar box left WB weeks after the premier of MOS. The reason is not clear but by the second weekend MOS was noticeably underperforming and it was clear MOS would fall far short of a billion.

However, on its second weekend, Man of Steel's box office fell almost 65%–68% if the Thursday night gross is included—putting it in third place, behind Monsters University and World War Z. Box Office Mojo called it an "abnormally large drop," close to the second-weekend decline for Green Lantern.


Reviews were mixed and Cavill was seen as stiff and lacking charisma. Cavill got the same middling reviews in BvS while Affleck and especially Gadot got great reviews though the critics generally didn't like the film. Some say that Cavill is the Superman of our generation but that does not appear to be so among the GA. It was IMO a PR thing by the Cavill camp that The Rock picked up on at the time of Black Adam.

I recall a piece saying Affleck was brought in as WB had doubts that Superman/Cavill could carry a film. The Affleck thing was announced at ComiCon about a month after MOS came out. Then, months after that word that WW would be in the film. And later on, the rest of the JL in cameos. That was the studio interfering to do an Avengers like event and make boatloads of money as Campea mentions. Gee, this sounds familiar doesn't it. I believe WB was put off of Cavill by MOS and their belief was confirmed by BvS which put them off of Affleck as well. And then it all collapsed.

So weren't you talking about box office?now we have gone to negative wom andrevies.if wb were putoff by mos.why would they give another 200mil to the director?last i checked, millions of dollars is a lot of money.It doesn't grow on trees.

[Jeffrey2]

So weren't you talking about box office?now we have gone to negative wom andrevies.if wb were putoff by mos.why would they give another 200mil to the director?last i checked, millions of dollars is a lot of money.It doesn't grow on trees.

It was a combo of poor BO and WOM. The latter being why MOS didn't have legs. Yes, WB continued with Snyder after MOS but forced him (presumably - before MOS he was talking MOS sequel) to pivot to Batman. BvS was essentially a Batman film. After BvS WB came close to firing Snyder and later on, after JL underperformed moved beyond Snyder and radically so given some of the things that were planned. The biggest postmortem on the DCEU is, IMO, the wasted opportunity for Superman content. The plan had been a trilogy of Superman films plus another major Cavill Superman film - whatever that would have been. 10 years gone and now a new regime which doesn't have an aggressive plan to use Superman as had been the case prior to the release of MOS.