Bailey Briggs: Spider-Boy Appreciation 2023

[Yvonmukluk]

High Evolutionary debuted in Thor #134 in 1966. Lizard debuted in ASM #6 in 1963. If Madame Monstrosity's tech created him, then she was active before Herbert.

Pretty sure that HE canonically started his career in the 1930s (and gave some tutelage to one Miles Warren). Just because he debuted after the Lizard doesn't mean he wasn't active off-panel before then. It's an odd arguement to make given we're discussing a character who literally debuted in the last issue.

And my point isn't that HE should have been the inspiration for the Lizard. Nobody should be the inspiration for the Lizard! The tragedy of Curt Connor's story is one of (albeit well-intentioned) hubris, saying it was someone else who secretly sabotaged it all along detracts from the themes of the character. Ditto Morbius.

Plus Madame Monstrosity maybe doesn't understand the scientific method? Unless Connors, Morbius, and everyone else was literally burgling her lab (which would raise the question of how nobody knows who she is) how could they have stolen her work unless she wrote it down somewhere it could be found?

Like, Essex wrote his theories down before he full on became Mr. Sinister (and I guess a few other people...) and that's what inspired the HE, and near as I can tell there was no grudge there. And then as mentioned the Jackal learnt from him. If she kept her methods totally secret she officially forfeits literally any right to someone else indepedently figuring out her own theories. Now she's a villain so her having a sense of possession over someone 'copying' her (despite having indepedently arrived at similar conclusions) is something I can see, but again you kind of have this situation where you've undercut the underlying themes of these other characters by wedging her into their backstories.

[clonegeek]

Pretty sure that HE canonically started his career in the 1930s (and gave some tutelage to one Miles Warren). Just because he debuted after the Lizard doesn't mean he wasn't active off-panel before then. It's an odd arguement to make given we're discussing a character who literally debuted in the last issue.

And my point isn't that HE should have been the inspiration for the Lizard. Nobody should be the inspiration for the Lizard! The tragedy of Curt Connor's story is one of (albeit well-intentioned) hubris, saying it was someone else who secretly sabotaged it all along detracts from the themes of the character. Ditto Morbius.

Plus Madame Monstrosity maybe doesn't understand the scientific method? Unless Connors, Morbius, and everyone else was literally burgling her lab (which would raise the question of how nobody knows who she is) how could they have stolen her work unless she wrote it down somewhere it could be found?

Like, Essex wrote his theories down before he full on became Mr. Sinister (and I guess a few other people...) and that's what inspired the HE, and near as I can tell there was no grudge there. And then as mentioned the Jackal learnt from him. If she kept her methods totally secret she officially forfeits literally any right to someone else indepedently figuring out her own theories. Now she's a villain so her having a sense of possession over someone 'copying' her (despite having indepedently arrived at similar conclusions) is something I can see, but again you kind of have this situation where you've undercut the underlying themes of these other characters by wedging her into their backstories.

Feels like Slott is trying to put a square peg into a round hole with this character

[Dan Slott]

Feels like Slott is trying to put a square peg into a round hole with this character

Farley Stillwell, scientist who created the Scorpion, with no firm personal background established.

His brother, Harlan Stillwell, scientist who created the Human Fly, with no firm personal background established-- outside of the fact he was Farley's brother.

Shannon Stillwell, scientist who works on the science behind giving people super powers, with no firm personal background established-- outside of the fact she is the sister to the other two Stillwells.

Is it that big a surprise that they all had a mother who was also a scientist in the same field? And is it that big of a "square peg" to suggest that she was one of the masterminds behind that field of science?

Outside of those connections, the Lizard, Morbius, & Rhino "revelations" are things that she's said over a phone call. We have no idea if this twisted, mad scientist is telling the truth or not about any of that. There's nothing we've seen. No evidence at all. Outside of 4 word balloons from a character we've just met. She could be an unreliable narrator. Or she's telling us some version of the truth-- and maybe someday we'll see those back stories. Or maybe we won't.

It's comics.

Part of the fun is just going with it and seeing where the story takes us.

[Majesty]

Farley Stillwell, scientist who created the Scorpion, with no firm personal background established.

His brother, Harlan Stillwell, scientist who created the Human Fly, with no firm personal background established-- outside of the fact he was Farley's brother.

Shannon Stillwell, scientist who works on the science behind giving people super powers, with no firm personal background established-- outside of the fact she is the sister to the other two Stillwells.

Is it that big a surprise that they all had a mother who was also a scientist in the same field? And is it that big of a "square peg" to suggest that she was one of the masterminds behind that field of science?

