How would you have resolved the Hobgoblin mystery?

[James Cameron]

The Hobgoblin arc is generally considered one of the biggest messes in Spidey's history, up there with the Clone Saga and OMD. A four year mystery with multiple creators at the helm, all with their own ideas of who the Hobgoblin should be. The resolution to this saga was not just underwhelming, to many readers it was insulting, and the troubles would not be resolved until the Hobgoblin Lives story. Roger Stern wanted him to be Kingsley, DeFalco wanted him to be Robert Fisk, Priest wanted him to be Lance Bannon. Logically Stern should have been the one to finish it; he told DeFalco who he wanted the Hobgoblin to be but DeFalco didn't like the idea and so he started setting up his own candidate, and used Ned Leeds as a red herring. When Priest came onto the books he revealed that Robert Fisk was actually the Rose. Supposedly to spite Priest, DeFalco told comics reporters that Ned Leeds was the Hobgoblin, and in retaliation Priest controversially killed Leeds off in a (then) completely unrelated story. At some point during this period Priest fired DeFalco and in his attempts to bring a darker tone to the Spidey books was fired himself. Peter David was brought on to wrap up the Hobgoblin mystery quickly so they could completely clean the decks across the Spider titles. And with all these candidates, who does Peter David choose? The guy who was already dead.

Calling it a letdown is an understatement. The death of Ned Leeds was controversial in and of itself, but retroactively making him the Hobgoblin (requiring Peter David to almost completely retcon what Spider-Man vs Wolverine was even about) to this day never made sense to me. Why did he make that choice?

I enjoy the Hobgoblin story at least up to Gang War but it is no question that it could have been wrapped up a lot sooner than it was, especially if the plan all along was for Leeds to be the Hobgoblin which we all know it wasn't.

Of course all this is retconned ten years later in Hobgoblin Lives where it was actually Kingsley all along (as it should have been) but it didn't undo the damage done.

It is also interesting how the main reason this story arc fell apart was behind-the-scenes drama and creators looking to one up or spite each other, where in the end the ones who suffered the most were the characters and the readers.

If you were EIC or editor of the Spider titles how would you have told the Hobgoblin mystery and resolved it so a story like Hobgoblin Lives wouldn't have been necessary?

[clonegeek]

I think I would have built up to Ned Leeds actually being the Hobgoblin and have Kingsley be more of a villain in the fashion world for the Wasp to fight or something.

I'm fine with the current version though

[Daibhidh]

Ned Leeds was just a bad choice. Nothing in his backstory made him a good candidate. The idea that he was framed worked much better. Roderick Kingsley was really a bit of a non-character. Wilson Fisk's son would have been the "shocking" revelation that the villain's son was also a villain, which is rather an anticlimax. Lance Bannon might have worked: he had just enough presence in the book to be a character but not enough that his character and history excluded him being a villain.
Norman Osborn worked as the revealed identity of the Green Goblin because he was a character in his own right and had links to other characters in the supporting cast, and there were clues in the lead up to the revelation that there was more to him than there seemed.
Having said that, going for a character who hadn't even been introduced at the time of Stern's run: a left-field choice for the Hobgoblin: Philip Watson.

[clonegeek]

Ned Leeds was just a bad choice. Nothing in his backstory made him a good candidate. The idea that he was framed worked much better. Roderick Kingsley was really a bit of a non-character. Wilson Fisk's son would have been the "shocking" revelation that the villain's son was also a villain, which is rather an anticlimax. Lance Bannon might have worked: he had just enough presence in the book to be a character but not enough that his character and history excluded him being a villain.
Norman Osborn worked as the revealed identity of the Green Goblin because he was a character in his own right and had links to other characters in the supporting cast, and there were clues in the lead up to the revelation that there was more to him than there seemed.
Having said that, going for a character who hadn't even been introduced at the time of Stern's run: a left-field choice for the Hobgoblin: Philip Watson.

See I think Philip Watson should have become a villain a few years after Peter and MJ tied the knot. Maybe a new Green Goblin or something

[godisawesome]

I mostly like the eventual resolution, but executing it to be more an examination of Hobgoblin as a more rational, more cold blooded manipulator and schemer than Osborne, using proxies and catspaws, but eventually having to deal with one getting out of control. I’d keep Kingsley as the “real”Hobgoblin, and have Macendale become the rogue “pretender” who escalates things out of Kingsley’s control, forcing him to step in once more and expose himself.

I’d even have Peter realize Kingsley is Hobgoblin before Macendale goes rogue, but get frustrated being unable to prove it, and maybe have Kingsley realize that a photographer is on to him (without knowing he’s Spider-man) to become a threat to Peter that he has to outmaneuver without giving away who he is.

[Xenon]

This is a hard question because the when is so important. IIRC, PAD stated in a blog that when he was given the job, he immediately said Ned, because in his mind that's what the clues pointed to. At the time, he didn't even know that Ned was dead, at least until that meeting when he was told after suggesting Ned. So it really was a cluster, a sad ending to what is otherwise one of the best sagas in Spidey's history.

