Rate the Becky Cloonan/Michael Conrad run/era

[Gaius]

There's been discussion of this going on in the main thread but thought I'd make a final poll since it concluded yesterday. As per the title, how you rate the run by Cloonan/Conrad?

For me;

Good
-Afterworlds arc was the best and most of their ruin up to ToA I thought was fairly good
-Deadman was an actually nice out-of-leftfield companion for Diana when he showed up. Liked him more than Siggy if I'm honest
-Willing to use obscure/older villains. Not always my favorites and not always done well but this has been something WW fans have been asking for, so I think it deserves some credit
-Rotating art team sucked but when they got good artists (Moore, Sauvage) it did a lot of heavy lifting
-Don't like the Trinity but the issue with Superman and Batman was nice for what is was.
-Wasn't by them but I liked the Young Diana backup for the most part.

Bad
-Their characterization of Diana was very odd/frustrating at times. It was nice to see a bit more spunkiness in their version but at times came across as way too amateurish for someone whose been active as long as Diana should be. And then how weirdly okay she was with some pretty stark violence.
-Run pretty much derailed with ToA and never recovered. Main criticism of them not being able to give high stakes is evident here and in RoTG
-Revenge of the Gods is somehow even worse? This isn't entirely on them as Wilson also wrote this though.
-While it was nice older villains were brought back, I can't say I cared for all re-inventions
-Rotating artists situation sucked.


Honestly, I would say the biggest thing that hurt this book for me was that it came out around the same time as Historia. I know it's not really fair to compare a mainline book to one with a lot more creative freedom but seeing how Hippolyta (and especially Hera) were handled there did hurt the main book for me because of the very different view I have now of them. And that it felt like there was finally a Wonder project living up to the mythos' potential.

[WonderLight789]

I think a mediocre option should be there in the poll. That is how i feerl about it. It felt like it was just there. Going through the motion. Nothing felt special about iit to me. And WW felt pretty generic personality wise, and pretty weak action and power wise.

[Nyssane]

THE GOOD:

• Wonder Woman's sass felt very Golden Age-y, and I love that.
• Siggy is a great addition to the Wonder Family. Will he ever appear again? Probably not, but he can chill in limbo with the other beloved WW supporting characters like Ferdinand and Julia Kapatelis.
• Etta Candy and the Holliday Girls being closer to their Golden Age counterparts is right up my alley. I also really liked their Steve Trevor.
• Doctor Psycho was mostly very good. I think he was overused, but I really liked their characterization of him.
• Bringing Villainy Inc. back was notable.

THE BAD:

• Cheetah's redemption was way too hasty and felt completely incompatible with previous versions of the character. I'd go so far as to say I hated Cheetah's depiction in this run.
• The run sort of peters out. I'm not sure what happened, but each issue declined in overall excitement and great plots.
• Trial of the Amazons was just... meh. And for the first big WW event since Amazons Attack, this one NEEDED to be a homerun.
• Hera as a villain just isn't interesting after her amazing depiction in Historia.
• Villainy Inc.'s roster is lackluster. It doesn't sit well with me that they take one of the few all-female teams and makes it a misogynist group of milk-pushers.
• The inconsistent art didn't help the wavering story quality.

[bardkeep]

Without question the best parts of this era of WW canon were things from outside of the ongoing, specifically both of Stephanie Williams' Nubia series and Young Diana.

I said the Cloonan/Conrad run was "okay" but that's just because I liked the first couple of arcs well enough and I don't think it did much to actively harm the character (unlike Heinberg/Picoult, Azzarello, the Finches, Kanigher, O'Neil, etc.). Tbh I thought it was mostly quite bad.

The Good:

- Great takes on Etta and Steve. Easily the best in-canon take on Etta since Gail Simone and the best Steve since Rucka.

- Siggy was a fun addition, though not necessarily one I can see sticking around.

- Afterworlds was a lot of fun and I enjoyed the second arc with Deadman. I also liked Future State: Immortal WW.

- The whole era brought a ton of really cool new stuff to Amazon lore (along with Stephanie Williams' Nubia series, Joelle Jones' Wonder Girl, and Young Diana).

