Rey Palpatine vs Xena

[Godzilla2099]

Holy Hell that is some bad movie. I skipped the third part of the Sequel Trilogy because I found the first two parts to be dumpster fires.

Why did Crylo Ren fly the TIE Interceptor at her?? Wouldn't it make more sense to shoot her...from the sky? (We all know the real reason for this scene)

Practically no training but she can go all Vader/Starkiller and pull starships down and use force lightening? (Isn't that particular talent Darkside Exclusive?)

Also looks like the rest of the characters are still reduced to tokens.

[MichaelC]

Making the force this powerful retroactively makes older movies stupid. Why didn't Vader stop the ship with the death star plans from escaping? He just stands there, implying that grabbing a ship is beyond him. Yoda slowly and with great concentration in a quiet non-combat situation lifting Luke's ship is treated as huge deal. So Rey utterly dwarfs Yoda, able to perform a much greater feat quickly in a stressful combat situation?

[Username taken]

Holy Hell that is some bad movie. I skipped the third part of the Sequel Trilogy because I found the first two parts to be dumpster fires.

Why did Crylo Ren fly the TIE Interceptor at her?? Wouldn't it make more sense to shoot her...from the sky? (We all know the real reason for this scene)

Practically no training but she can go all Vader/Starkiller and pull starships down and use force lightening? (Isn't that particular talent Darkside Exclusive?)

Also looks like the rest of the characters are still reduced to tokens.

To be fair, she had received some training by TROS.

She was doing a little bit of double-dipping with the force at this point (i.e both light side and dark side). She wasn't helped by having Palpatine DNA (now that is a stupid plot point).

As for the rest...I got nothing, the movie wasn't good.

[Username taken]

Making the force this powerful retroactively makes older movies stupid. Why didn't Vader stop the ship with the death star plans from escaping? He just stands there, implying that grabbing a ship is beyond him. Yoda slowly and with great concentration in a quiet non-combat situation lifting Luke's ship is treated as huge deal. So Rey utterly dwarfs Yoda, able to perform a much greater feat quickly in a stressful combat situation?

Vader did stop a ship in the Obi-Wan tv series.

As for why he didn't do it before, I have no idea. Maybe he was tired?

[master of read]

Making the force this powerful retroactively makes older movies stupid. Why didn't Vader stop the ship with the death star plans from escaping? He just stands there, implying that grabbing a ship is beyond him. Yoda slowly and with great concentration in a quiet non-combat situation lifting Luke's ship is treated as huge deal. So Rey utterly dwarfs Yoda, able to perform a much greater feat quickly in a stressful combat situation?

just putting this here.

To be fair, she had received some training by TROS.

She was doing a little bit of double-dipping with the force at this point (i.e both light side and dark side). She wasn't helped by having Palpatine DNA (now that is a stupid plot point).

As for the rest...I got nothing, the movie wasn't good.

she recieved training from a woman who was only revealed to have had training with her brother in that same movie. she stopped her training because she had a force vision of her son dying. so make of that what you will.

[The Drunkard Kid]

just putting this here.



she recieved training from a woman who was only revealed to have had training with her brother in that same movie. she stopped her training because she had a force vision of her son dying. so make of that what you will.

I mean, she trained under both Luke and Leia (both of whom were retired for probably significantly less time than Yoda and Obi Wan were when they trained Luke), probably at least as long as Luke trained before he became able to defeat Vader. And her Palpatine genes, while disappointing from a narrative point of view, is probably significantly less super special awesome than the arguable even more disappointing from a narrative point of view Anakin/Luke/Leia/Ben being descended directly from the Force plot point.

Heck, while the third movie is definitely the worst in the new trilogy, it does make it clear that she is significantly worse than Ben/Ren in lightsaber dueling when the latter isn't severely injured and/or having a major emotional breakdown.