I'm working off decade old memory at this point but I don't think anyone was particularly well setup. I'm partial to Kingsley because that's how the story eventually went but like that's obviously bias talking. I will say the advantage Kindsley has is that he doesn't have the baggage that Ned did. He was this new apparently harmless character, and not someone Peter would normally cross paths with, which makes it seem less contrived. Also I like Fisk's son as the Rose because the Rose was a more hands off villain, which seems like it'd be more the style of the son of the Kingpin. That's another reason Kingsley (and admittedly Ned a bit) works. Hobgoblin didn't feel like a guy with a pre-existing scheme, he felt lie a guy who found Norman's tech and and it altered how he perceived the world. In a lot of ways Ned does work well because his job as this dogged reporter means he was various places and could feasibly find such tech, but personally I always liked Ned as just some boring Schmoe.

So, given what I know now, I'd leave Ned alive, pin it on Kingsley, probably by luck. Like Peter goes to meet Mary Jane and he's late because he fights the Hobgoblin but when he goes there it's ok because her meeting with Kingsley was late and oh look at that cut on his shoulder that Hobgoblin got in that fight we just had and Kingsley magically has it in the same place and then go from there.

[Vegeta]

Honestly, I really liked how "Hobgoblin Lives" turned out. Revealing that Kingsley had originally retired with a lot of money instead of getting himself thrown in jail or killed off made the character seem a lot smarter than most of Spidey's regular foes. The only thing I would have changed would be releasing this story earlier, like maybe in the 90's.

[Mister Mets]

They should have made Roderick Kingsley a bigger character. He was connected to MJ, but they could have done more with that- the big A-list villain's secret identity is in Mary Jane Watson's social circle? That's the foundation for a big, epic showdown.

[Xenon]

They should have made Roderick Kingsley a bigger character. He was connected to MJ, but they could have done more with that- the big A-list villain's secret identity is in Mary Jane Watson's social circle? That's the foundation for a big, epic showdown.

I almost said something about this earlier but my memory failed me about his exact role. But yes him coming from MJ's world, thought not really directly related to MJ is a nice touch or would have been had it been revealed at the time. Really would have hammered home the "it could be anybody" feeling.

[ARkadelphia]

At this point, the only thing that would make sense is to bring back The Hobgoblin as Paul Rabin.

[Daibhidh]

See I think Philip Watson should have become a villain a few years after Peter and MJ tied the knot. Maybe a new Green Goblin or something

I'm surprised they didn't. He's a compelling villain in the engagement issue. I suppose his villainy is more down to earth and realistic than the average supervillain scheme.

[CaptainUniverse]

At this point, the only thing that would make sense is to bring back The Hobgoblin as Paul Rabin.

OC Donut Steel as The Hobgoblin? No thanks.

[Celgress]

I think I would have built up to Ned Leeds actually being the Hobgoblin and have Kingsley be more of a villain in the fashion world for the Wasp to fight or something.

I'm fine with the current version though

That would have been how I'd have handled it too in a nutshell - Leeds = Hobgoblin, Kingsley = The Rose

[Godzilla2099]

Just give the mantle to Jason Macendale. For me he's the guy I'll always remember that had that name and for good reason

- Unlike the other goblins, Macendale's Origin is simple but it works. Ex-marine and now mercenary.
- His Hobgoblin was actually scary
- His Hobgoblin was the one I grew up with in the 90s (Sinister Six)
- Macendale's Hobgoblin was in the animated series
- Responsible for Demogoblin
- Killed Demogoblin by dropping a church on him
- The bad-ass cyborg Hobgoblin was also Macendale.

[bob.schoonover]

Depends on when I'm taking over - if I was coming on right after Stern, I'd like to think I'd have followed what he said, and then brought back MJ and really integrated Kingsley into her career (remember, it wasn't revealed yet that she knew Peter was Spidey, so that wouldn't be in play yet) - then Peter's stuck with trying to stop the person helping MJ's career flourish w/o her knowing about it. A parallel to what happened with Norman, but not exactly the same. That'd have been some fun, soapy tension, and a great avenue for having MJ learn Peter was Spidey. In fact, I think I'd aim for Peter to do this Goblin mystery "right" - by coming clean with MJ and keeping her in the loop, he's able to defeat Kingsley w/o losing his love.

If I was in Peter David's unenviable position, I think I'd have gone with "Hobgoblin isn't one person" or something like that - there is a goblin serum enhanced person in the costume (maybe don't even reveal who?), but there were other confederates being Hobgoblin, too. The event would end with one dead Hobgoblin (Leeds), one unmasked and jailed Hobgoblin (maybe Watson?), and Macendale getting recruited as the new Hobgoblin by a shadowy person. Essentially, solve the mystery in one sense, and set up a standard Hobgoblin for the future, but leave a bit of mystery for later.