How would you have resolved the Hobgoblin mystery?

[Xenon]

Just give the mantle to Jason Macendale. For me he's the guy I'll always remember that had that name and for good reason

- Unlike the other goblins, Macendale's Origin is simple but it works. Ex-marine and now mercenary.
- His Hobgoblin was actually scary
- His Hobgoblin was the one I grew up with in the 90s (Sinister Six)
- Macendale's Hobgoblin was in the animated series
- Responsible for Demogoblin
- Killed Demogoblin by dropping a church on him
- The bad-ass cyborg Hobgoblin was also Macendale.

Macendale alwyas felt like a joke in the comics but if we're playing what if you could totally have salvaged him into something else. Not a bad idea, honestly.

[Lairston]

At this point, the only thing that would make sense is to bring back The Hobgoblin as Paul Rabin.

Gah! My favorite villain better not be taken over by Paul Rabin.

[Xenon]

Gah! My favorite villain better not be taken over by Paul Rabin.

You will feel our pain!

[Mister Mets]

Just give the mantle to Jason Macendale. For me he's the guy I'll always remember that had that name and for good reason

- Unlike the other goblins, Macendale's Origin is simple but it works. Ex-marine and now mercenary.
- His Hobgoblin was actually scary
- His Hobgoblin was the one I grew up with in the 90s (Sinister Six)
- Macendale's Hobgoblin was in the animated series
- Responsible for Demogoblin
- Killed Demogoblin by dropping a church on him
- The bad-ass cyborg Hobgoblin was also Macendale.

I'll add another important detail which gives him more credibility than Roderick Kingsley (and I suspect even Roger Stern would agree on this point.)

He was co-created by Steve Ditko.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Machine_Man_Vol_1_19

[Mister Mets]

I almost said something about this earlier but my memory failed me about his exact role. But yes him coming from MJ's world, thought not really directly related to MJ is a nice touch or would have been had it been revealed at the time. Really would have hammered home the "it could be anybody" feeling.

Adding to that, one way to subvert expectations is to make the reveal in a story that isn't initially about the Hobgoblin.

Imagine a story where the two parts are about Kingsley, but not the Hobgoblin (a bit like how Norman Osborn was emerging as a villain in ASM #37-38.) Maybe Kingsley, who was typically depicted as a beta male, seems to be the victim of some kind of extortion effort.

Hell, maybe Mary Jane learns his secret. Part One ends with Mary Jane seeing something she's not supposed to. In Part 2, she's frantically trying to get to Peter to warn him, but the reader's not clear about what, until the final page when the revelation occurs at the last possible time for Spider-Man. So the reader doesn't know until that point that this is a story meant to expose the Hobgoblin.

[Xenon]

Adding to that, one way to subvert expectations is to make the reveal in a story that isn't initially about the Hobgoblin.

Imagine a story where the two parts are about Kingsley, but not the Hobgoblin (a bit like how Norman Osborn was emerging as a villain in ASM #37-38.) Maybe Kingsley, who was typically depicted as a beta male, seems to be the victim of some kind of extortion effort.

Hell, maybe Mary Jane learns his secret. Part One ends with Mary Jane seeing something she's not supposed to. In Part 2, she's frantically trying to get to Peter to warn him, but the reader's not clear about what, until the final page when the revelation occurs at the last possible time for Spider-Man. So the reader doesn't know until that point that this is a story meant to expose the Hobgoblin.

Yeah that could have been really cool.

And having more MJ centric issues right before they have him marry her couldn't hurt either. Makes it more of a warm up instead of what we got lol.

[CaptainUniverse]

You will feel our pain!

All will be as one with Paul! "We are the Paul. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness as our own while pretending that committing genocide and feeling guilty about it is the same as being Spider-Man. Resistance is Futile."

[godisawesome]

Macendale alwyas felt like a joke in the comics but if we're playing what if you could totally have salvaged him into something else. Not a bad idea, honestly.

I’ve been thinking that if the MCU ever wanted it’s own Goblin, but to make sure he was set apart from the Green Goblin, you’d use Macendale, base his motivations and backstabbing nature off of the TAS version, and then ramp up his competence and pragmatism to be something totally different from Norman… but also orient his repeated mistakes into a thematic concept of him running form his responsibilities and consequences, and getting deeper and deeper in debt to worse and worse forces, even as he remains a superior combatant to Spider-Man.

[clonegeek]

I’ve been thinking that if the MCU ever wanted it’s own Goblin, but to make sure he was set apart from the Green Goblin, you’d use Macendale, base his motivations and backstabbing nature off of the TAS version, and then ramp up his competence and pragmatism to be something totally different from Norman… but also orient his repeated mistakes into a thematic concept of him running form his responsibilities and consequences, and getting deeper and deeper in debt to worse and worse forces, even as he remains a superior combatant to Spider-Man.

This take on Macendale would be great, hell you could have Kingsly be somebody he is in debt to.