- Was fun to see the return of some long-forgotten villains like Image-Maker and Professor Calculus, even though they didn't do all that much with them. And making Dr. Psycho an Alex Jones-esque alt-right grifter was clever.

The Bad:

- Their characterization of Diana. It never felt like they had a firm grasp on her at all, and at no point did she ever really feel like Diana to me. I like when she has a little more sass and humor, but a lot of things were jarringly out of character and I rarely felt the warmth, heroism, or resolve that her best writers capture.

- They'd repeatedly introduce huge bombshells and then drop them without a thought or just not think them through at all. Revealing that Veronica Cale's company was behind the factory that was holding Cheetah and then never addressing it again. The whole thing with Altuum and Themyscira before the Amazons, which was incredibly ill-conceived to begin with but also just kinda got resolved without a real explanation. What Hippolyta's plan was with becoming a goddess. Cheetah suddenly being a good guy with no problems or fallout whatsoever. Etc., etc.

- In general it felt poorly planned and unfocused, and certain things just felt like they carried on forever for no reason (e.g. the damn milk). It all just felt like amateur writing.

- The events were both lousy. Trial of the Amazons was a huge dud and the run never recovered from it. Revenge of the Gods was legitimately awful, though of course a lot of that falls on GWW.

- Simultaneously too much action and too little action. Idk how else to describe it. It just felt like there weren't a lot of words on the pages but the action wasn't very good either...

- The lack of a consistent artist. The individual artists were mostly good (especially Travis Moore during his tenure) but it all felt really disjointed.

All in all I think this run is gonna go down as a major deep cut. It's not good, but it's not so bad that it stands out amongst the other lousy runs in WW's history and Cloonan/Conrad aren't high-profile enough to be noteworthy (like Joelle Jones, Becky Cloonan is a popular artist but a C/D-list writer). In a few years, people's recollection of the ongoing is most likely gonna be Rucka --> King.

[Psy-lock]

The run would've been significantly better without the two events. But as it is it's just OK. The highlights for me are the first arc, Siggy, Etta's characterization, and seeing some old-school characters.

[HestiasHearth]

Big ole meh.

[Dr. Poison]

I thought it was one of the best runs on the title. Cloonrad poured so much heart into this title. Was it perfect? No, but I enjoyed a lot more than I disliked. My favorite stories were the Afterworlds, Villainy Inc, and Trial of the Amazons arcs. Their use of Siggy, Ratatosk, Deadman, Dr. Pscyho, Steve, & Etta was great. I also enjoyed their use of the Olympians which is pretty rare for me to say. I loved the tone of their run and their characterization of Diana was pretty solid.

The major drawbacks for me were the rotating artists after Travis Moore left and their use of Dr. Poison was kind of "blah" but it was still better than Meredith Finch's use of her.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

I maintain that I really enjoyed the run overall.
The first arc with Diana working her way back to Earth was one of the best ive read in quite some time.
The Image-Maker story really established that this team knows how to take existing villains and reinvent them in interesting and fascinating ways.

Even the annual which Altuum the Survivor was introduced in was a treat. With him establishing that his people were exiled from the island and that they have been lying in wait for thousands of years for the time to strike, having begun their efforts when Diana was declared dead, and unable to cancel their attack, Altuum attempted to hold a museum hostage and convince Diana to not interfere. Even establishing that they have been in hiding beneath the waves off the shores of the island this entire time.

But then...Trial of the Amazons happened and somehow this run is required to tie into plot threads established in Wonder Girl and it feels like whatever their original intention was, it just got derailed by higher ups and their run became about trying to work within the confines of a story that they had little say or control over.

What was Altuum, one of a people who were beneath the waves lying in wait....Became a single guy in a submarine whose plan is retconned to have been entirely brought about BECAUSE of Wonder Woman coming back to life. They really didn't seem to have alot of agency in this arc and were working with what they had.

What was Doctor Psycho being established as this big new threat who was a respected public figure who was using his mental abilities to cause havoc without publicly outing his villainous behavior became instead a minion for Hera for no explained reason on his motives. This arc had some fascinating elements, but it really felt like they were constrained and limited.

