Namor vs. Battle Beast

[Nik Hasta]

The thing for that is that he does this by an undersea collision of extreme effort that actually KO's him. Tidal waves being something that can be caused by earthquakes under the sea. Which is still plate tectonics kind of level of oomph, but...it knocks him the heck out.

If this level of feat is what it takes to hit the same level as Battle Beast, I would personally figure that it means 'through dint of extreme effort Namor can briefly hit at the same level as Battle Beast, but that's all.' Which is not a great situation for Namor.

That's a good way to conceptualise it I think.

Namor can hit Battle Beast hard enough to be competitive but it's not something he can maintain so he loses in the long run.

BB will be pleased he has a semi-decent fight but disappointed when he wins.

[big_adventure]

Mark has quite a decent selection of speedfeats to his name.

A number of them listed in this post from a while back.

Also, I'm not really aware of Namor being much of a blitz guy.



I don't know, Thragg isn't like other Viltrumites. He's in a tier entirely his own given how he routinely overpowers, dismembers and is completely unbothered by high level Viltrumites going for him. Mark needed an ambiguous powerup after being torn in half to even come close to matching him and even then he needed assists to do it. Comparatively, Battle Beast fought him for multiple days after having specifically slit his own stomach open to make it fair and giving up his weapons and it was close match.

Also, Namor's whole "threaten the north-eastern seaboard" thing was in the ocean and therefore him at full hydration. That's not a level of power he's going to be able to reach in the comparatively dry arena.

I'm sorry you misunderstood me...

Mark has tons of speed and it logically scales to other Viltrumites more or less. I never remotely argued the contrary. I just said that the series is FULL of PIS.

So, Battle Beast never showing any appreciable speed against either Mark or Thragg doesn't indicate that he is slow, just like him battling Thragg for days doesn't indicate that he's particularly fast - he lacks any real speed feats, and, specifically in the cadre of the series in question and also generally IRT Rumbles, fighting fast people doesn't transitively argue positively for speed.

As for Thragg's strength, yeah, he's definitely a fat tier up from the other Viltrumites, I just don't think that places him at "fresh" Namor level, and BB is about as equal to Thragg as one can be, given their fight. I wasn't really making an argument for the winner: I pretty much agree with you. BB probably outlasts Namor in the arena, and Namor ought to chonk BB anywhere he has access to water and therefore access to all of his strength. My initial post was all replying to another poster asking about the blitz chances, and I threw in the strength observation after.

[Nik Hasta]

I'm sorry you misunderstood me...

Mark has tons of speed and it logically scales to other Viltrumites more or less. I never remotely argued the contrary. I just said that the series is FULL of PIS.

So, Battle Beast never showing any appreciable speed against either Mark or Thragg doesn't indicate that he is slow, just like him battling Thragg for days doesn't indicate that he's particularly fast - he lacks any real speed feats, and, specifically in the cadre of the series in question and also generally IRT Rumbles, fighting fast people doesn't transitively argue positively for speed.

I wouldn't say it's notably more full of PIS than other mainstream comics. I get what you mean though; ABC logic doesn't apply feat for feat but I would say there's some wiggle room in this case. Viltrumites have a standardised set of abilities, much like Kryptonians, which does include enhanced speed. Thragg is the apex of Viltrumite abilities, he is the strongest and fastest by some measure, and he went toe-to-toe with Battle Beast for multiple days being presented as broadly equal to each other in combat.

The logic of that would have to be, if we assume that Thragg was fighting at full speed, BB should have some measure of similarly enhanced speed otherwise them being presented as equals doesn't really make sense. The issue is, Battle Beast is basically brawler and doesn't really do dodging and has minimal feats on top of that - having like what... four appearances across 130+ comics? So there's no corroboration outside of his one big feat.

So, it's a little hard to say. He should be quick, quicker than base Mark at the very least, but you'd have a hard time proving it beyond him fighting Thragg.

Though I did recall a fun moment where Mark kind of addresses him getting hit by slow people as outlined on this page:



He has to slow down to not murder people, so it's nice to see the series at least try to address it.