[master of read]

I mean, she trained under both Luke and Leia (both of whom were retired for probably significantly less time than Yoda and Obi Wan were when they trained Luke), probably at least as long as Luke trained before he became able to defeat Vader. And her Palpatine genes, while disappointing from a narrative point of view, is probably significantly less super special awesome than the arguable even more disappointing from a narrative point of view Anakin/Luke/Leia/Ben being descended directly from the Force plot point.

Heck, while the third movie is definitely the worst in the new trilogy, it does make it clear that she is significantly worse than Ben/Ren in lightsaber dueling when the latter isn't severely injured and/or having a major emotional breakdown.

i wouldn't even call what she did with luke "training". sure, he taught her some stuff about the force but he was very very reluctant on training her. at least with luke, he was somewhat aware of the force before obi-wan trained him a little and yoda did train him far more than luke did with rey. so she got trained by one person who didn't want to train her and another who stopped her training half way through. so rey got more powers with way less training.

[Godzilla2099]

just putting this here.



she recieved training from a woman who was only revealed to have had training with her brother in that same movie. she stopped her training because she had a force vision of her son dying. so make of that what you will.

"Anakin! The Planet is the Force! Use it!" This was the chosen one who spent more than half his life training, close to his prime, and had a huge mega phone to give him a boost in power. I loved this episode because it gave us a glimpse of Anakin's True Potential. Technically the right decision for Anakin was that he should have stayed and kept the children in check. But he didn't and became Vader who is only a fraction of that power. Without arms or legs and his body is in constant pain physically/mentally/emotionally. Not only did he have to adapt to a new living style but combat too. From Speed and Agility, to Strength and Fear.

As for Rey, I didn't see the third part of the sequel. Not sure how much time passed between TLJ and TROS. Part one had her do all that stuff all I mentioned previously minutes after hearing the force is real and part two she's beating up royal guards, saving Kylo Ren's Life, and moving a mountain after spending a day or two with Luke. After seeing that clip and her fight with the Emperor...yeah, I'm pretty sure I won't be a fan of part 3

Making the force this powerful retroactively makes older movies stupid. Why didn't Vader stop the ship with the death star plans from escaping? He just stands there, implying that grabbing a ship is beyond him. Yoda slowly and with great concentration in a quiet non-combat situation lifting Luke's ship is treated as huge deal. So Rey utterly dwarfs Yoda, able to perform a much greater feat quickly in a stressful combat situation?

Can't say I disagree, but this 44 year old kid thinks this makes the newer movies looks stupid.

[The Drunkard Kid]

i wouldn't even call what she did with luke "training". sure, he taught her some stuff about the force but he was very very reluctant on training her. at least with luke, he was somewhat aware of the force before obi-wan trained him a little and yoda did train him far more than luke did with rey. so she got trained by one person who didn't want to train her and another who stopped her training half way through. so rey got more powers with way less training.

I'm pretty sure Luke knew nothing of the Force before Obi-Wan have him a quick rundown and basic training session a few hours before his death. And IIRC, Luke was unwilling to train her at the start, but changed his tune on that front very hard after she stumbled upon that Dark Side cave thing and started giving her more in depth training from that point on (though looking it up, it might have only been for 3 lessons, but then she trained under Leia for a year using proper equipment, which is significantly longer than his weeks/month in a swamp with Yoda).

Not to mention that Rey probably had way more actual combat experience before she started training then Luke did, considering that she was using a staff to fight off people while living as a scavenger for years, so she's have less need to build up her physical conditioning then Luke would.

[master of read]

"Anakin! The Planet is the Force! Use it!" This was the chosen one who spent more than half his life training, close to his prime, and had a huge mega phone to give him a boost in power. I loved this episode because it gave us a glimpse of Anakin's True Potential. Technically the right decision for Anakin was that he should have stayed and kept the children in check. But he didn't and became Vader who is only a fraction of that power. Without arms or legs and his body is in constant pain physically/mentally/emotionally. Not only did he have to adapt to a new living style but combat too. From Speed and Agility, to Strength and Fear.