And the final arc was a promotional for Shazam: Fury of the Gods with the Marvel family teaming up with the Wonder family to wrap up the 'Hera is evulz and has been plotting with Eros for decades' plot line from Wonder Girl. Its central conciet was someone elses idea. Its crossover was an editorial decision. The writing was half being handled by an entirely different writer.

Hardly the first run of Wonder Woman to be derailed by outside forces, and its not like people denounce Ruckas first run as a train wreck even if it entirely abandoned its intended plot line and went out with a wimper around the repeatedly mantra'd declaration that Wonder Woman needed to be punished for the maxwell lord thing which editorial forced onto the writer.

[Sebastianne]

I'd love to vote "great" as I've enjoyed this run so much, especially those first 15 issues. The annual and the TotA event promised a lot, but that's where the devacle began.
I really liked the characterization of almost all the characters, especially Diana, Etta, Steve, Siggy and Deadman. His Dr. Psycho is the best I've read about the character. And reading Conrad's tweet you can see, as I had been saying for a long time, that there was a lot of editorial mandate sticking its claws in there. A pity really.
Even so, they did not have the talent to overcome that and in the end they gave us some mediocre numbers, especially The Revenge of the Gods, in which, I must be honest, their back up story of the Amazons was the best of that event.
And I think we must not forget that at this stage it was about building a more cohesive Wonderverse, which had its good moments (Nubia) and its not so good moments (Yara). And many things remained unresolved loose ideas (Holiday girls, Cheetah's redemption, Steve's girlfriend, Villainy Inc., etc.)
At the end a GOOD run.

[Primal Slayer]

I would say it was okay.

It started out GREAT. Totally love the first arc, it was fresh/fun/Totally wsnt to see it adapted into a dtv....but they never were able to get back to that sadly.

Mirror Master was a fun arc.

But by the time we got to Trials...it just went downhill. None of it makes much sense and seemed rushed with no real weight to the stories.

They did a great job with introducing Siggy and adding him to the cast. Also enjoyed what they did with Steve.

Unfortunately Cassie/Donna were largely ignored. Yara wasn't integrated well and the Amazons just kind of suffered from poor writing


What little we got of Cheetah wasn't that enticing or exciting.

[OBrianTallent]

I would say it was okay.

It started out GREAT. Totally love the first arc, it was fresh/fun/Totally wsnt to see it adapted into a dtv....but they never were able to get back to that sadly.

Mirror Master was a fun arc.

But by the time we got to Trials...it just went downhill. None of it makes much sense and seemed rushed with no real weight to the stories.

They did a great job with introducing Siggy and adding him to the cast. Also enjoyed what they did with Steve.

Unfortunately Cassie/Donna were largely ignored. Yara wasn't integrated well and the Amazons just kind of suffered from poor writing


What little we got of Cheetah wasn't that enticing or exciting.

For those reasons I would rate the run a little higher, I would give them a "Good" rating. Trial really pulled the book down and I feel like there were too many voices without a clear direction as to what and where they were going. I admire what they were trying to do...give us an epic story in the vein of Batman's or Superman's but I don't think the writers involved or the editors have the experience or the ability to deliver what they were intending to do.

Wonder Woman's stories otherwise were fun and engaging over all.

The negatives for me were the lack of Cassie and Donna, the poor integration of Yara (and pushing her over Cassie and Donna). Trial of the Amazons had SO much potential that all just fell flat in that it was rushed and had a lack of gravitas.

Overall I feel like if they had just stuck to Diana, Steve, Etta and Sigfried...we could have gotten a much more solid run. I dont need the next "Dark Knight Returns", I just need a good solid fun story. I still give them much higher marks than GWW's run and Tamaki's run but just under Orlando's.

[Koriand'r]

It's no secret that I loved it. It's easily the best run since Rucka's Rebirth and beside Cloonrad the art was often fantastic. It was a good time all the way around and I'm awful sad it's over. For the first time ever, it really felt like we had an actual Wonderverse and it was great while it lasted.

