Pick A Villain For King's Run

[Mel Dyer]

In my opinion, Clea and Cyber have the potential to be the kind of universal, universally feared threat that Brainiac, Loki and Luthor are. Clea because her already existing but barely explored backstory allows for her ascent as an uber-powerful megalomaniac who possesses limitless resources and can wreak havoc across the DC Universe, and Cyber because...duh, imagine the damage she could do through her ability to hijack/control technology. And we all know that the only reason Circe, Dr. Poison, and Ares are not on the same pop culture level as Magneto, Loki, Luthor and Brainiac are is because DC doesn't seem to give a **** about nurturing Wonder Woman supporting characters into becoming multi-book-decimating villains.

Totally agree, over here!

I think some of WW's rogues and supporting characters - the rogues, especially - can be a harder fit for writers to use in the DCU mainstream (Green Lantern, Flash, Superman, etc), ..primarily because of their fantasy genre magic. [It's that blamed magic! Arg!] There are others, like the ones you named, which writers might more easily work into mainstream stories, ..and I would love to see DC's editors work together - sift through the Wonder-rogues and pull out Janus, Cyber, Clea, Adjudicator, Giganta, Atomia, bla'bla - to make that happen. It really can happen, with select Wonder-villains as they are - no re-imagining or tweaking - with a concerted effort and some visionary editors.

That's the development, I'm always crowing about. Development, development, development!

Hey! I want to see that Doctor Cyber/Lex Luthor/Riddler three-four issue, high-stakes nailbiter, as much as you do! We should have had a CRATE of those, by now...2023, ..and it's sad that we don't.

[HestiasHearth]

OMG, Mel...thanks for reminding me of the Adjudicator. What a wasted opportunity he was/still is! Remember how DC took Nekron, an obscure at the time, pretty much forgotten Green Lantern villain from the eighties and turned him into the absolutely terrifying villain at the center of the highly successful, critically acclaimed Blackest Night multi-book event? That's the kind of thing that DC needs to do with Adjudicator or Clea or Cyber. Heck, even Ares is due for his very own Blackest Night. And Circe needs a War of The Gods done right, caramba...

[WonderScott]

OMG, Mel...thanks for reminding me of the Adjudicator. What a wasted opportunity he was/still is! Remember how DC took Nekron, an obscure at the time, pretty much forgotten Green Lantern villain from the eighties and turned him into the absolutely terrifying villain at the center of the highly successful, critically acclaimed Blackest Night multi-book event? That's the kind of thing that DC needs to do with Adjudicator or Clea or Cyber. Heck, even Ares is due for his very own Blackest Night. And Circe needs a War of The Gods done right, caramba...

Adjudicator was judging and destroying worlds before the Anti-Monitor, for the love of Aphrodite. And it was an android IIRC, so who built it? So much to dig into and develop within the Wonder mythos.

[Mel Dyer]

OMG, Mel...thanks for reminding me of the Adjudicator. What a wasted opportunity he was/still is! Remember how DC took Nekron, an obscure at the time, pretty much forgotten Green Lantern villain from the eighties and turned him into the absolutely terrifying villain at the center of the highly successful, critically acclaimed Blackest Night multi-book event? That's the kind of thing that DC needs to do with Adjudicator or Clea or Cyber. Heck, even Ares is due for his very own Blackest Night. And Circe needs a War of The Gods done right, caramba...

WE know Circe, with little or no narrative re-focusing, would have done just as well in Neron's role in that story. She's a witch! She doesn't have to be pigeonholed with Greek mythology junk - all that rot about Hecate and a prophecy - all the time. It'd have been a perfect breakout story for Circe, the Blackest Night thing.

Thank you for reminding me of that.

Adjudicator was judging and destroying worlds before the Anti-Monitor, for the love of Aphrodite. And it was an android IIRC, so who built it? So much to dig into and develop within the Wonder mythos.

I can totally see Wonder Woman teaming up with Green Lantern, Starfire or the Titans against the Adjudicator. That's the kinda story that gets WW out of the garage

[marhawkman]

For you..? That ruins what makes her Clea 'for you', ..and my POV on Clea is different and welcome, because it's an open forum and a community.

As you noted, this is me expressing my opinion. Clearly you disagree. why do you feel I should not also express my opinion?

Dial it back, please.

Same to you.

As I see it, Queen Clea being tied exclusively to Atlantis gives her a smaller narrative range, limits what writers can do with her ..and (most importantly) what kind of stories we can imagine PAYING to see her in. I think Phil Jimenez broadened her range, when he wrote a story about her attacking Skartaris with a new Villainy, Incorporated. That story allowed many of us to see Clea as something more than a sea-story supervillain ..or an Atlantaean. In his hands, she became a universal threat, like Doctor Doom, Darkseid, Kobra or any other. Considering she's only appeared in a few stories, since World War II, I think we have to consider that something is limiting what creators are choosing to do with her...why fans aren't shaking the internet with demands for her use in a WW story.

That's like saying WW's connection to Themiscyra cripples your ability to use her as a character.... or... Aquaman.
What you forgot... Jimenez didn't change who Clea is. He just took her seriously as an Atlantean noble. It wasn't even a major change. OG Clea was in the OG Villainy Inc. Villainy Inc is exactly what Jimenez wrote. Clea, Giganta, Doctor Poison, Jinx, Cyborgirl, and Trinity as a more modern Villainy Inc, not a newly redesigned character

It was a great story AND it used Clea as she originally was..

