Current Spider-Man Sales

[CrimsonEchidna]

Not so sure about that.

If they were doing MJ and Peter justice in the 616 right now, I'd be buying two Spider-Man books right now instead of just one. The idea that audiences would only accept one at a time is ridiculous. The reality is far more satisfying:

Going to go out on a limb, speaking from personal experience here, is the problem is the promise of a single Peter Parker finally being free to actual pursue other relationships really haven't be delivered.

I'd be with you if Amazing tried to actually offer an alternative relationship for Peter. We're now 17 years into the marriage being dissolved and every relationship attempt outside of Carlie Cooper has been rather half-assed. And the Carlie Cooper breakup occured over 12 years ago.

And you can say "well the fans were so negative to Carlie Cooper, so what's the point" but then I feel like that is basically admitting they've backed themselves into a corner with Peter's romantic prospects.

[DanMad1977]

Going to go out on a limb, speaking from personal experience here, is the problem is the promise of a single Peter Parker finally being free to actual pursue other relationships really haven't be delivered.

I'd be with you if Amazing tried to actually offer an alternative relationship for Peter. We're now 17 years into the marriage being dissolved and every relationship attempt outside of Carlie Cooper has been rather half-assed. And the Carlie Cooper breakup occured over 12 years ago.

And you can say "well the fans were so negative to Carlie Cooper, so what's the point" but then I feel like that is basically admitting they've backed themselves into a corner with Peter's romantic prospects.

But Peter has half baked relationships most of his life. Debbie Whitman, Black Cat, Gwen (ok you can argue about that) Mockingbird, Betty Brant, Carlie Cooper....

I don't even know if we even need a new relationship for Peter.

[wleakr]

Going to go out on a limb, speaking from personal experience here, is the problem is the promise of a single Peter Parker finally being free to actual pursue other relationships really haven't be delivered.

I'd be with you if Amazing tried to actually offer an alternative relationship for Peter. We're now 17 years into the marriage being dissolved and every relationship attempt outside of Carlie Cooper has been rather half-assed. And the Carlie Cooper breakup occured over 12 years ago.

And you can say "well the fans were so negative to Carlie Cooper, so what's the point" but then I feel like that is basically admitting they've backed themselves into a corner with Peter's romantic prospects.

Did Marvel state the reason of making Spider-man single again? I never got the impression the reason was to explicitly pursue other romantic interests (at least in a serious manner).

IMHO, the purpose of a single Spider-man is to allow a creative team to have flexibility around that area - if they want to introduce a love interest, fine, and if they want to not be bothered with that, fine.

The writer can focus on what they choose for their story without needing to feel "forced" to shine a light on romance/family.

[Frontier]

I'd settle for married in 616 and apart in an alternate reality. What makes the Watson Parker relationship special is their joint history in 616 - nobody would care so much about Hickman's Peter's marriage if it weren't for that.
Meanwhile, people who like Peter single keep on saying that we oughtn't to care about the history of the characters - all that matters is the current story.

I don't think they even need to be married (see Spencer's run) so long as they're together.

But Peter has half baked relationships most of his life. Debbie Whitman, Black Cat, Gwen (ok you can argue about that) Mockingbird, Betty Brant, Carlie Cooper....

I don't even know if we even need a new relationship for Peter.

I wouldn't call Felicia half-baked.

Did Marvel state the reason of making Spider-man single again? I never got the impression the reason was to explicitly pursue other romantic interests (at least in a serious manner).

IMHO, the purpose of a single Spider-man is to allow a creative team to have flexibility around that area - if they want to introduce a love interest, fine, and if they want to not be bothered with that, fine.

The writer can focus on what they choose for their story without needing to feel "forced" to shine a light on romance/family.

Isn't that basically the same thing though?

I guess we've had some spinoff books where his relationship status wasn't a factor but I don't think that should matter whether he's single or married. I can't think of an ASM run that had no romance (quality of said romance aside).

[wleakr]

Isn't that basically the same thing though?

I guess we've had some spinoff books where his relationship status wasn't a factor but I don't think that should matter whether he's single or married. I can't think of an ASM run that had no romance (quality of said romance aside).

I'm referring across the entirety of a run - there is bound to be some type of love interest over the course of a run.

But issue to issue, story arc to story arc - that is where the flexibility comes into play. Especially, if you have a guest writer fill in for few issues.

If a writer wants do to a Gang War, they can do it and push any romance to the background until they feel like revisiting. Gang War went across 8-9 issues of Amazing. If Spider-man had a significant love interest, he would have to either check in with her at some point during this arc or we'd have to cutaway to see what she is doing while Peter is fighting the good fight. Both are "forced" options that a writer has to contend with.

[Username taken]

Amazing, Miles , and Venom continue to be healthy. USM continues to kill. Oneshots /specials/mini/#1 also are doing decent. Spectacular especially had a good start

Yeah, Miles has been pretty steady considering its release date.

Venom has also been a pretty solid seller.

[Hurricane Billy]

But Peter has half baked relationships most of his life. Debbie Whitman, Black Cat, Gwen (ok you can argue about that) Mockingbird, Betty Brant, Carlie Cooper....

I don't even know if we even need a new relationship for Peter.

Which is exactly why the marriage era with MJ ruled. No half-baked romances that everyone knows mean nothing, instead just a dedicated dynamic between two fleshed out and charming characters.

[TinkerSpider]

I'm referring across the entirety of a run - there is bound to be some type of love interest over the course of a run.

But issue to issue, story arc to story arc - that is where the flexibility comes into play. Especially, if you have a guest writer fill in for few issues.

