Tim Drake: Robin #10 Preview (Final Issue)

[ayanestar]

Just about sums up a lot of his decisions at DC .

I wonder how much money DC wasted on hiring Bendis.

[Frontier]

I wonder how much money DC wasted on hiring Bendis.

Especially for diminishing returns, and I didn't even hate 100% of his stuff.

[Jackalope89]

I wonder how much money DC wasted on hiring Bendis.

Considering his most well received contribution only got a mini and 1 season series (for some reason) and has otherwise vanished into oblivion, along with most of his other major "contributions" are still controversial at best?

They wasted a megaton of money.

[CPSparkles]

If I'm not mistaken, both Duke and Harper were considered for the new Robin, but Snyder quickly changed his mind, because it was obvious, that Damian was coming back.

Snyder didn't change his mind. WB overruled DC and Snyder which was why the alternative action of transferring Damian over to the Superman editorial office was taken.

Snyder confirmed that there were plans to have Duke be the next Robin but WB sent an email preventing that because they had plans for Damian.


Snyder's run continued as planned with Duke and Harper as the new allies except that Duke wasn't able to officially take up the Robin mantle. Duke later became The Daytime hero in Rebirth following advice from Geoff Johns.

Johns advised that it'd serve Duke better if he moved quickly to carve a niche that wasn't Robin-like since there were too many Robin-like characters in Gotham.

Which makes me wonder what plans were changed in Rebirth since Damian wasn't in Rebirth Tec or batman or All Star during Rebirth. It was just Tim.

[CPSparkles]

Considering his most well received contribution only got a mini and 1 season series (for some reason) and has otherwise vanished into oblivion, along with most of his other major "contributions" are still controversial at best?

They wasted a megaton of money.

If you are talking about aging jon up, I don't think that was a personal by Bendis. The 5G plans clearly came from higher ups

[skyvolt2000]

Snyder didn't change his mind. WB overruled DC and Snyder which was why the alternative action of transferring Damian over to the Superman editorial office was taken.

Snyder confirmed that there were plans to have Duke be the next Robin but WB sent an email preventing that because they had plans for Damian.


Snyder's run continued as planned with Duke and Harper as the new allies except that Duke wasn't able to officially take up the Robin mantle. Duke later became The Daytime hero in Rebirth following advice from Geoff Johns.

So that is twice a black Robin was blocked by the WB.
The first time costed not only a costume but paying Marlon Wayans for two movies that he was never in.
Now this.

So who got released that allowed Duke to be Robin on Bat Car show?

Which makes me wonder what plans were changed in Rebirth since Damian wasn't in Rebirth Tec or batman or All Star during Rebirth. It was just Tim.

Probably Damian's return probably wasn't plotted out ahead enough for those early arcs.

[Astralabius]

Probably Damian's return probably wasn't plotted out ahead enough for those early arcs.

Unlikely. The decision to bring Damian back must have already been made when Tomasi began the Robin Rises arc which took several months to wrap up. Then there was one arc with Damian back alive before the book ended because Snyder gave Bruce amnesia. Then Damian had an entire solo book that ran for a year before it got cut short by Rebirth.

Tec by Tynion had Tim because Tynion being the Tim fanboy that he is wanted to return Tim to the Robin mantle. He made Tim work in Gotham as Bruce's partner and made him wear the Robin colors again. They only slapped a second R on Tim's chest because technically Damian was still Robin and DC probably didn't allow Tynion to go that far.

Tom King had been told to push Duke at the start of his run and only dropped it once DC agreed to let him do his bat cat bat cat, boat street boat street, meow thing.

All Star was by Scott Snyder who has talked about not wanting to use Damian because he doesn't like writing children in dangerous situations because he had a son around Damian's age at the time. Plus he was also trying to push Duke since he created the character.

I don't think it was because the writers weren't told Damian would return in time. DC doesn't plan that far ahead.

I think DC simply happened to pick writers that weren't interested in Damian to write the Rebirth batbooks and editorial was focused more on giving Duke a push since Damian was already an established and popular character while Duke still had problems catching on.