Pardon me, but I must disagree with you in your desire to see Clea defined more specifically as an Atlantaean. I think anything that limits what writers or fans can imagine for WW's villains is counter-productive to the overall quality of the comic and my enjoyment of it. You have your opinion, and I have a different one...

If you're going that route.... you might as well make up a new character entirely. Why even bother using the name if that's the only thing you carry over from a character few people actually care about? You won't even get name recognition.

In my opinion, Clea and Cyber have the potential to be the kind of universal, universally feared threat that Brainiac, Loki and Luthor are. Clea because her already existing but barely explored backstory allows for her ascent as an uber-powerful megalomaniac who possesses limitless resources and can wreak havoc across the DC Universe, and Cyber because...duh, imagine the damage she could do through her ability to hijack/control technology. And we all know that the only reason Circe, Dr. Poison, and Ares are not on the same pop culture level as Magneto, Loki, Luthor and Brainiac are is because DC doesn't seem to give a **** about nurturing Wonder Woman supporting characters into becoming multi-book-decimating villains.

Yeah, Clea has the resources of an Atlantean kingdom, and that includes Atlantean soldiers with Atlantean weaponry, etc.... not quite the same scale as Darkseid, but quite formidable when you actually take it seriously.

[Nyssane]

If you're going that route.... you might as well make up a new character entirely. Why even bother using the name if that's the only thing you carry over from a character few people actually care about? You won't even get name recognition.

Preach. Not sure why people get so hung up on the Atlantean aspect of Clea. Atlantis is a big ass place (which is also rooted in Greek Myth, mind you) and Clea being from a small female-led nation of Atlantis that is rarely mentioned shouldn't automatically confuse fans into thinking she's an Aquaman villain.

[SiegePerilous02]

The eternally lingering plot thread from Johns' Aquaman was that there wasn't one area of Atlantis, but seven kingdoms. The female statue for one of them was always a hint to me that Clea would be tied into it.

It's easy to keep her Atlantean and primarily a WW villain.

[marhawkman]

The eternally lingering plot thread from Johns' Aquaman was that there wasn't one area of Atlantis, but seven kingdoms. The female statue for one of them was always a hint to me that Clea would be tied into it.

It's easy to keep her Atlantean and primarily a WW villain.

AND arguably two of them have been used in the movies!

'cause Mera is in the movie... and Mera is from XEBEL and not actually Atlantis itself.

[WonderScott]

The eternally lingering plot thread from Johns' Aquaman was that there wasn't one area of Atlantis, but seven kingdoms. The female statue for one of them was always a hint to me that Clea would be tied into it.

It's easy to keep her Atlantean and primarily a WW villain.

I absolutely agree. Clea can be the ruler of Venturia without being wholly subsumed into the Aqua world and remain a primary enemy of Wonder Woman. Clearly, Clea wouldn’t even think much of Aquaman.

[Mel Dyer]

As you noted, this is me expressing my opinion. Clearly you disagree. why do you feel I should not also express my opinion?
Same to you...

You opened your response to my post with "...Nah. NOPE! That ruins what makes her Clea...", dismissing what I expressed as my opinion. I didn't treat anything you've posted here, that way. How is that to treat someone, who's shown you no harm? It was offensive and uncalled for.

So, dial it back, please.

Most of my response to your "Nah, NOPE..." thing supports your sharing a unique and decidedly contrary opinion to mine or anyone else's. I think Clea can be everything you know her to be and more, in a way that broadens what Tom King or any other clever writers can do with her in a story. I think I get where you're coming from in your not wanting to see Queen Clea lose what makes her unique, and I agree with you on some level. Phil Jimenez gave us a Clea, who was everything she was in WWII, while giving her a refreshingly broader narrative berth to threaten the DCU -so I know it can be done. While I welcome more of this treatment of Clea in the future (with Tom King or whoever), ..I don't dismiss your POV, at all.

Perhaps, you were being playful with this dismissive tone of yours. If you meant no offense, ..very well.

[Garrac]

I could vote, but it's probably not going to be Wonder Woman related.

[Dr. Poison]

I could vote, but it's probably not going to be Wonder Woman related.

If you want a non-Wonder Woman villain to appear, just pick "Other" and state your choice in a reply.

[marhawkman]

You opened your response to my post with "...Nah. NOPE! That ruins what makes her Clea...", dismissing what I expressed as my opinion.

I was merely disagreeing with you and lead by unequivocally indicating what my opinion of your opinion was. :Þ

I don't really understand what you mean when you say I should "respect" your opinion.... when all I did was disagree with it.

[Alan2099]

I pick the The Crimson Centipede!

[marhawkman]

Relatively untouched big name WW villain from the original Marston run, pretty much. She, along with her daughter Ptra ("Clea Ptra"), was probably intended to be an evil counterpart version of Hippolyta and Diana.

Jimenez, of course, used her but that's also like 20+ years ago by this point.

Hmmm, yeah if we go with the idea that Hippolyta was WW2 WW, and Diana didn't become WW until modern times then you can have Clea almost be Hippolyta's enemy and Diana gets to fight her as a stand-in.

I would actually like to find out what Aquaman thinks about how Clea keeps getting her hands on the Trident of Poseidon.