What is the appeal of Superior Spider-Man?

[CaptainUniverse]

I see people talking about how great it is, how awesome it is and frankly, I just don't see it. The costume is cool but overall the actual saga is a longer version of that shitty Ultimate Spider-Man arc where Wolverine tried to rape Mary Jane but with Otto in the driver's seat. I don't see what is so appealing about this story that goes out of its way to demean not just Mary Jane but Felicia as well but also tout Otto Octavius as the "better" Spider-Man than Peter. I don't get it.

[Garlador]

I once summed it up as “it’s like Mass Effect players who already played as Paragon wanting to experience a Renegade run.”

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I wouldn't say it has mass appeal. It has more like a cult following.

I think some fans and editors at Marvel put Superior on a pedestal because it was the first time since pre-OMD when sales went up a bit and we had a proactive protagonist again (albeit it was Otto in Peter's body because Slott is more fond of Otto).

The sales weren't amazing or on par with pre-OMD, and the character stuff wasn't anywhere as good as the best of pre-OMD, but it was a step up at that time. I feel like that skewed a lot of people's views of it.

Also, the gimmick is kinda interesting, at least conceptually.

[Mister Mets]

It's a cover song with the trappings of Spider-Man in a different voice.

And it gets pretty clear that Ock is not the superior Spider-Man. That's something he comes to realize.

[CaptainUniverse]

It's a cover song with the trappings of Spider-Man in a different voice.

And it gets pretty clear that Ock is not the superior Spider-Man. That's something he comes to realize.

Wait...didn't Kraven's Last Hunt have plot elements similar to Superior in it? A villain running around trying to be a better Spider-Man than Spider-Man who realizes that he can never be the better Spider-Man?

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

I agree that some if the MJ stuff in the first couple is a bit off putting but that's over pretty quick and from there it's a lot of fun. The art is great, Slott's writing is at its peak, and the escalation over the course of the 30 issue run really works. The moment at the end when Peter returns is genuinely hype and well earned.

I remember a friend first telling me about the concept of Superior when it was first announced and replying "wow, that sounds so dumb" but it really won me over to the point where I was bummed out when Otto returned to classic Dr Octopus.

Now that we're a few years removed from it I'd genuinely recommend revisiting it with an open mind because I think there's a lot of great stuff in there about 90% of it holds up really well. It's easily the highlight of post-OMD Spidey for me.

I once summed it up as “it’s like Mass Effect players who already played as Paragon wanting to experience a Renegade run.”

This is a great way to put it!

[Vegan]

Can’t get over the extremely terrible implied Doc Ock jacks off scene. If you basically come out of the gate with that scene, start over and try again

[Alan2099]

Wait...didn't Kraven's Last Hunt have plot elements similar to Superior in it? A villain running around trying to be a better Spider-Man than Spider-Man who realizes that he can never be the better Spider-Man?

If you want to break the plot down to a single sentence, then sure.

The foundations and executions of the story couldn't be more different.

I think the big appeal in Superior Spider-man is that it gives us a deeper look into how Otto thinks than we'd ever got before. It also drives home the ideas that it's Peter himself that makes Spider-man important. While Otto may do things more efficiently (at times) he's ego and general lack of basic human decency shows us that even if he's given everything he needs to succeed he's still not really going to be a better person, and watch that fall makes for fascinating reading.

[CaptainUniverse]

If you want to break the plot down to a single sentence, then sure.

The foundations and executions of the story couldn't be more different.

I think the big appeal in Superior Spider-man is that it gives us a deeper look into how Otto thinks than we'd ever got before. It also drives home the ideas that it's Peter himself that makes Spider-man important. While Otto may do things more efficiently (at times) he's ego and general lack of basic human decency shows us that even if he's given everything he needs to succeed he's still not really going to be a better person, and watch that fall makes for fascinating reading.

I think I can see the appeal in wanting to explore how a villain thinks and what his motivations for doing what he is doing are.

Can’t get over the extremely terrible implied Doc Ock jacks off scene. If you basically come out of the gate with that scene, start over and try again

Yeah, no kidding.

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

I think I can see the appeal in wanting to explore how a villain thinks and what his motivations for doing what he is doing are.

Otto and Kraven are also very different people with different approaches. Not to mention that Superior lasts long enough to really dive into how Otto reacts to various parts of Spidey's world.

Can’t get over the extremely terrible implied Doc Ock jacks off scene. If you basically come out of the gate with that scene, start over and try again

I think you kind of have to approach it like the clone saga where IMO it's worth overlooking a few awful moments in that saga for some otherwise great stories. Everyone's mileage varies on this but I believe the good stuff in Superior makes up for it.

[Jman27]

I guess for me it was seeing how Otto was actually trying his best to become spiderman while Peter was just commenting on everything that he actually did

[Lee]

Wait...didn't Kraven's Last Hunt have plot elements similar to Superior in it? A villain running around trying to be a better Spider-Man than Spider-Man who realizes that he can never be the better Spider-Man?

Kraven went to his grave thinking he was the better Spider-Man.

[Vegan]

I think you kind of have to approach it like the clone saga where IMO it's worth overlooking a few awful moments in that saga for some otherwise great stories. Everyone's mileage varies on this but I believe the good stuff in Superior makes up for it.

To me that comparison doesn't really work, because the worst moments of the clone saga are just bad writing, whereas I find the aforementioned Superior Spider-man scene to be morally repugnant and embarrassing as a comic fan.

I also just was not impressed with what I read of the rest of the series. I find the thesis of the series, that being that Peter is the actual superior Spider-Man, to fall on its face when Peter is just given the reigns back by Ock rather than taking them back, the fact that he lets a depowered Norman Osborn slip out of his grasp because he had a spider sense headache for a panel, and the fact that the next volume of ASM starring him mostly involved him being utterly ineffective at being a hero for most of its page time.

[Spider-Tiger]

Superior Spider-man is great conceptually: having the villain replace the hero for an entire run. It’s an excellent gimmick, and perhaps the best gimmick to come out of the last 15 years. Story wise, there are some similarities to Kraven’s Last Hunt. Personally, I found the execution of Superior to be a bit haphazard and lacking. Certain characters and themes are just not developed all that well, and certain elements are off-putting. Slott is good at concept and plot, but he doesn’t excel at psychology and pathos.

There’s a certain level of intimacy and claustrophobia to Kraven’s Last Hunt (which is apropos for a story where the hero is quite literally buried alive) and this allows JMD to really dig deep into the psychology of Kraven, Mary Jane, and Peter. The stakes feel higher coming off the heels of the wedding, tonally it’s more consistent than Superior, and the brevity of the story (as opposed to being dragged out like Superior) allows it to get its point across much clearer. And so, for me, it’s the superior story.

[godisawesome]

Count me as another person who thinks it’s a strong but mildly tricky conceptual idea for a story - a bit like AzBats at DC, or the Reign of Superman or The Return of Barry Allen - where doing it even somewhat competently creates a cool examination of why the “real” hero works so well, and for a good fight of *some* kind with a good antagonist.

In fact, I’d argue that Superior Spider-Man is probably the best way to bring Doc Ock into the MCU without tripping in Alfred Molina’s huge shadow, and to further line up “Dark Avenger” type characters.