Editorial needs to change current direction ASAP
Editorial is doing fine work and no change is needed.
Editorial is making questionable decisions but they aren't all bad
Fire Editorial.
I honestly don't think having JRJR as an artist in the last ten years is really a sign of not wanting to tank the book, considering how sloppy and inhuman his art has looked in the Spider-Man and in his other work(I think at one point I dropped Action Comics or Superman, at least in part because he was the artist for it and it looked extremely bad) but again art is subjective, don't really know all that much about Ed McGuinness as an artist but his work does look to be of fairly high quality(also I don't that they were using bad artists for X-Men for years despite tanking their narrative). Art at least to me generally shouldn't be the main draw to a comic, unless you're a collector who just wants the all of the different covers.
We don't really hype up art on the threads, but we should!
In gamer parlance, JRJR\McGuiness is an AAA artistic team. Both have launched big, ambitions, successful books: JRJR did ASM with JMS\Avengers with Bendis\Cap with Remender. He drew on AvX and World War Hulk. He's a draw, a fan fave. McGuinness launched Hulk with Loeb and Avengers with Aaron. Behemoth books, all.
An artist is an asset in many ways. A good artist doubly so. I would hazard to guess that the paycheck that JRJR\McGuiness get per issue exceeds that of a relative Big 2 newcomer, like Carlos Gomez. They cost more, so in return the book should sell more to offset the spending.
Simply put, a badly selling book would not keep JRJR\McGuiness. If they were bleeding money, Marvel would move both to different books to 1) have a new, cheaper artist to finish out the story 2) have JRJR\McGuiness do other books to boost their sales.
As of now, not only are JRJR\McGuiness staying put, but the fill-in guys they're getting are out of this world. Nick Dragotta! Terry Dodson! Kaare Andrews! Patrick Gleason?!! Primo guys.
we should worry about ASM sales when we start getting artists whose names we don't recognize
Plus the argument wasn't that the book is failing, but that they are intentionally tanking the book because of Sony.
I was talking about Wells and Lowe. There are some claims about their morals in particular.
Anything that marketing decided is not on them.
As for a lack of empathy for Kamala, I just don't get the idea that it's more moral to depict her death in a situation where she's with loved ones. Real people sometimes die alone. For me, I don't get the idea that this should be sanitized.
Sincerely,
Thomas Mets
"The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe
"Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin
"You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker
No one is claiming anything about their morals. It's possible for a piece of work to be problematic and in poor taste, and for the people behind it to be "good guys" in real life.
Them and Cebulski were the ones who teased MJ's death and marketed it as an anniversary celebration of Gwen's fridging. That wasn't some entity outside of the Spider-Office.Anything that marketing decided is not on them.
Not "more moral". Less problematic and callous.As for a lack of empathy for Kamala, I just don't get the idea that it's more moral to depict her death in a situation where she's with loved ones. Real people sometimes die alone. For me, I don't get the idea that this should be sanitized.
Superhero deaths when done right should be celebratory of who the character is and of their mythos. That's how they usually are for the white dudes that "die" (and later come back). They're not used as plot devices either.
And where are we today? With one of the most anti-brand status quos in the medium that's pretty darn irrelevant to the franchi.
Irrelevant; whatever the context, Ms. Marvel was fridged. Even if they bring her back or were planning to overhaul the character, that doesn't change the circumstances of the original story or erase the sexism and/or racism the story unfortunately deals in.
Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
(All-New Wolverine #4)
It would be so cool. I think the way McGuiness excels at wacky, cartoon-y visuals would really make a Spider-Man cartoon (or any cartoon for that matter) really stand out amongst its peers. I don't know if Wells' run is the only time McGuiness has done Spider-Man art like this. I couldn't find anything else.
Last edited by CaptainUniverse; 07-09-2023 at 05:24 PM.
"The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe
"Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin
"You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker
One hundred years down the line and Spider-Man’s public domain. Which could majorly change the equation.
American comics dying as an industry while their IPs carry on is more likely than their IPs passing into public domain; and that’s where the current run being at the top of a shrinking industry becomes important in some ways and totally negligible in others.
Spider-Man sold well for the market before OMD happened and even well before the first of editorials numerous plots to get rid of the wedding, and Spider-Man has sold well for the market after OMD. Top selling “headliner” books have some elasticity for their quality and content, but are also nearly impervious in the long run in comparison to other market books… but are also helpless before market attrition.
Meanwhile, it seems like Batman and Superman are still going strong even though they’ve both been progressed to early 40’s fatherhood at minimum - and both have added more positively to their personal character legacies because of that (since Superman now has a show featuring him doing that and Batman has an upcoming movie featuring that)
It’s never really been more than personal taste that argues Peter can’t be married or started a family; there’s never been any evidence that married heroes having kids have actually hurt comic sales.
Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?
I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP
Back in the 90s, when I remember hearing the first murmurs about writers wanting the marriage gone, the complaint was simply that married Peter was more difficult to write stories for. All these other arguments came later.
That original complaint is probably the real reason beyond all the buttressing.