Tim Drake: Robin #10 Preview (Final Issue)

[ayanestar]

The perfect chance to reinvent Tim and give his characters more edge was most likely during the revamp in 2011, but it did the exact opposite for Tim and now he is less relevant than Jason used to be. It also doesn't help that majority of DC writers are stuck in the 90s and just see Tim as nothing more as a sidekick, and even that isn't a viable role for him anymore.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

The perfect chance to reinvent Tim and give his characters more edge was most likely during the revamp in 2011, but it did the exact opposite for Tim and now he is less relevant than Jason used to be. It also doesn't help that majority of DC writers are stuck in the 90s and just see Tim as nothing more as a sidekick, and even that isn't a viable role for him anymore.

The inclusion of the Batman and Robin series makes him being Bruce's partner more superflous

[Aahz]

So that is twice a black Robin was blocked by the WB.
The first time costed not only a costume but paying Marlon Wayans for two movies that he was never in.
Now this.

So who got released that allowed Duke to be Robin on Bat Car show?

I think that had more to do with the animated movies, I mean it felt like he was the main character of about half the animazed movies in their new shared universe. And if they really saw him as popular enough for that, killing him of seems really like a bad idea.

And if you look just at the last decade or so, it is pretty clear that new characters catching on is something that rarely happens.

[Godlike13]

Relatively new since most comic characters are 80 years old, but realistically Damian is 20 years old at this point in the real world. He ain't that new. And in the context of Synder's run Damian was not present for years. It could've worked. We are Robin was not making him Robin. That was a side story, something to make up for what they planned to do in the book and decided not to. People saw it for what it was and was not interested. I guess it was John's idea to give him powers and a different theme to make him distinct from the rest of the bat-family, but I think it had the opposite effect and ostracizes him cause he feels too different. If they didn't want to go the Robin route then training him to become different kinds of partners like Bluebird or Lark would've been much better imo.

Agreed on the trend chasing re the Robins though.

Damian was only Robin for 6 year before We Are Robin. He was still a new Robin at that point. We Are Robin was them exploring the idea of having multiple new Robins. People weren't really interested. Maybe there could have been circumstances that made it work if they did this or did that, but that's not how it turned out.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Wasn't the black Robin in films not done once Burton left the project ? I had sworn that Burton was at 1st gonna do Batman 3 and they had deals in place for some of the people (Wayans) and once Returns didn't do what WB wanted and they wanted a change in tone....the entire deal was junked.

[dietrich]

Wasn't the black Robin in films not done once Burton left the project ? I had sworn that Burton was at 1st gonna do Batman 3 and they had deals in place for some of the people (Wayans) and once Returns didn't do what WB wanted and they wanted a change in tone....the entire deal was junked.

According to the making of documentary, Robin was supposed to be in the first movie. The movie was initially included the scenes of the circus and the Graysons death.

However the Director wasn't a fan of the character. He felt that Robin did not fit the world of Batman.
Burton managed to convince WB to move Robin's introduction to the next movie then following the success of the 89 movie he negotiated a deal to get rid of Robin entirely.

Storyboards for the first Burton movie had scenes of the flying Graysons.

The book Titan's Companion, includes an interview with Neal Adams where he discusses how and why the Golden age Robin suit was redesigned.

WB wanted an updated look for the Robin character that would fit the dark world of Tim Burton's movie. They had tried to do it in-house via DC comics but DC refused stating that the Golden age look was iconic and it would be damage the character if the look was changed.

This forced WB to commission an outside contractors which is when they reached out to Neal who wasn't under contract with DC at the time.

Robin's role was pushed back but after execs at DC saw Neal's updated Robin suit they liked it so much they started bids to acquire it for the comics. DC comics contacted the owners of the redesigned Robin suit, Neal Adams and WB in the hopes of acquiring the look for their new Robin's debut.

This account lines up the Making of Documentary.

Burton didn't want to use Robin whereas WB must have. Which is why the character appeared once another creator was put in charge.

If Burton managed to convince WB that Robin wasn't suitable for the dark tone of his movie then when WB decided to go for a lighter tone with the next director the role was recast along with every other role.

Casting and Recasting is typically done by the Casting director with input from the Film Director and the Production company.

From the looks of things even back in the late 80's WB had no problem bring a Black Robin to the Screen.

[dietrich]

So that is twice a black Robin was blocked by the WB.
The first time costed not only a costume but paying Marlon Wayans for two movies that he was never in.
Now this.

So who got released that allowed Duke to be Robin on Bat Car show?

WB entered into contract with Marlon Wayans back in 88/89 for him to play Robin until Burton successfully kept him out of his movies.

Meaning that WB was willing to bring a Black Robin to Big Screen all the way back in 89.

WB Animation has Duke as the Robin in BatWheels.

WB Animation has a movie universe where one of the leads is a Racially ambiguous though clearly not entirely Caucasian Robin

There's not evidence that WB ever blocked a Black Robin. What we have is the fact that WB decided not to replace a Chinese Middle Eastern/North African European Robin with An African American Robin. Which good on them. Minorities at this point shouldn't be erasing other minorities.

Chinese and Middle Eastern people need representation. Mixed race people need representation.

I'm glad they didn't erase the solo positive ME representation in the Batman Franchise [we already lost Suren] and one of the few ME Heroic characters in Western Comics.

[marvelprince]

Damian was only Robin for 6 year before We Are Robin. He was still a new Robin at that point. We Are Robin was them exploring the idea of having multiple new Robins. People weren't really interested. Maybe there could have been circumstances that made it work if they did this or did that, but that's not how it turned out.

Forgot Damian was only six at the time. Fair enough.

Disagree on We Are Robin. It was only connected to Batman through Alfred (barely), it was never framed as anything official, more like a movement. Dc didn't consider it anything official so of course the fans didn't. And despite that and being shoved in the corner the characters were popular enough that they keep popping up. I guess it was better than Duke being sent into limbo but it was definitely a step down from what he was initially conceived to be.

[WebLurker]

Tim's defining characteristic, and his best stories stim from this, is the fact that he doesn't want this life, but he can't get out of it because he's the only one willing to do it out of a sense of obligation.

Sounds a little thin and expected (heroes who subvert this are often the exception to the rule).

[Aahz]

Damian was only Robin for 6 year before We Are Robin.

He had also also far less consistency than at least Dick and Tim had due to constant reboots, relaunches and changes of direction and changes of direction and creative teams, so he feels still newer than they felt after they were 5-10 years into their runs.

I mean Damain is now arround roughly as long as Tim was before Damain was introduced (about 17 years). Tim's Robin ongoing had at the time lasted for around 150 issues (in addition to appearences in the other batman books and and team books), with iirc about 100 written by the same writer.

Damian has had afaik at this point not had a single solo books that got even to issue 18.