As for Thragg's strength, yeah, he's definitely a fat tier up from the other Viltrumites, I just don't think that places him at "fresh" Namor level, and BB is about as equal to Thragg as one can be, given their fight. I wasn't really making an argument for the winner: I pretty much agree with you. BB probably outlasts Namor in the arena, and Namor ought to chonk BB anywhere he has access to water and therefore access to all of his strength. My initial post was all replying to another poster asking about the blitz chances, and I threw in the strength observation after.

I quite understand, my thoughts on the strength thing were more a manifestation of my general misgivings around Namor's undersea quake feat being normal. As I noted earlier, feels kind SMvsFL-y to me given that he's not replicated it or come anywhere near it in near 50+ years of comics.

[Jcogginsa]

Anyone know any other strength feats in the big boy leagues for Namor?

This is probably an outlier, but he made thanos bleed with a punch (that also broke every bone in Namor's hand. And then Thanos **** stomped Namor afterward)

[The Drunkard Kid]

Here's the scene Sharp was talking about, in all it's ridiculous glory:

[Sharpandpointies]

That's the one, thanks Kid!

Look at the dumb on Logan's face when he gets Imperious Wrecked.

It's also fascinating that Namor isn't even bleeding. O_o I have questions for the artist.

[big_adventure]

I wouldn't say it's notably more full of PIS than other mainstream comics. I get what you mean though; ABC logic doesn't apply feat for feat but I would say there's some wiggle room in this case. Viltrumites have a standardised set of abilities, much like Kryptonians, which does include enhanced speed. Thragg is the apex of Viltrumite abilities, he is the strongest and fastest by some measure, and he went toe-to-toe with Battle Beast for multiple days being presented as broadly equal to each other in combat.

The logic of that would have to be, if we assume that Thragg was fighting at full speed, BB should have some measure of similarly enhanced speed otherwise them being presented as equals doesn't really make sense. The issue is, Battle Beast is basically brawler and doesn't really do dodging and has minimal feats on top of that - having like what... four appearances across 130+ comics? So there's no corroboration outside of his one big feat.

So, it's a little hard to say. He should be quick, quicker than base Mark at the very least, but you'd have a hard time proving it beyond him fighting Thragg.

Though I did recall a fun moment where Mark kind of addresses him getting hit by slow people as outlined on this page:



He has to slow down to not murder people, so it's nice to see the series at least try to address it.



I quite understand, my thoughts on the strength thing were more a manifestation of my general misgivings around Namor's undersea quake feat being normal. As I noted earlier, feels kind SMvsFL-y to me given that he's not replicated it or come anywhere near it in near 50+ years of comics.

All entirely fair, and I agree that Invincible, despite a "usual" amount of PIS, does a good enough job with touches like that to excuse a little of it.

We agree, which is good.

[big_adventure]

That's the one, thanks Kid!

Look at the dumb on Logan's face when he gets Imperious Wrecked.

It's also fascinating that Namor isn't even bleeding. O_o I have questions for the artist.

Sharp, he said it right in the blurb, Logan missed all of the vital organs, ergo no blood. I mean, duuuuuuuh.

[Sharpandpointies]

Clearly missing Namor's vital organs - which apparently aren't in his chest* - means 'Namor does not bleed'!

^_^

* In fairness, we all know where Namor's truly vital organs are.

[Len Ikari145]

Here's the scene Sharp was talking about, in all it's ridiculous glory:

Why? Why was his face drawn like that? The sheer amount of derp in his expression is so unfathomably stupid, you'd think Namor's fist was laced with rhino tranqs.

[Sharpandpointies]

Why? Why was his face drawn like that? The sheer amount of derp in his expression is so unfathomably stupid, you'd think Namor's fist was laced with rhino tranqs.

Like I said, hilarity. ^_^

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Clearly missing Namor's vital organs - which apparently aren't in his chest* - means 'Namor does not bleed'!

^_^

* In fairness, we all know where Namor's truly vital organs are.

There's only one organ Namor cares about anyway.