Man Of Steel Ten Years Later - What’s Your Thoughts On It?

[Jeffrey2]

I posted something way earlier in this thread and kinda lost track so not sure if this will be a repeat or not but one thing I really did like was the denouement scene. Perry introduces Clark to various DP staff, Lois says with a smile, “welcome to the planet,” to which Clark replies, “glad to be here Lois.” End.

Thought that was a damn fine way to end the thing, other dislikes notwithstanding.

Yes, I agree. Prior to MOS coming out the plan was to do MOS2 in 2015 and the ending may have been a segway to MOS2 picking up with the Daily Planet, new reporter story in MOS2.Unfortunately, due the negative reaction to the fight scene and Superman killing Zod, Snyder had to "fix" things by jumping 2 years ahead in BvS and the Clark/DP story wasn't really fleshed out.

[Last Son of Krypton]

BvS' existence predate MoS' release (it was likely a response to 2012's Avengers' success and not MoS' BO performance).

At least if we have to believe people who worked on the films over online chatters:

Okay school is in session... Back in April 2013 (before MoS released in June) I was tasked with doing the Superman 75 short. I met with Zack who was the exec producer on it and he showed me storyboards of BvS with Batman already in it. AND it was a Batman from DKR.

I know this as fact because I was there and I remember it very clearly because I was sad that I may not get the opportunity to work on a film that used Miller’s DKR as an influence. Because well you know, I kinda did a little film that did just that.

So how could it be revisionist history if the plan for the following films were already planned BEFORE the release the MoS? Now was there a plan to do a sequel when Goyer and Nolan wrote it? I don’t know for sure but you can bet your ass that prior to June there was a plan

https://twitter.com/jayoliva1/status/987930376965210113

[Jeffrey2]

BvS' existence predate MoS' release (it was likely a response to 2012's Avengers' success and not MoS' BO performance).

At least if we have to believe people who worked on the films over online chatters:



https://twitter.com/jayoliva1/status/987930376965210113

Contradictory stuff around MOS for sure. This is an in-depth look at the saga from pre-MOS through 2020. It was a hot mess which has continued up until now and Gunn's SL and if it is a Superman film or an ensemble film featuring Superman. Towards the end Snyder is there (around 34:50) saying Brainiac was planned for MOS2 while yes Oliva (I think that is the quote you posted) says something different. Kinda reminds me of Gunn saying all these characters he's squeezing into SL are not to set up other DCU films while he's said the opposite of that too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG4AZjXbHN0

[Last Son of Krypton]

Of course MoS was during pre-production the beginning of a SM solo trilogy and ideas like Brainiac were considered for a direct sequel, but during filming/post-production, it evolved into a JL prelude: BvS, likely due to the success of The Avengers in 2012 and the Marvel shared universe.

In 2011, when MoS was filming, WB developed a JL script disconnected from Snyder's Superman. Eventually the 2 projects ended up merging into one post 2012.

[Jeffrey2]

Of course MoS was during pre-production the beginning of a SM solo trilogy and ideas like Brainiac were considered for a direct sequel, but during filming/post-production, it evolved into a JL prelude: BvS, likely due to the success of The Avengers in 2012 and the Marvel shared universe.

In 2011, when MoS was filming, WB developed a JL script disconnected from Snyder's Superman. Eventually the 2 projects ended up merging into one post 2012.

MOS was hurried into production because of a court order saying it had to be out by 2013. Cavill had been up already for the role and it was a quick decision isnsofar as they did not have the time to do an extensive search for the Superman actor. That said, they had time with SR and they chose Routh. Nice guy, OK actor but totally overwhelmed by the role.

Cavill is impressive in interviews. Charming and all. I was totally on board. But, despite perhaps the best Superman look ever, he fell flat in the role. Part of it was Snyder and his vision but part of it was that Cavill was wrong for the role. As was Amy Adams and Kate Bosworth before her. The former a great actress the latter an OK actress. In hindsight it is hard to see how Singer and Snyder got the castings so wrong. Including Lex in both SR and BVS. It can't be that hard, but I guess it is. Singer got all the castings wrong, at least Snyder nailed Batman, WW and Aquaman. The 3 most successful DC films in the last 20 years have been Aquaman, The Dark Knight and Wonder Woman which show great DC films can be made. Depending on who is in charge.