[Fergus]

So that is twice a black Robin was blocked by the WB.
The first time costed not only a costume but paying Marlon Wayans for two movies that he was never in.
Now this.

So who got released that allowed Duke to be Robin on Bat Car show?

The implications being that WB execs are racist. Shocker! I'm surprised they let an Asian Middle Eastern keep Robin for so long.

Damian is white passing so they probably didn't know he was mixed I don't think wB execs read comics they look at sales numbers.

However times have changed since batman Inc. With the scramble to be seen as progressive it's likely it's strategic just like Robin and Superman coming out.

Is he called Duke in that show or just Robin?

He might be another race bent Tim like the Titans TV series Robin.

It could also be that they've figured out that if they can get away with GK having a Tim who could be mistaken for damian.
A WFA Damian who could pass for African American it's possible to have more than one person wear the colours keeping different subsections satisfied.

Marlon's removal from the Burton movie wasn't WB. That was Tim Burton who convinced WB against robin been in his movie. The Director loathes the character. WB were keen in that instance.

[Fergus]

Unlikely. The decision to bring Damian back must have already been made when Tomasi began the Robin Rises arc which took several months to wrap up. Then there was one arc with Damian back alive before the book ended because Snyder gave Bruce amnesia. Then Damian had an entire solo book that ran for a year before it got cut short by Rebirth.

Tec by Tynion had Tim because Tynion being the Tim fanboy that he is wanted to return Tim to the Robin mantle. He made Tim work in Gotham as Bruce's partner and made him wear the Robin colors again. They only slapped a second R on Tim's chest because technically Damian was still Robin and DC probably didn't allow Tynion to go that far.

Tom King had been told to push Duke at the start of his run and only dropped it once DC agreed to let him do his bat cat bat cat, boat street boat street, meow thing.

All Star was by Scott Snyder who has talked about not wanting to use Damian because he doesn't like writing children in dangerous situations because he had a son around Damian's age at the time. Plus he was also trying to push Duke since he created the character.

I don't think it was because the writers weren't told Damian would return in time. DC doesn't plan that far ahead.

I think DC simply happened to pick writers that weren't interested in Damian to write the Rebirth batbooks and editorial was focused more on giving Duke a push since Damian was already an established and popular character while Duke still had problems catching on.

Yes, my the time Morrison left he was already aware that Damian would return. Unlike a lot of writers when it comes to their introductions Morrison was against bringing him back believing that the character f*^ked up DC's continuity.

I know I read Tynion state somewhere that Rebirth Tec was originally supposed to have RedHood and others. He also mentioned that since he started at DC he's been trying to restore Tim to Robin position so he was proud that he got to restore his origin and push him closer to the character he once was.

[the same interview where he mentioned that Savior was supposed to play a bigger role in batman as an antagonist]

Rebirth plans were changed
Duke's role on King's batman was reduced
There were plans for Tim to play a bigger role in the whole returning the 10 years
The Supersons of Tomorrow plot was supposed to be longer and feature the older boys more.
Those are the ones we know about.

I wouldn't call what DC did with Duke in Rebirth pushing. He was pushed during Snyder's batman run but then Snyder seemed to lose interest. His Batman and the Signal was hardly anything.

Honestly the whole Jarro as Robin phase and his lack of interest in doing more with Duke as Signal makes me wonder if his real goal was to introduce the next break out bat/Dc character. Once he found Duke wasn't catching as quickly he lost interest. [snyder did achieve that though with TBWL and the other dark batmen]

Duke had presence in Gotham and was in 2 then 3 title but ultimately his roles in them weren't significant.

Tim was the Robin type character that got the huge push. Even the Supersons concept was undermined by DC who put more effort and resources into YJ Return and Wonder comics.

Damian also had a lot of focus in Rebirth but half of that was negative. Designed to tear the character down. rebirth was also the period when writers came forward to voice that they wanted to use him but were made to jump through hoops or were told he was off limits.

Compared to those two Duke got the least amount of focus.

[Astralabius]

Yes, my the time Morrison left he was already aware that Damian would return. Unlike a lot of writers when it comes to their introductions Morrison was against bringing him back believing that the character f*^ked up DC's continuity.

