How Long Until The Marvel Universe Shutters?

[Spider-Tiger]

Shuiesha is Japan's biggest publisher, they do more than just comics. Merging them with Marvel Comics wouldn't make sense. What would happen in the Japanese market in your scenario? What do you mean, from a comics perspective, when you say "successful Japanese properties to work with"? Work with how?

Shuiesha was just an example, but Marvel also publishes more than just comics.

North American style Superhero comics would be distributed at similar retail spaces as Japanese Manga in the Japanese markets as well. (I believe they already are.)

It would be like having Marvel-North America where the American properties and comics are primarily headquartered. And Marvel-Japan where the Japanese properties and manga are primarily headquartered. But each would be distributed worldwide.

From a comics perspective, Japanese Manga and North American comics could cross promote one another as there are certain audiences that primarily look at one or the other. Additionally, the Japanese publishers would have access to the American IPs to use for a manga style formatting, and vice versa. The North American publishers could also make American style comics about Dragon Ball characters or other large Japanese IPs to entice an audience that might not otherwise be interested in picking up an American style comic book.

This mainly benefits Disney as it would give them an even stronger foothold in international publishing and more properties to work with in television and on film.

[blank]

The behemoths of Western Comics, Marvel Comics and DC are as you put it headed are headed for the iceberg, as the massive film projects from both companies aren't attracting nearly the same amount of interest as they did in the 2010s(although this is much worse for DC than Marvel, at least currently), this means that both of their abilities to attract new readers has greatly diminished. But I don't really think Marvel will ever shutter even if they were to be losing money on every publication, as long as the IPs Marvel owns and occasionally churn out continue to make Disney money. Other than that I doubt they'll ever change reboot their main universe from scratch, no matter how unpopular or complicated it may get if anything they'd just do another Ultimate or something and may switch to only writing for that continuity to help people enter comics or just to have a significantly simplified timeline for their writers.

In maybe the last 4-5 years its become clear that Manga/Manhwa/Manhua have vastly outperformed these behemoths of IP, so the real question becomes why is Manga/Manhwa/Manhua is consistently out performing them? I'd argue that it comes down to a few key factors consistent art and timing, storytelling and control/consistent depictions of characters (although yes they don't equally apply to Manga, Manhwa or Manhua. A lot of the larger properties in Japan and Korea are published on a weekly basis(with some breaks to prepare or to let the artists and maybe writer recuperate), not only are a lot of these titles produced on a weekly basis but the art almost always remains consistent(yes, there is the occasional studio switch in Manhwa, but it is relatively rare for a popular comic to switch) so the properties remain highly consistent in art and in publication. As for storytelling, I find that these a lot of these properties tend to have an actual ending(if they are actually telling a story) unlike the legacy characters of Marvel and DC(maybe not One Piece but most actually have an end goal in mind, as a lot are based on Web or Light Novels). Although yes, there are stories that have been published by Marvel or DC(Watchmen, V for Vendetta, All-Star Superman to name a few personal favourites) that are vastly better written than most stories told in those mediums(Zeb Wells' Run on ASM on the other hand is significantly worse than a lot of these stories, personally I find its poorly written and a bit disjointed for shitty "shock"-based storytelling). This may just be a me thing, but I do greatly appreciate an actual ending rather than constantly repeating the same events(ex. Gotham taken over by a criminal in the last five years, Ben Reilly being evil), a never-ending cycle of torture porn(ex. Peter Parker) and the heavily publicised shitty shock to garner attention(ASM by Wells, need I say more). Generally speaking these titles remain under the creative control of the original author or authors/illustrators but there is some level of editorial oversight or suggestions(I'm not quite exactly sure about strong the editorial is for at least Manga or how it exactly works in the case that it is an adapted work of a Web or Light Novel, so it is much easier to ensure consistent depictions of the characters(so they outright avoid flanderization). Hell a lot of officially translated Manga and Manhwa are now available for free on Webtoon and Shueisha.

[evolutionaryFan]

Is 12 issues enough to depict 365 days of Tony Stark's life? What if a writer has a 5 issue story that spans just three days of Tony Stark's life? Would the next story arc be forced to have a 5 month time skip to accommodate this?