Outside of those connections, the Lizard, Morbius, & Rhino "revelations" are things that she's said over a phone call. We have no idea if this twisted, mad scientist is telling the truth or not about any of that. There's nothing we've seen. No evidence at all. Outside of 4 word balloons from a character we've just met. She could be an unreliable narrator. Or she's telling us some version of the truth-- and maybe someday we'll see those back stories. Or maybe we won't.

It's comics.

Part of the fun is just going with it and seeing where the story takes us.

It is true, that part of the beauty of comics is you can bring someone that has no established history and go "This is what they do." and it isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Comics are a world where people get hit by lightning and become time traveling speedsters. A scientist creating a superhero/supervillain/experiments is the least.. least believable.

[Jman27]

Oh Shannon Stillwell was apart of the Regent arc I totally forgot about her and didn’t realize her connection with her brothers on my read of her

[clonegeek]

Farley Stillwell, scientist who created the Scorpion, with no firm personal background established.

His brother, Harlan Stillwell, scientist who created the Human Fly, with no firm personal background established-- outside of the fact he was Farley's brother.

Shannon Stillwell, scientist who works on the science behind giving people super powers, with no firm personal background established-- outside of the fact she is the sister to the other two Stillwells.

Is it that big a surprise that they all had a mother who was also a scientist in the same field? And is it that big of a "square peg" to suggest that she was one of the masterminds behind that field of science?

Outside of those connections, the Lizard, Morbius, & Rhino "revelations" are things that she's said over a phone call. We have no idea if this twisted, mad scientist is telling the truth or not about any of that. There's nothing we've seen. No evidence at all. Outside of 4 word balloons from a character we've just met. She could be an unreliable narrator. Or she's telling us some version of the truth-- and maybe someday we'll see those back stories. Or maybe we won't.

It's comics.

Part of the fun is just going with it and seeing where the story takes us.

So you have no idea what to do with the character

[Jman27]

So you have no idea what to do with the character

what character be specific. And of course he has an idea of where he is taking his characters. He was just giving you an explanation on his thought process for the story you claim he is trying to put a square peg into a round hole.

[Dan Slott]

So you have no idea what to do with the character

Ha! I meant "see where the story takes us" as a reader.

Trust me. There are plans within plans.

[CaptainUniverse]

I just realized that the daughter of this new supervillain is the woman that Mary Jane and Annie took down in Renew Your Vows. I didn't know she had a 616 counterpart.

[Yvonmukluk]

Farley Stillwell, scientist who created the Scorpion, with no firm personal background established.

His brother, Harlan Stillwell, scientist who created the Human Fly, with no firm personal background established-- outside of the fact he was Farley's brother.

Shannon Stillwell, scientist who works on the science behind giving people super powers, with no firm personal background established-- outside of the fact she is the sister to the other two Stillwells.

Is it that big a surprise that they all had a mother who was also a scientist in the same field? And is it that big of a "square peg" to suggest that she was one of the masterminds behind that field of science?

Outside of those connections, the Lizard, Morbius, & Rhino "revelations" are things that she's said over a phone call. We have no idea if this twisted, mad scientist is telling the truth or not about any of that. There's nothing we've seen. No evidence at all. Outside of 4 word balloons from a character we've just met. She could be an unreliable narrator. Or she's telling us some version of the truth-- and maybe someday we'll see those back stories. Or maybe we won't.

It's comics.

Part of the fun is just going with it and seeing where the story takes us.

I mean, I'm with you up to about the point where you suggest she's one of the masterminds of the field, given she's apparently rather reclusive so in that sense it tracks that nobody would have heard of her before. I think it's the implication that all these other characters' origins were tied to her work that's the sticking point for me. Honestly, you did a great job establishing her personality and abilities with what we've seen so far, it just kind of felt like over egging the pudding. I just worry that tying things too closely together can sometimes take away from the uniqueness of existing stories.

[Digifiend]

I just realized that the daughter of this new supervillain is the woman that Mary Jane and Annie took down in Renew Your Vows. I didn't know she had a 616 counterpart.

Debuted in the very first issue after that mini, 2015's ASM #1. And then, as Jman mentioned, appeared in issues 12-15.

[king of hybrids]

Not gonna lie I was expecting them to rope Dr Stasis into his origin

[Mercwmouth12]

How sure are we that the Peter Bailey was talking to in the past wasn't Otto?

[CaptainUniverse]

How sure are we that the Peter Bailey was talking to in the past wasn't Otto?

Because Otto would have been a way bigger jerk.

"Bah! Insolent child! I, the Superior Spider-Man, do not NEED a sidekick!"

[Mercwmouth12]

Because Otto would have been a way bigger jerk.

"Bah! Insolent child! I, the Superior Spider-Man, do not NEED a sidekick!"

Remember we have the unreliable narrator and he's a kid as well. So some of the things told could be not true or made up. Kids will lie to adults