I know I read Tynion state somewhere that Rebirth Tec was originally supposed to have RedHood and others. He also mentioned that since he started at DC he's been trying to restore Tim to Robin position so he was proud that he got to restore his origin and push him closer to the character he once was.

[the same interview where he mentioned that Savior was supposed to play a bigger role in batman as an antagonist]

Rebirth plans were changed
Duke's role on King's batman was reduced
There were plans for Tim to play a bigger role in the whole returning the 10 years
The Supersons of Tomorrow plot was supposed to be longer and feature the older boys more.
Those are the ones we know about.

I wouldn't call what DC did with Duke in Rebirth pushing. He was pushed during Snyder's batman run but then Snyder seemed to lose interest. His Batman and the Signal was hardly anything.

Honestly the whole Jarro as Robin phase and his lack of interest in doing more with Duke as Signal makes me wonder if his real goal was to introduce the next break out bat/Dc character. Once he found Duke wasn't catching as quickly he lost interest. [snyder did achieve that though with TBWL and the other dark batmen]

Duke had presence in Gotham and was in 2 then 3 title but ultimately his roles in them weren't significant.

Tim was the Robin type character that got the huge push. Even the Supersons concept was undermined by DC who put more effort and resources into YJ Return and Wonder comics.

Damian also had a lot of focus in Rebirth but half of that was negative. Designed to tear the character down. rebirth was also the period when writers came forward to voice that they wanted to use him but were made to jump through hoops or were told he was off limits.

Compared to those two Duke got the least amount of focus.

I called it a push because editorial requested King to put Duke in their best-selling flagship title before dropping it because it wasn't working.

They could have told the bat-writers to use Damian too, but they didn't.

Yes, Tim also got pushed. But of course Tim fans still felt opressed even when DC did everything, including undermining the current Robin Damian in the wortst way, just so that Tim would have something to do.


Negative focus isn't pushing a character. That is character assassination. Giving them lots of bad roles to make that negative view stick with readers.

Somtimes a character being in limbo is better than DC using them, but fucking them up on purpose.

[Konja7]

Damian also had a lot of focus in Rebirth but half of that was negative. Designed to tear the character down. rebirth was also the period when writers came forward to voice that they wanted to use him but were made to jump through hoops or were told he was off limits.

Damian didn't have negative push in Rebirth. I mean, Supersons started in Rebirth and wasn't a negative push (Rebirth Teen Titans wasn't negative either). The negative "push" started after Rebirth with the 5G plans, where Damian would be a villain.

I really doubt this negative "push" was related to Tim (DC likely planned Tim to be called Drake in 5G). This negative focus is more likely due Jon and Jace, since Damian would be a villain for Superman and Batman in 5G.

[Morgoth]

That was the reason. They wanted Jon and Damian rivalry (inspired by Xavier vs Magneto) to be a primary focus in 5G initiative, where Damian was going to be an anti-hero/antagonist. That's why Damian got that treatment, it had nothing to do with Tim, they just thought he was the perfect candidate for some dramatic conflict, which would highlight 5G.

[The Lucky One]

Tim decided he could be called Robin again in Urban Legends. I'm pretty sure this decision is because a Bi Robin will make more noise than Bi Red Robin.

Not that it really matters, but technically I think it was in Young Justice (v2) #18 where it’s confirmed — Jinny Hex (or is it Naomi?) asks if “Drake” is going by Robin again and Superboy jokingly confirms that Batman and Spoiler are making him go by that name again. (Tim’s also back in his classic Robin costume, complete with one “R” instead of two.)

IMG_4512.jpg

[Frontier]

Not that it really matters, but technically I think it was in Young Justice (v2) #18 where it’s confirmed — Jinny Hex (or is it Naomi?) asks if “Drake” is going by Robin again and Superboy jokingly confirms that Batman and Spoiler are making him go by that name again. (Tim’s also back in his classic Robin costume, complete with one “R” instead of two.)

IMG_4512.jpg

I guess this is also the last time we saw them together as a couple.

[Triniking1234]

Pushing new Robin characters when the new one is still around was never going to work out for Snyder.