As for Rey, I didn't see the third part of the sequel. Not sure how much time passed between TLJ and TROS. Part one had her do all that stuff all I mentioned previously minutes after hearing the force is real and part two she's beating up royal guards, saving Kylo Ren's Life, and moving a mountain after spending a day or two with Luke. After seeing that clip and her fight with the Emperor...yeah, I'm pretty sure I won't be a fan of part 3



Can't say I disagree, but this 44 year old kid thinks this makes the newer movies looks stupid.

i think it was about a year between TLJ and TROS but don't quote me.

its really fascinating comparing both anakin and luke's rise to rey's.

TPM: anakin is aware of the force and jedi, shown to have force sensitivity to allow him to be a pod racer, something no human could do and that point and began his training.

AOTC: had nearly a decade as the padawan of a talented jedi, had shotty but competent duelist (to be fair, saber to saber combat was being phased out and most of the order weren't up to snuff on their saber skills) and was having force visions of the future. faces off against a sith master and loses, losing a arm in the process.

ROTS: had fought on the front line of a galactic civil war, became a good commander, been master to his own padawan, became good enough as a duelist to fight and kill the sith lord who cut off his arm and the rest of history.

ANH: luke knew about the force from stories of his jedi father and his friendship with a jedi master, trained a bit with him, was sensitive in the force to be a great pilot and can hear the voice of obi-wan.

ESB: became a rebel commander and strong enough in the force to move his light saber, could see ben's force ghost, gets trained by the grandmaster of the old jedi order, gets force visions and can already enhance his physical stats with the force. challenges sith master but loses, losing his arm in the process. and could communicate with leia over long distances.

TROJ: becomes full on jedi master after finishing his training with yoda, can use the mindtrick, can become aware of his father's presence on the new death star and knew vader could feel him as well, thus endangering the mission, could feel the conflict of emotions in him and defeated him in saber combat.

TFA: has no clue about the force other than just stories and yet she could reverse a mindtrick from a veteran force user, use the same mindtrick to get herself out of capture, and then defeats said force user in saber combat without zero training in saber combat and force useage.

TLJ: recieve little to no training from jedi master but could over power him in combat, defeating the guards in that..........ahem......"fight scene", match kylo ren in straight up force combat and moving a crap ton of rocks with no effort or straining what so ever.

ROS: gets a year of training from a woman who previously was never hinted at having any real training in the force and only stopped half way through because of a vision, pulls of powers that not even the grandmaster of the jedi order had, and defeated the greatest sith lord ever. (palp's wanted her to kill him so she defeats him by............killing him)

[master of read]

I'm pretty sure Luke knew nothing of the Force before Obi-Wan have him a quick rundown and basic training session a few hours before his death. And IIRC, Luke was unwilling to train her at the start, but changed his tune on that front very hard after she stumbled upon that Dark Side cave thing and started giving her more in depth training from that point on (though looking it up, it might have only been for 3 lessons, but then she trained under Leia for a year using proper equipment, which is significantly longer than his weeks/month in a swamp with Yoda).

Not to mention that Rey probably had way more actual combat experience before she started training then Luke did, considering that she was using a staff to fight off people while living as a scavenger for years, so she's have less need to build up her physical conditioning then Luke would.

luke knew his father was a jedi and a pilot, persumably from obiwan since owen didn't seem to keen on luke learning about his father, so he was aware of the force being a thing. and i wouldnt call what luke did with her "training". he taught how to tap into the force but nothing more beyond that. at least obi-wan gave luke a basic exercise used in the temple while on the falcon.

and as i said before, leia was only half trained herself, seeing as how she stopped training with luke after getting that vision of kylo. so rey was getting training from a woman who wasn't fully trained herself and outside of that mary poppins moment, shown no real feats for being someone skilled enough in the force to qualify her teaching someone.

