Current Spider-Man Sales

[Vordan]

With Spider-Man and Batman, it has never been a matter of people liking or not what they are reading. Their books have always a minimum of sales, and with just that alone, they are always gonna be on top.

This. People online hate Wells ASM, doesn’t stop it from being Marvel’s top solo book. It’s the same for Batman (though I maintain Zdarsky Batman has its moments).

[jsg2295]

This. People online hate Wells ASM, doesn’t stop it from being Marvel’s top solo book. It’s the same for Batman (though I maintain Zdarsky Batman has its moments).

I think the fact that ult Spider-Man is killing everyone in sales just goes to show you the wasted potential in the story being told in ASM.

[MisterTorgo]

I think the fact that ult Spider-Man is killing everyone in sales just goes to show you the wasted potential in the story being told in ASM.

Indeed. Maybe the question shouldn't be "How well is Amazing Spider-Man doing every month?", but rather, "How much better could Amazing Spider-Man be doing every month?"

[Dan Slott]

With Spider-Man and Batman, it has never been a matter of people liking or not what they are reading. Their books have always a minimum of sales, and with just that alone, they are always gonna be on top.

Spider-Man and Batman will always sell.
They'll always place high.
But neither are a guarantee for the top spots.
You only have to look at the Comichron sales for the past couple decades to see that that's the case.

At Marvel, there have been times when the X-Books have dominated, during the Bendis years of Avengers - those titles dominated, there have been times when Thor and Hulk have outsold the main Spider book, when Donny was on Venom - there were times Venom outsold the main Spider book.

Being one of the main Spider-Man books is not a silver bullet for the top spots.

But Zeb's ASM has pulled that off in a way that many ASM runs haven't. I see the online hate he gets, and I see the sales, and it makes me want to jump on here and play Devil's Advocate, because the anger from certain corners online does NOT match what's going on at the register.

This is the ICV2 chart for best selling issues in 2023-- yes, this chart is based on a smaller sampling of stores-- but these numbers also equal Point of Sale purchases, and that kinda puts the lie to people who say it's "all because of variants". Because these represent books being purchased BY customers.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...full-year-2023

The Zeb Wells run hasn't just done well, it's done well twice a month, and has consistently been Marvel's dominant title.

[MisterTorgo]

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ulti...stseller-list/

The first issue of Ultimate X-Men topped Bleedingcool's top 10 for this week. And the 3rd reprint of Ultimate Spider-Man 1 ranked at 10 in this week's BC top 10.

In other news, Spectacular Spider-Men 1 ranked 3rd behind UX-Men and Batman on this week's BC top 10.

Off topic but I've been catching up on Jed Mackay's AVENGERS and really liking it. glad to see it's doing well. I've always had a hard time staying invested in comics when Spider-Man is in a bad spot for some reason(I guess he's like a gateway superhero for me), so it's good I can look forward to more of that, at least.

[Mister Mets]

Indeed. Maybe the question shouldn't be "How well is Amazing Spider-Man doing every month?", but rather, "How much better could Amazing Spider-Man be doing every month?"

It's doing pretty well right now. What about its current ranking suggests Marvel would want to do things differently?

[MisterTorgo]

It's doing pretty well right now. What about its current ranking suggests Marvel would want to do things differently?

Sure, it's doing well sales-wise, it's Amazing Spider-Man. Not to sound ravingly capitalistic, but that doesn't mean it can't do better.

[Mister Mets]

Sure, it's doing well sales-wise, it's Amazing Spider-Man. Not to sound ravingly capitalistic, but that doesn't mean it can't do better.

Why should Marvel be looking at the information we have available, and concluding the series could do better?

Another way to think about this is that if Marvel could do it over again, would they think it's worth the risk?

[MisterTorgo]

Why should Marvel be looking at the information we have available, and concluding the series could do better?

Another way to think about this is that if Marvel could do it over again, would they think it's worth the risk?

Because there's always going to be risk. They could keep the current team and status quo and there would still be risk. Given that the industry as a whole is declining, changes will be made eventually, whether they want them to or not. And depending on whether or not Ultimate keeps outselling it (maybe, maybe not), that might hint to an upward path.

And it's the nature of business to always be asking, "How could we be doing better?", regardless of product.