[Xenon]

All will be as one with Paul! "We are the Paul. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness as our own while pretending that committing genocide and feeling guilty about it is the same as being Spider-Man. Resistance is Futile."

[godisawesome]

This take on Macendale would be great, hell you could have Kingsly be somebody he is in debt to.

Just imagine his backstory being an escalating list of dirty deeds, dirty deals, and dirty backstabbing; like, he’s a decorated but dirty SHIELD agent who gets blackmailed into Hydra, then betrays Hydra to serve Kingsley or Kingpin on their bigger, Enhanced issues, and looks to betray them by making a deal with dark magic, ending up with EVERYONE (Shield, Hydra, Kingsley, and Kingpin) all hating his guts and wanting him dead, while stuck with Mephistopheles or someone else holding his leash… but now as some terrible, highly trained, cyborgized, dark-magic infused warrior.

[clonegeek]

Just imagine his backstory being an escalating list of dirty deeds, dirty deals, and dirty backstabbing; like, he’s a decorated but dirty SHIELD agent who gets blackmailed into Hydra, then betrays Hydra to serve Kingsley or Kingpin on their bigger, Enhanced issues, and looks to betray them by making a deal with dark magic, ending up with EVERYONE (Shield, Hydra, Kingsley, and Kingpin) all hating his guts and wanting him dead, while stuck with Mephistopheles or someone else holding his leash… but now as some terrible, highly trained, cyborgized, dark-magic infused warrior.

Why isn't Sony greenlighting this take as not only for the MCU but as a film spin off of the Hobgoblin?

[Mistah K88]

I'm partial to Kingsley, but that's mainly bias as to how things turned out...but in reality was he EVER even considered a contender before he was revealed? From my memory he was a non character in the books until after he was unmasked. As mentioned there was little to nothing done with his occupation which put him in the same circles as MJ, and the one time he made it into an adaptation they changed his career (which kind of makes more sense in hindsight with the whole formula thing). I think the only thing that made sense with Kingsley Hobgoblin wise back in the day is that he was rich.

That said, I liked the twin angle (even though I want to say Stern said Daniel and Roderick weren't twins), as it's in that semi dumb, "dramedy" comic booky thing that I tend to enjoy. That said, to make it less contrived you really have to set up the character(s). I would be more obvious that Kingsley's characterization was inconsistent. It wouldn't give you the impression of twins (as who would have guessed that?), but seeing him enough to know that his behavior was off would have made things feel a bit less random.

[JBatmanFan05]

They should have made Roderick Kingsley a bigger character. He was connected to MJ, but they could have done more with that- the big A-list villain's secret identity is in Mary Jane Watson's social circle? That's the foundation for a big, epic showdown.

This. As EIC, Stern would write. Instead of the lame terrible Ned reveal, what instead would have happened would have been a slow gradual uptick in appearances of Roderick Kingsley (and maybe Daniel), Roderick's integration into MJ's life, as others have said. Enough to maybe raise some suspicion that he could be a suspect, but enough other stuff going on to throw readers off the scent.

Eventually, I (ideally via writer Roger Stern) might have built up to a Agatha Christiesque Italian-gialloesque Spidey story where Peter, who's not a top detective, finally, perhaps with help, adds up all the small clues (intimate knowledge of The Century Club, etc) and makes some correct deductions which lead him toward Kingsley, who perhaps attacks Peter first when Peter gets too close to the truth.

Peter-MJ-Roderick...an action-filled drama-filled romantic mystery. Would have been a great climax.


(All that being said, I LOVE Hobgoblin Lives. So all this is just imagining a replacement to an already great story, a great story which I can admit: should have not been necessary.)

[Scott Taylor]

And now I understand that Leeds really is the Hobgoblin again, even though he wasn't in Hobgoblin lives. So weird.

For me the problem is that the whole thing was an unnecessary goblin mystery created and held on to due to Norman's absence from the comics. If they wanted a goblin character back it should have just been Norman. But instead they introduced this mystery guy and then dragged the mystery on and on for no other purpose than to make readers wonder. Mistake. When Ditko introduced Green Goblin, you know really quickly who that was. And Romita turned it up to 11, intertwining him and Peter on a personal basis and cementing GG/Norman Osborn as a Spidey villain.

Stern should have done the reveal early in his run. Marvel still would have had its replacement goblin character and it would allow for much more tension and to build up an actual new character who had a double life. But since Stern didn't follow that path, the character was half a character with no personal connection to anyone. Developing that connection was left to the next guys - Priest and PAD - and man did they blow it. Who cares about Ned Leeds, he's the most boring guy ever. And by the time Hobgoblin Lives came out, the smoke had cleared and the story felt like an afterthought. Norman was back at that point so who cared?

Who knows, had Hobgoblin's ID been revealed early we may never have seen Norman return from the dead. Or perhaps better we would have two very strong goblin characters who were vying for superiority and Peter caught in the middle.