[DochaDocha]

When you consider how little The Joker cost, it might be the most successful DC Comics movie ever made.

Of course, since this is WB, they found a way to screw things up and get outside financing for a relatively cheap film and thus don't get to reap all the profits.

Even when they succeed, you can point to something boneheaded.

[Primal Slayer]

MOS was hurried into production because of a court order saying it had to be out by 2013. Cavill had been up already for the role and it was a quick decision isnsofar as they did not have the time to do an extensive search for the Superman actor. That said, they had time with SR and they chose Routh. Nice guy, OK actor but totally overwhelmed by the role.

Cavill is impressive in interviews. Charming and all. I was totally on board. But, despite perhaps the best Superman look ever, he fell flat in the role. Part of it was Snyder and his vision but part of it was that Cavill was wrong for the role. As was Amy Adams and Kate Bosworth before her. The former a great actress the latter an OK actress. In hindsight it is hard to see how Singer and Snyder got the castings so wrong. Including Lex in both SR and BVS. It can't be that hard, but I guess it is. Singer got all the castings wrong, at least Snyder nailed Batman, WW and Aquaman. The 3 most successful DC films in the last 20 years have been Aquaman, The Dark Knight and Wonder Woman which show great DC films can be made. Depending on who is in charge.

To think DC/WB losing rights to characters is what helps some prosper. Shame it isnt like that for most characters

[Jeffrey2]

When you consider how little The Joker cost, it might be the most successful DC Comics movie ever made.

Of course, since this is WB, they found a way to screw things up and get outside financing for a relatively cheap film and thus don't get to reap all the profits.

Even when they succeed, you can point to something boneheaded.

I didn't list Joker as it's not a core character, but yes Joker did better than Aquaman, Wonder Woman and The Batman. Those 3 are DC's most lucrative film franchises and presumably Aquaman and Wonder Woman will get films in the second phase of Gunn's chapter 1.

[Spencermalley935]

There are three plot points in Man of Steel that I just can't get my head around.

1. Why did Jor-El infuse the codex into his Son's DNA?

2. What did Jor-El expect Clark to do with the thumb drive that contained the AI when he gave Clark no means of actually accessing the information on it?

3. Why does Zod need to commit genocide once he has the Codex? Just take it and go to another uninhabited planet. You basically have the genesis device from Wrath of Khan, any other planet could be New Krypton.

[Jeffrey2]

There are three plot points in Man of Steel that I just can't get my head around.

1. Why did Jor-El infuse the codex into his Son's DNA?

2. What did Jor-El expect Clark to do with the thumb drive that contained the AI when he gave Clark no means of actually accessing the information on it?

3. Why does Zod need to commit genocide once he has the Codex? Just take it and go to another uninhabited planet. You basically have the genesis device from Wrath of Khan, any other planet could be New Krypton.

MOS was poorly written so trying to make sense of plot points is impossible. The scene after Superman kills Zod and has a breakdown he is kissing Lois in a flirtatious moment?!

As to your points, Snyder needed to throw together stuff so he could do his third act fight that went on, and on and on which allowed him to have massive visuals of falling buildings and breaking glass. Snyder is more about visuals than storytelling.

[HsssH]

There are three plot points in Man of Steel that I just can't get my head around.

1. Why did Jor-El infuse the codex into his Son's DNA?

2. What did Jor-El expect Clark to do with the thumb drive that contained the AI when he gave Clark no means of actually accessing the information on it?

3. Why does Zod need to commit genocide once he has the Codex? Just take it and go to another uninhabited planet. You basically have the genesis device from Wrath of Khan, any other planet could be New Krypton.

1. So that Krypton would survive in one form or another?

3. Why travel somewhere when you can do it here? It is not like humans had any value for Zod.

[Jeffrey2]

The profitability of Snyder's DCEU films is getting another look on the 10 year anniversary of the Snyderverse launch. Despite what some assume, all but JL made money. Up to Aquaman.