Ah ok... never mind about the floating timeline. By 15 years... I meant 15 years for us. ie: if the first issue is released in 2023, the last issue would be released in 2038. Maybe that's too long. Maybe 5 or 10 years? How long passes in-story doesn't matter.

What happens if a creative team introduces a hit new character halfway through year 14 of this new Marvel Universe?

Then their story ends in 6 months. The idea is that the writers have 15 years to finish the story.

[Lee]

Shuiesha was just an example, Marvel also publishes more than just comics.

What else does Marvel publish? To put things into perspective, Shueisha also publishes pop culture and fashion magazines. They are a significantly bigger publisher than Marvel Comics.

North American style Superhero comics would be distributed at similar retail spaces as Japanese Manga in the Japanese markets as well. (I believe they already are.)

It would be like having Marvel-North America where the American properties and comics are primarily headquartered. And Marvel-Japan where the Japanese properties and manga are primarily headquartered. But each would be distributed worldwide.

From a comics perspective, Japanese Manga and North American comics could cross promote one another as there are certain audiences that primarily look at one or the other. Additionally, the Japanese publishers would have access to the American IPs to use for a manga style formatting, and vice versa. The North American publishers could also make American style comics about Dragon Ball characters or other large Japanese IPs to entice an audience that might not otherwise be interested in picking up an American style comic book.

This mainly benefits Disney as it would give them an even stronger foothold in international publishing and more properties to work with.

This doesn't make sense. If a Japanese manga publisher wants to do something with Spider-Man then they license the character from Marvel. This has happened a few times over the years, recently with Spider-Man: Fake Red, which was cancelled because it underperformed.

American Dragon Ball comics would be missing the point. The audience would reject it. The audience for Dragon Ball wants translations of the original Japanese manga, not a bunch of Americans with no connection to Toriyama's work doing their own versions.

Shueisha and the other major manga publishers wouldn't get anything out of being bought out by Disney and merged with Marvel. Viz is the biggest comic publisher in North America, and is co-owned by Japanese publishers Shueisha and Shogakukan, which are both part of the Hitotsubashi Group. They already have a healthy business in the American market. Similarly, Kodansha already has Kodansha USA.

[Lee]

Ah ok... never mind about the floating timeline. By 15 years... I meant 15 years for us. ie: if the first issue is released in 2023, the last issue would be released in 2038. Maybe that's too long. Maybe 5 or 10 years? How long passes in-story doesn't matter.

Then their story ends in 6 months. The idea is that the writers have 15 years to finish the story.

Going by these rules, if Kamala Khan Ms. Marvel was released halfway through year 14, then it would be cut off at issue 6 and then they'd have to start all over again. So then what happens? Do they immediately do a new origin arc? Do they wait a few years without any new stories about this hot new character?

[Spider-Tiger]

What else does Marvel publish? To put things into perspective, Shueisha also publishes pop culture and fashion magazines. They are a significantly bigger publisher than Marvel Comics.



This doesn't make sense. If a Japanese manga publisher wants to do something with Spider-Man then they license the character from Marvel. This has happened a few times over the years, recently with Spider-Man: Fake Red, which was cancelled because it underperformed.

American Dragon Ball comics would be missing the point. The audience would reject it. The audience for Dragon Ball wants translations of the original Japanese manga, not a bunch of Americans with no connection to Toriyama's work doing their own versions.

Shueisha and the other major manga publishers wouldn't get anything out of being bought out by Disney and merged with Marvel. Viz is the biggest comic publisher in North America, and is co-owned by Japanese publishers Shueisha and Shogakukan, which are both part of the Hitotsubashi Group. They already have a healthy business in the American market. Similarly, Kodansha already has Kodansha USA.

The point is you can have translations of the original material and new material for NA markets as a promotional tool. You could bring in the original creative teams to help create this new material. We don't know this because, as far as you or I know, this has never been attempted. Other than some isolated incidences of licensure of some of the bigger Marvel properties. There's never been a wide integration of Japanese and American media of any sort. At this point in time, the Japanese publishers are not incentivized to promote Marvel stuff even with the ability to license. They are a competitor in the industry.

That's possible. I was talking about how it might benefit Disney to do so, but the Japanese publishers might not be interested in playing ball. Although it would potentially give new opportunities to expand into the American film industry.

