I'll add another important detail which gives him more credibility than Roderick Kingsley (and I suspect even Roger Stern would agree on this point.)
He was co-created by Steve Ditko.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Machine_Man_Vol_1_19
Sincerely,
Thomas Mets
Adding to that, one way to subvert expectations is to make the reveal in a story that isn't initially about the Hobgoblin.
Imagine a story where the two parts are about Kingsley, but not the Hobgoblin (a bit like how Norman Osborn was emerging as a villain in ASM #37-38.) Maybe Kingsley, who was typically depicted as a beta male, seems to be the victim of some kind of extortion effort.
Hell, maybe Mary Jane learns his secret. Part One ends with Mary Jane seeing something she's not supposed to. In Part 2, she's frantically trying to get to Peter to warn him, but the reader's not clear about what, until the final page when the revelation occurs at the last possible time for Spider-Man. So the reader doesn't know until that point that this is a story meant to expose the Hobgoblin.
Sincerely,
Thomas Mets
"The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe
"Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin
"You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker
I’ve been thinking that if the MCU ever wanted it’s own Goblin, but to make sure he was set apart from the Green Goblin, you’d use Macendale, base his motivations and backstabbing nature off of the TAS version, and then ramp up his competence and pragmatism to be something totally different from Norman… but also orient his repeated mistakes into a thematic concept of him running form his responsibilities and consequences, and getting deeper and deeper in debt to worse and worse forces, even as he remains a superior combatant to Spider-Man.
Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?
I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP
Just imagine his backstory being an escalating list of dirty deeds, dirty deals, and dirty backstabbing; like, he’s a decorated but dirty SHIELD agent who gets blackmailed into Hydra, then betrays Hydra to serve Kingsley or Kingpin on their bigger, Enhanced issues, and looks to betray them by making a deal with dark magic, ending up with EVERYONE (Shield, Hydra, Kingsley, and Kingpin) all hating his guts and wanting him dead, while stuck with Mephistopheles or someone else holding his leash… but now as some terrible, highly trained, cyborgized, dark-magic infused warrior.
Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?
I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP
I'm partial to Kingsley, but that's mainly bias as to how things turned out...but in reality was he EVER even considered a contender before he was revealed? From my memory he was a non character in the books until after he was unmasked. As mentioned there was little to nothing done with his occupation which put him in the same circles as MJ, and the one time he made it into an adaptation they changed his career (which kind of makes more sense in hindsight with the whole formula thing). I think the only thing that made sense with Kingsley Hobgoblin wise back in the day is that he was rich.
That said, I liked the twin angle (even though I want to say Stern said Daniel and Roderick weren't twins), as it's in that semi dumb, "dramedy" comic booky thing that I tend to enjoy. That said, to make it less contrived you really have to set up the character(s). I would be more obvious that Kingsley's characterization was inconsistent. It wouldn't give you the impression of twins (as who would have guessed that?), but seeing him enough to know that his behavior was off would have made things feel a bit less random.
This. As EIC, Stern would write. Instead of the lame terrible Ned reveal, what instead would have happened would have been a slow gradual uptick in appearances of Roderick Kingsley (and maybe Daniel), Roderick's integration into MJ's life, as others have said. Enough to maybe raise some suspicion that he could be a suspect, but enough other stuff going on to throw readers off the scent.
Eventually, I (ideally via writer Roger Stern) might have built up to a Agatha Christiesque Italian-gialloesque Spidey story where Peter, who's not a top detective, finally, perhaps with help, adds up all the small clues (intimate knowledge of The Century Club, etc) and makes some correct deductions which lead him toward Kingsley, who perhaps attacks Peter first when Peter gets too close to the truth.
Peter-MJ-Roderick...an action-filled drama-filled romantic mystery. Would have been a great climax.
(All that being said, I LOVE Hobgoblin Lives. So all this is just imagining a replacement to an already great story, a great story which I can admit: should have not been necessary.)
Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 06-28-2023 at 02:34 PM.
Things I love: Batman, Superman, AEW, old films, Lovecraft
Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”
And now I understand that Leeds really is the Hobgoblin again, even though he wasn't in Hobgoblin lives. So weird.
For me the problem is that the whole thing was an unnecessary goblin mystery created and held on to due to Norman's absence from the comics. If they wanted a goblin character back it should have just been Norman. But instead they introduced this mystery guy and then dragged the mystery on and on for no other purpose than to make readers wonder. Mistake. When Ditko introduced Green Goblin, you know really quickly who that was. And Romita turned it up to 11, intertwining him and Peter on a personal basis and cementing GG/Norman Osborn as a Spidey villain.
Stern should have done the reveal early in his run. Marvel still would have had its replacement goblin character and it would allow for much more tension and to build up an actual new character who had a double life. But since Stern didn't follow that path, the character was half a character with no personal connection to anyone. Developing that connection was left to the next guys - Priest and PAD - and man did they blow it. Who cares about Ned Leeds, he's the most boring guy ever. And by the time Hobgoblin Lives came out, the smoke had cleared and the story felt like an afterthought. Norman was back at that point so who cared?
Who knows, had Hobgoblin's ID been revealed early we may never have seen Norman return from the dead. Or perhaps better we would have two very strong goblin characters who were vying for superiority and Peter caught in the middle.
Last edited by Scott Taylor; 06-28-2023 at 09:12 PM.
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