[Skytten]

THE GOOD:

• Wonder Woman's sass felt very Golden Age-y, and I love that.
• Siggy is a great addition to the Wonder Family. Will he ever appear again? Probably not, but he can chill in limbo with the other beloved WW supporting characters like Ferdinand and Julia Kapatelis.
• Etta Candy and the Holliday Girls being closer to their Golden Age counterparts is right up my alley. I also really liked their Steve Trevor.
• Doctor Psycho was mostly very good. I think he was overused, but I really liked their characterization of him.
• Bringing Villainy Inc. back was notable.

THE BAD:

• Cheetah's redemption was way too hasty and felt completely incompatible with previous versions of the character. I'd go so far as to say I hated Cheetah's depiction in this run.
• The run sort of peters out. I'm not sure what happened, but each issue declined in overall excitement and great plots.
• Trial of the Amazons was just... meh. And for the first big WW event since Amazons Attack, this one NEEDED to be a homerun.
• Hera as a villain just isn't interesting after her amazing depiction in Historia.
• Villainy Inc.'s roster is lackluster. It doesn't sit well with me that they take one of the few all-female teams and makes it a misogynist group of milk-pushers.
• The inconsistent art didn't help the wavering story quality.

This is very much how I feel about this run.
I don't mind Hera as a villain, but this wasn't good use of her at all.
Really liked Deadman and how he was used.

[JLH]

It was a rollercoaster ride for me. There were issues that I absolutely loved would consider "page turners," and then there were issues when I considered dropping the title for the first time in almost 50 years. I guess the back-ups played a strong part in my considering dropping the series though; they really haven't been anything I'm interested in. I'd much prefer seeing stories involving Donna or Cassie.

[Mel Dyer]

I thought it was one of the best runs on the title. Cloonrad poured so much heart into this title. Was it perfect? No, but I enjoyed a lot more than I disliked. My favorite stories were the Afterworlds, Villainy Inc, and Trial of the Amazons arcs. Their use of Siggy, Ratatosk, Deadman, Dr. Pscyho, Steve, & Etta was great. I also enjoyed their use of the Olympians which is pretty rare for me to say. I loved the tone of their run and their characterization of Diana was pretty solid.

The major drawbacks for me were the rotating artists after Travis Moore left and their use of Dr. Poison was kind of "blah" but it was still better than Meredith Finch's use of her.

The BEST of Team Amazon 2021-23...

⭐️Best Cast since the Golden Age
⭐️Best Villain since Perez's Ares - Janus
⭐️Among Most Imaginative Stories ever written - "Afterworlds"
⭐️Best New Character - Siegfried the Viking
⭐️Best New Characterization of Existing Character - Cheetah

"Imagine...

Etta Candy, sharp-shooting Texas rancher-girl!

Colonel Steve, ex-militaire coming out of World War II!

Dr. Minerva, weird, werecat lady scientist and...

Siegfried the Viking, dragon-slaying hero of German myth!

Now, imagine them joining William Moulton Marston's Wonder Woman ..and over three-thousand savage, half-naked AMAZONS, ..red-hot from the Amazing Amazon's wild, time-leaping, empire-toppling adventures in the Golden Age of COMICS! That would've been a helluva leap into the Silver Age Fifties for this historically low-selling comic, ..if it had happened. Well, it didn't happen...but I will always feel it's the SILVER AGE comic that should have been, coming out of World War II - one that might have rivalled Superman's, Green Lantern's or Marvel's Avengers or Fantastic Four.

Bringing magic and science together, as Wonder Woman herself does, ..Janus-creators Michael W. Conrad and Becky Cloonan have finally given the leading lady the sort of classic, all-seasons archenemy, she's been missing since World War II! As Janus warps the fabric of Time and reality, ripping worlds apart in her quest for cosmic domination, we imagine...the BEST of what makes Joker, Darkseid, Circe, Cheetah and Brainiac work.

A second Silver Age ..for Wonder Woman..." - Mel Dyer (excerpt from blogposts on Wondabunga)