[Nik Hasta]

Making the force this powerful retroactively makes older movies stupid. Why didn't Vader stop the ship with the death star plans from escaping? He just stands there, implying that grabbing a ship is beyond him. Yoda slowly and with great concentration in a quiet non-combat situation lifting Luke's ship is treated as huge deal. So Rey utterly dwarfs Yoda, able to perform a much greater feat quickly in a stressful combat situation?

I think you can kind of attribute a lot of the power creep for Jedi to the success of The Force Unleashed franchise.

Those games came out between the prequels and the new trilogy, 2008 and 2010 respectively, and were both very successful. The first one sold around 10 million units lifetime and the second one around 7 million. That's two very successful games and I remember at the time the excitement around Starkiller's powers and how it gave players an opportunity to do wildly high level Jedi stuff at will.

Yes, there had been similar feats of scale in comics and the novels, the 03 Clone Wars cartoon hinted at similar acts of scale as well, but I don't think any of those bits of media had nearly the mainstream reach that The Force Unleashed did.

So, when they come to make a new trilogy, they have trailers like this in the public consciousness:



And that will influence the idea of what "strong Jedi" should be capable of. Whatever else you want to say about her, Rey was written to be an incredibly powerful Force user and to be able to touch both the light and dark sides of the Force.

Ergo, she gets to mess around with starships as well, Palpatine does as well. Because of these games, I feel like everyone gets a bit of a buff to their Force abilities. Luke does Force projection across multiple star systems, Kylo Ren has enough speed, power and precision to stop and freeze a blaster bolt in mid-air in his introduction in Force Awakens.

I feel like the Force definitely got a bit of a general buff in the new trilogy because audiences and creators looked at The Force Unleashed and were like "Oh, okay, that's possible? Sick, let's do that,"

[Radioactive Zombie]

Is there anything in Star Wars EU that says Jedi have trouble with using 'real' swords? There's also the fact Rey has Force-thrown her sword at least once.

[Sharpandpointies]

Is there anything in Star Wars EU that says Jedi have trouble with using 'real' swords?

When a sword and a lightsaber are two very different weapons, the necessity is to prove that Rey has the skill with a sword (as she never uses one), not to prove that she should have trouble with using them.

[Len Ikari145]

I think you can kind of attribute a lot of the power creep for Jedi to the success of The Force Unleashed franchise.

Those games came out between the prequels and the new trilogy, 2008 and 2010 respectively, and were both very successful. The first one sold around 10 million units lifetime and the second one around 7 million. That's two very successful games and I remember at the time the excitement around Starkiller's powers and how it gave players an opportunity to do wildly high level Jedi stuff at will.

Yes, there had been similar feats of scale in comics and the novels, the 03 Clone Wars cartoon hinted at similar acts of scale as well, but I don't think any of those bits of media had nearly the mainstream reach that The Force Unleashed did.

So, when they come to make a new trilogy, they have trailers like this in the public consciousness:



And that will influence the idea of what "strong Jedi" should be capable of. Whatever else you want to say about her, Rey was written to be an incredibly powerful Force user and to be able to touch both the light and dark sides of the Force.

Ergo, she gets to mess around with starships as well, Palpatine does as well. Because of these games, I feel like everyone gets a bit of a buff to their Force abilities. Luke does Force projection across multiple star systems, Kylo Ren has enough speed, power and precision to stop and freeze a blaster bolt in mid-air in his introduction in Force Awakens.

I feel like the Force definitely got a bit of a general buff in the new trilogy because audiences and creators looked at The Force Unleashed and were like "Oh, okay, that's possible? Sick, let's do that,"

I wouldn't put it all on the Force Unleashed. In the OG EU, you had people like Palpatine causing "Force Storms" that engulfed entire planets and Jedi and Sith alike using the Force to move at FTL or around that speed, etc. Basically, Jedi/Sith were psychic, laser sword-wielding DBZ characters in the old EU and the new canon seems to be trying to emulate those power levels to a smaller extent.