MOS - 42 million

Shazam - 74 million

BvS - 105 million

Suicide Squad - 158 million

Wonder Woman - 252 million

Aquaman - 260 million

To give context to those numbers and complaints that Shazam got a sequel and MOS didn't and Shazam didn't make much more than MOS, the production cost has to be factored in. Shazam cost over a 100 million less than MOS. Wonder Woman and Aquaman cost about 70 million less. This is the main reason there wasn't an MOS2 in the Snyderverse. Its ROI was far less than the other DCEU films.

https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/c...f_dceu_movies/

[Lightning Rider]

My appreciation for the film grew with time.

When I first saw it, I appreciated a lot of things about it, but was a little bit jarred at things I didn't expect. Emphasizing Clark's lonely childhood, having him drift aimlessly as an adult, and having Lois know his secret identity from the jump caught me off guard. I was also very much against giving Superman a tragic dead-parent origin like Batman (and was particularly sensitive to it after Barry Allen's mother was killed in Flashpoint). The destruction at the end was also overwhelming. That said, I was still glad that Superman had been given an "update" and was set in the modern world. People who didn't normally view Superman as a compelling character had a new lens to view him through. Krypton was fleshed out (if excessively so), Zod was a credible and well-established villain, and I found Lane, Costner and Crowe to have given great performances. Lois also did quite a bit of legwork as a journalist. Once we got to the end at Metropolis, I was able to understand that this was Clark's "coming out" origin story, and that we witnessed a movie that brought us to the beginning of what could be a more familiar status quo.

With time, I read more comics, and was able to appreciate the variety of interpretation that comes with an iconic hero like Superman a little bit more, and let go of certain expectations. I also grew to appreciate how real the stakes felt and how global the threat of Zod was portrayed, especially as comic book movies got sillier and more self-referential. The scenes where Clark's parents struggle with his secret also hit home a little bit more now that I'm older; it's hard for me not to choke up when Pa Kent insists "you are my son". I don't have a problem with the neck snap in and of itself, because it really reemphasizes the choice that Clark had to make when he decided "Krypton had its chance", but I do wish that we had a scene afterwards where he digested the aftermath a little bit. I also think that the themes in BvS actually make Pa Kent's point even stronger; not everyone was going to accept such a monumental shift in our understanding. I totally understand his hesitance. And the religious themes, as heavy-handed as they were, never bothered me.

I understand that Cavill wasn't warm and approachable enough for some people, and I get that, but I think his performances grew on me because a lot of his emoting is supposed to speak for him. I read a lot of emotion into his face where maybe a lot of people expected words that hit home more directly. More dialogue certainly would not have hurt and I can see why people feel like he's the most underserved character in his own movies. But scenes like flight, which to me is one of the greatest scenes in comic book movie history, show a real earnest attempt at giving the character a meaningful journey.

It's not the Superman movie I would make, but it had plenty to enjoy and I will always look on it fondly.

[Spencermalley935]

My appreciation for the film grew with time..

It's the exact opposite for me.

I think the animated movie Superman: Man of Tomorrow did a much better of giving the character a "modern update" without sacrificing the essential humanity and optimism at his core.

[Jeffrey2]

It's the exact opposite for me.

I think the animated movie Superman: Man of Tomorrow did a much better of giving the character a "modern update" without sacrificing the essential humanity and optimism at his core.

Totally agree. Snyder's Superman did not engage audiences. From the get-go. Despite a solid release weekend, it had larger than normal drop-offs, poor WOM and barely broke even. Making just 42 million. The weakest ROI of the other Snyderverse films. Snyder did not care about the Clark/Superman duality. He trashed the canon with the Jimmy Olsen stuff and that of Pa Kent. He did it because he could. Make a mess was his aim and he did that. It particularly hurt the Superman IP and to this day that IP has not recovered. Note how Wonder Woman and Aquaman, with different directors/writers, did far better financially and much more warmly received by audiences. There is a reason Gal's WW cameos everywhere. Snyder chose to deconstruct the character in order to build him up 10 years later at the end of the arc. That arc never came to pass, and Superman today is a much less lucrative film IP than Batman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman. To the point where Hamada/Emmerich were going to drop the Superman film IP and replace it with a Supergirl film IP.