[Mister Mets]

Because there's always going to be risk. They could keep the current team and status quo and there would still be risk. Given that the industry as a whole is declining, changes will be made eventually, whether they want them to or not. And depending on whether or not Ultimate keeps outselling it (maybe, maybe not), that might hint to an upward path.

And it's the nature of business to always be asking, "How could we be doing better?", regardless of product.

It's also important to consider whether they could have reasonably expected things to go better.

So there's the basic test of what metrics Amazing Spider-Man is currently underperforming it.

If they want back to the initial decision to hire Zeb Wells and agree to his direction, would they want a mulligan? If so, why?

[Username taken]

Spider-Man and Batman will always sell.
They'll always place high.
But neither are a guarantee for the top spots.
You only have to look at the Comichron sales for the past couple decades to see that that's the case.

At Marvel, there have been times when the X-Books have dominated, during the Bendis years of Avengers - those titles dominated, there have been times when Thor and Hulk have outsold the main Spider book, when Donny was on Venom - there were times Venom outsold the main Spider book.

Being one of the main Spider-Man books is not a silver bullet for the top spots.

But Zeb's ASM has pulled that off in a way that many ASM runs haven't. I see the online hate he gets, and I see the sales, and it makes me want to jump on here and play Devil's Advocate, because the anger from certain corners online does NOT match what's going on at the register.

This is the ICV2 chart for best selling issues in 2023-- yes, this chart is based on a smaller sampling of stores-- but these numbers also equal Point of Sale purchases, and that kinda puts the lie to people who say it's "all because of variants". Because these represent books being purchased BY customers.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...full-year-2023

The Zeb Wells run hasn't just done well, it's done well twice a month, and has consistently been Marvel's dominant title.

Exactly,

It's pointed out here a number of times that prior to Superior Spider-man (1st series), ASM wasn't dominating the charts the way it is now. I believe that Batman became the monster it is now after Morrison and then Snyder.

Ultimately,, there's nothing like guaranteed sales. People will ultimately stop buying a book if they don't like it. Hate buying can only last so long.

[wleakr]

Exactly,

It's pointed out here a number of times that prior to Superior Spider-man (1st series), ASM wasn't dominating the charts the way it is now. I believe that Batman became the monster it is now after Morrison and then Snyder.

Ultimately,, there's nothing like guaranteed sales. People will ultimately stop buying a book if they don't like it. Hate buying can only last so long.

I would think this too!

Now, I'm not so sure....

"Everyone" online say they can't stand the Zeb Wells run and based on what sales info we have, they have been still supporting (hate buying) his run for almost 3 years now!

[MisterTorgo]

It's also important to consider whether they could have reasonably expected things to go better.

So there's the basic test of what metrics Amazing Spider-Man is currently underperforming it.

If they want back to the initial decision to hire Zeb Wells and agree to his direction, would they want a mulligan? If so, why?

I feel like we're talking past each other here. I never said Amazing is underperforming or to rewrite the past 2 years of sales performance, I said it might be able to do better. There's a difference.

[Kevinroc]

When was the last time an issue of Amazing Spider-Man got a third printing? Let alone a fourth printing?

When was the last time a second printing of ASM ranked in the top 50?

Yeah, the title currently sells well, but it can always be doing better. Just something to keep in mind.

[Dan Slott]

I'm seeing people online who are confused about what the ICV2 numbers mean, and when/how variant covers help bump up numbers, and when/how variants are a reflection of how well the book is doing.

The ICV2 numbers take a small sampling of comic shops (125 shops out of around 3,000).
Since all the major distributors are no longer using Diamond, and Diamond would post the numbers in the past, it's hard for the public at large to get an accurate account of what books are selling.
That said, looking at this small sample is a way to make a fairly good guess at general trends.

And important fact about the ICV2 numbers: They are Point of Sale numbers. They're numbers gained by what is sold at the register and put into customers' hands.
That means they're a very good metric for how well a book does DESPITE variants.
If a store has to order X amount of a comic in order to get a rare variant, that could mean that a store is willing to get an excess amount of comics in order to make up for it by selling that rare variant to a collector at an inflated amount.
HOWEVER, if a book is doing phenomenally well in Point of Sale numbers, that is reflecting how what the CUSTOMER is buying from the retailer.
And that means that fan demand is getting that book over the finish line.

In the case of Zeb's ASM run, you can look at those ICV2 numbers, and that shows (regardless of whether you personally like or don't like the book) that it is dominating those charts, taking 1 or 2 spots in the Top 10 on a regular basis, and pretty much flooding the Top 50 zone for the best selling issues of the YEAR-- on a chart that is entirely BOOKS in the HANDS of CUSTOMERS.