If a writer wants do to a Gang War, they can do it and push any romance to the background until they feel like revisiting. Gang War went across 8-9 issues of Amazing. If Spider-man had a significant love interest, he would have to either check in with her at some point during this arc or we'd have to cutaway to see what she is doing while Peter is fighting the good fight. Both are "forced" options that a writer has to contend with.

That’s not true. There were plenty of arcs during the marriage or when Peter was dating someone where the love interest wasn’t present. Because the love interest should be a character in her right with a life of her own in her right and it should be presumed the love interest is off, y’know, living that life while Peter is off doing his thing. MJ was out of Spencer’s run for a good chunk because she was off filming a movie/in Amazing Mary Jane.

I will never understand the mentality that criticized MJ or other love interests because they “sat at home by the window and waited/worried.” That’s on the WRITER, not on the character. In real life partners do not wait by the window. They go to work, they visit with friends, they pursue hobbies, they go the gym, they run errands, they go out dancing, etc.

And if a writer isn’t imaginative enough to write a key supporting character who is an important part of the Spider-Man mythos: maybe they shouldn’t be writing Spider-Man.

Getting back on topic: since some like to point to the ICv2/ComicsHub charts as inviolate (not me, I’m very happy to explain why they are bad, unreliable data): USM outsold ASM in a head to head matchup over the first weekend of sales by a ratio of over 2 to 1.

Seems like having a committed love interest present in a Spider-Man book doesn’t slow down either sales or reader interest in the story.

[exile001]

And if a writer isn’t imaginative enough to write a key supporting character who is an important part of the Spider-Man mythos: maybe they shouldn’t be writing Spider-Man.

I agree it is 100% on the writer. David Michelinie's MJ ALWAYS had her own stuff going on. She had entire subplots dedicated to it.

I wouldn't call Felicia half-baked.

It's a bit harsh to call in quarter-baked.

[Tuck]

And if a writer isn’t imaginative enough to write a key supporting character who is an important part of the Spider-Man mythos: maybe they shouldn’t be writing Spider-Man.

I honestly don't know why any writer would want to work on any long-standing IP with the level of restrictions placed on them (and diffuse expectations of of varying factions of fans), other than it being a childhood dream.

Not sure how much freeing up this one aspect really opens things up.

[TinkerSpider]

I honestly don't know why any writer would want to work on any long-standing IP with the level of restrictions placed on them (and diffuse expectations of of varying factions of fans), other than it being a childhood dream.

Not sure how much freeing up this one aspect really opens things up.

I agree, it seems like a weird hill to die on (I accept writing Spider-Man, with all his history and his established characterization and his established supporting cast and his need to appear in mandated crossovers, etc, but I draw the line at writing his girlfriend!).

But limitations can actually be fun for some writers. It’s like a puzzle to be solved, fitting in all the various pieces. But one has to be a writer who enjoys that type of challenge. If one is not…perhaps creator-owned would be a better place.

[Spider-Tiger]

I wouldn't call Felicia half-baked.

Felicia is like an anti-Mary Jane. In that she's almost always written better when she isn't romantically attached to Spider-Man.

[Spider-Tiger]

I agree, it seems like a weird hill to die on (I accept writing Spider-Man, with all his history and his established characterization and his established supporting cast and his need to appear in mandated crossovers, etc, but I draw the line at writing his girlfriend!).

But limitations can actually be fun for some writers. It’s like a puzzle to be solved, fitting in all the various pieces. But one has to be a writer who enjoys that type of challenge. If one is not…perhaps creator-owned would be a better place.

It's odd because the "illusion of change" strategy basically dictates that Peter and MJ will always be romantically tied and that she will always be his most significant relationship. Writers can't really back away from that permanently (as seen over the last 15 years.) But the anti-marriage approach also doesn't allow writers to move that relationship forward. So this leaves them stuck between a rock and hard place, and it seems most would rather just ignore romance in the book altogether. Allowing the couple to be married seems like it would be far less limiting.

[Kevinroc]

Did Marvel state the reason of making Spider-man single again? I never got the impression the reason was to explicitly pursue other romantic interests (at least in a serious manner).

IMHO, the purpose of a single Spider-man is to allow a creative team to have flexibility around that area - if they want to introduce a love interest, fine, and if they want to not be bothered with that, fine.

The writer can focus on what they choose for their story without needing to feel "forced" to shine a light on romance/family.

You know what a necessary tool is in long running serials? Exposition. You know what's a great way to have exposition in a comic? When the lead character catches a supporting character up on a story.

Roger Stern was no fan of the marriage, but he used MJ as a way for Peter to exposit to her (and the audience) the history of the Hobgoblin. Then MJ points out an obvious thing that Peter overlooked and pushes the story forward.

Going to go out on a limb, speaking from personal experience here, is the problem is the promise of a single Peter Parker finally being free to actual pursue other relationships really haven't be delivered.

I'd be with you if Amazing tried to actually offer an alternative relationship for Peter. We're now 17 years into the marriage being dissolved and every relationship attempt outside of Carlie Cooper has been rather half-assed. And the Carlie Cooper breakup occured over 12 years ago.

And you can say "well the fans were so negative to Carlie Cooper, so what's the point" but then I feel like that is basically admitting they've backed themselves into a corner with Peter's romantic prospects.

It's clearly not about creating a major long-standing relationship. It's about pushing the idea that being Spider-Man leads to Peter being sad and alone. "Wealth and fame, he's ignored. Action is his reward."

[wleakr]

You know what a necessary tool is in long running serials? Exposition. You know what's a great way to have exposition in a comic? When the lead character catches a supporting character up on a story.

Back in the day, yes.

Now all that exposition is captured with that handy synopsis page near the beginning of every book.