So how do you propose that Marvel survives while being consistently outperformed by these Japanese publishers in American markets? Marvel has absolutely no foothold with Japanese manga consumers (an increasingly larger proportion of the comic-book consuming audience while consumers of the American stuff continues to dwindle.) Or are you that convinced that Marvel comic books can and should continue forever in its current state?

[evolutionaryFan]

Going by these rules, if Kamala Khan Ms. Marvel was released halfway through year 14, then it would be cut off at issue 6 and then they'd have to start all over again. So then what happens? Do they immediately do a new origin arc? Do they wait a few years without any new stories about this hot new character?

Why would you create a new character in the last chapter of your final novel? The idea is that the authors are treating this 15 year arc's as self contained stories.

The next 15 year arc will be a separate reality. Spiderman or Ms. Marvel may exist in this new arc... but it's only the same character in a mythological/symbolic sense... not in any literal sense... ie: no attempt to connect the previous 15 year arc to this one.

We get a fresh start every 15 years with no literal history to the characters. They are only connected symbolically... ie: maybe this new Spiderman has a guilt complex like the previous Spiderman... maybe "responsibility" is again a big theme. But the idea is to free the writers from the contraints of previous plot/continuity and start fresh.

[Lee]

Those juggernaut Japanese publishers aren't for sale, and the entertainment landscape would be a worse place if any one of them were bought by Disney. Every major manga series is so closely tied to its creative team that handing them over to American writers and artists would be seen as gauche. American versions of Dragon Ball wouldn't increase sales of Spider-Man or Daredevil.

[Lee]

Why would you create a new character in the last chapter of your final novel?

Marvel publishes dozens of comics each month. Writers are always coming up with new ideas. If a creative team comes up with an idea for a new character but the new Marvel Universe is in Year 13, are they just supposed to sit on that idea for two years? What if the team has moved on by then? What if that character spun out of a story from Year 11 and wouldn't make sense in Year 1 of the next Marvel Universe?

[Spider-Tiger]

Those juggernaut Japanese publishers aren't for sale, and the entertainment landscape would be a worse place if any one of them were bought by Disney. Every major manga series is so closely tied to its creative team that handing them over to American writers and artists would be seen as gauche. American versions of Dragon Ball wouldn't increase sales of Spider-Man or Daredevil.

This is a straw man. I didn't say that they should "hand over" these properties to Americans: as in the original creators wouldn't have access to them.

Out of curiosity, were you against Disney buying Marvel? They don't seem to have altered the creative landscape at Marvel despite ownership.

[evolutionaryFan]

Marvel publishes dozens of comics each month. Writers are always coming up with new ideas. If a creative team comes up with an idea for a new character but the new Marvel Universe is in Year 13, are they just supposed to sit on that idea for two years? What if the team has moved on by then? What if that character spun out of a story from Year 11 and wouldn't make sense in Year 1 of the next Marvel Universe?

Sure, but that's why they have the original continuity.... for writers and readers that just want new characters... new ideas all the time etc. you can just drop in there as they're already doing.

The point of this alternate line (that reboots every 15 years) is that you're writing a self-contained story over 15 years. The focus is on a beginning middle and end... you can put in new ideas, but it has to serve the overall story.

I'm sure there are creative teams that would like write this kind of story.

[clonegeek]

Sure, but that's why they have the original continuity.... for writers and readers that just want new characters... new ideas all the time etc. you can just drop in there as they're already doing.

The point of this alternate line (that reboots every 15 years) is that you're writing a self-contained story over 15 years. The focus is on a beginning middle and end... you can put in new ideas, but it has to serve the overall story.

I'm sure there are creative teams that would like write this kind of story.

Why would any writer/artist give their best ideas for new characters and stuff to the big two these days?

[wleakr]

Not sure how long, but evey other comic publisher will shutdown (including DC) well before Marvel shutters.

Marvel will be the last standing U.S. comic book publisher.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, being owned by Disney kind of shields it. Even DC isn't in stable ownership. Time, AT&T, Discovery - WB and DC have changed hands a few times in recent years.

[clonegeek]

Yeah, being owned by Disney kind of shields it. Even DC isn't in stable ownership. Time, AT&T, Discovery - WB and DC have changed hands a few times in recent years.

Even, then Disney could just out source publishing out to a third party