I've seen people upset that I keep saying that SPIDER-BOY #1 was Marvel's best selling book for 2023, despite that it's not listed as Marvel's best selling book of 2023 in ICV2's charts. In their charts SPIDER-MAN #7, Spider-Boy's 1st appearance, is actually Marvel's best selling book for 2023, and the 2nd best selling book in the industry. (Way to go TRANSFOMERS at #1!!!)
So it's a pretty weird flex on my part to contradict that chart and say that another book I worked on was Marvel's best selling book. Why not just take the win? Because that wouldn't be truthful. SPIDER-BOY #1 took the spot (when you can see all of the numbers in one place). And I've been very straight forward about WHY that's not reflected in the ICV2 numbers: Retailer variants.

There are 3 main kinds of variants:

Marvel incentive variants - When retailers order a specific amount of a title, they get a certain number of special variants. The more they order, the rarer the variants they can get.

Retailer variants - Retailers approach Marvel (usually larger stores and chains) and, because they have faith that a specific issue will do well, they order a special variant for their store. No one is twisting their arms to make this happen. This is a case of retailers believing in a product and wanting to back that belief up. Those are sales that are generated by retailer DEMAND. I take that as win that the book has EARNED. Retailers can approach Marvel to commission a special variant for ANY book Marvel is doing-- and if they choose to do that for ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, or SOMETHING IS KILLING THE CHILDREN, or DETECTIVE COMICS, or... gasp... SPIDER-BOY-- those are variants that those books got on their own steam.

2nd, 3rd, and 4th Printing variants - These are variants that the company puts together for books that have sold out a distributor level and need to go back to press. These are the BEST variants to get. This means (even if there's a stack of a certain book at YOUR store) that somewhere out there the book has sold out at enough stores that there are so many reorders that the book has to go back to press for an additional printing. Right now ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN is deservedly racking those kinds of variants up in their win column. Fair's fair though, you also have to give praise to Zeb's run for racking up a lot of additional printings, and Nick's run too. (And maybe a certain someone who sold out a third of their entire 10+ years on ASM and 1 year and a half on S-M & SSM, racking up seventy 2nd printings, thirteen 3rd printings, four 4th printings, and two 5th printings).

Side note: I saw someone saying "If SPIDER-BOY's so good, why hasn't it gotten a 2nd printing?" It did.

Anyhoo... Did SPIDER-BOY #1 get to be Marvel's best selling issue last year thanks to variants? Yes. Retailer variants. Which are very different from Marvel's incentive variants. Retailers came to Marvel, not the other way around, and retailers commissioned those variants because they had faith in the title. That's something Paco, Erick, Ty, Dee, Joe, Humberto, MR, Ellie, and I earned. It's not reflected in those ICV2 numbers because those 125 shops don't include a lot of the larger chains and bigger stores. But, hey, if you don't want to give it to us, I'm perfectly fine with the asterisk and letting you count SPIDER-BOY #1 as Marvel's 9th best selling issue of 2023... with SPIDER-MAN #7 being Marvel's "official" best selling issue of 2023 in your mind. :-P

And, as I've said here and other places, I'm very excited and happy for Jonathan, Marco, Will, and the entire ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN teams' success. We're only 3 months into the year, and I wouldn't be surprised at ALL if USM #1 or another USM issue walked away as the best selling issue of all of 2024! It's an exciting time to be a Spidey fan on many levels! Conversely, if things had played out differently and an equal number of people online were being as openly hostile to the USM team as they've been to the current ASM team, I'd be on these message boards defending them-- with stats and figures and whatnot.

I've seen people online who are determined to believe I am scared by another title-- by my fellow Marvel creators, people I LIKE-- and that its stunning success somehow freaks me out and makes me fear for my future. Dude, I worked on the top selling issue for Marvel for the last two years in a row, got my contract re-upped, am working with the legendary Mark Bagley on a Spidey title, co-created a new IP about an imaginary sidekick that's now a Top 50 title that's outselling Green Lantern, Titans, and Batman & Robin, and I'm heading over to an Oscar party tonight-- with fingers crossed-- hoping that a Spider-Man movie I helped out on might win an Oscar. I think I'm okay.

Internet people are silly.