How violent and destructive should Superman fights be

[Hoodj]

I've seen some pretty damn hard-core fights in justice involving Supes against enemies and even infamous ones like Doomsday and Lobo, so I ask you how much should his fights be escalated in terms of violent scaling, like dbz violent or dare I say invincible violent?

[Deacon Blues]

i think the majority of his fights shouldn't even be approaching that level of violence. what makes old superman stories shine are the ways he uses his powers to creatively solve problems-- he's the problem solving superhero! sure, his super strength makes him a great brawler, but there's only so much punching and kicking i can read before it gets a little boring for me. a good superman fight has him exploiting an enemy's weakness, or tricking them somehow. coming up with a super-trap to capture them in, that sort of thing.

[Kuwagaton]

I don't get tired of fighting/action in my fiction. Assuming the creators have enough good sense to know why they're doing what they're doing and when they've hit a wall in what they are depicting on the page or screen.

The easiest answer is to say it should be at minimum, but I think the truth should be more interesting than that. Each story should have its unique blend of addressing the condition, the conflict, and the consequence. If you know what you want to do with those then you can probably regulate a lot of elements like the nature and rate of graphic details. Maybe the threat is specifically lethal to Superman and the view of his own mortality is more important than the threat to others. Maybe the least graphic depiction ends with property destruction and it's just as bad for those affected. He can't always have the immediate win on each front. Remember the Battle for Metropolis? The city took months to rebuild. It was like the Gotham earthquake with none of that nu-metal infusion. Action never has to be small vs big, nasty vs impressive, funny vs cool, a certain page count, etc. Just well considered.

As for how Superman fights, of course I have a ton of examples. But some of my favorite Superman fights are vs Grundy in Superman #301 and vs Lar Gand/Lobo in the Legion '90 crossover. I like enemies drying up and breaking after pouring all they had whether they're effective or not, I like if it's kind of a fun challenge to show them who's boss, I like seeing the rope a dope when the threat is actually substantial, I like seeing him laid out and back up with a pleasant steadfastness, I like when he humors them and makes it seem tougher than it is, I like him finding the just-right level of force, I like him being cognizant of a dozen other things going on, and I like miming the big fight. I think we should almost never see the big head to head showdown even when we think we're seeing it. I think of him as Space Dempsey in a mental note but I never want all of the cards face up on the table.

[Venomized-spider-man]

I fine with fight to be destructive and violent in order to build up suspense and tension in battles especially since we are dealing with Superman to disperse the weird misconception that he a invincible god who has a win button at hand. Honestly the action and violence can be done well case in point the death of superman where he finally fighting Doomsday someone superior strength and it this massive clash of titans but Superman still tries to save people and prevent collateral damage in the case of the kid Mitch

which lies the heart of the issue is that it always better to show superman try to descale the destruction and casualties of the fight. Something like MOS where Clark is dragging Zod across a building or him dodging a oil tanker letting the building in the back get blow up just doesn't really jive well for the superman that we doing

[NaVi]

It all depends on the enemy, a fight against Lex has to be more intellectual, very little destruction but the kind that does real damage. Zod has to be a war not only in metropolis, throughout the solar system (two beings faster than light, who can destroy planets, we must take advantage of it) Superman and Zod fight while using Kryptonian technology as an army, a destruction on a large scale.

[Stanlos]

I've seen some pretty damn hard-core fights in justice involving Supes against enemies and even infamous ones like Doomsday and Lobo, so I ask you how much should his fights be escalated in terms of violent scaling, like dbz violent or dare I say invincible violent?

Superman is both powerful af AND intelligent AF (in fact, despite all the mental jobbing writers have him do, he is defined as a GENIUS in intellect). Thus he should not be behaving like one of those bad anime movies with the misshapen characters eith spikey hair. He should work toward making sure people are safe and moving the fight to a less populated area

[Kuwagaton]

It all depends on the enemy, a fight against Lex has to be more intellectual, very little destruction but the kind that does real damage. Zod has to be a war not only in metropolis, throughout the solar system (two beings faster than light, who can destroy planets, we must take advantage of it) Superman and Zod fight while using Kryptonian technology as an army, a destruction on a large scale.

Superman vs the city or the city vs Superman are always fun with Lex, though. So that deals with collateral damage largely but yeah, I can also say that I think the more "human" scale for operation is a huge part of why I like most Lex stories.

[DochaDocha]

All of the controversy aside, the amount of destruction in MoS was pretty appropriate IMO. MoS had too much action, to the point that the movie started coming to a crawl, but the Smallville and Metropolis battles were visually interesting and relatively unique compared to the cinema landscape. The Smallville battle was particularly well-shot, IMO, especially since it was a daytime scene, and I think it generally holds up well today. Of course, that was ten years ago and things have changed quite a bit, and the large portion of audiences claiming that it was too destructive with not enough emphasis on Superman's trying to save the people/property (I don't agree with this sentiment, BTW) means they can't rehash it. So for the next Superman movie, I don't think they need that level of destruction, but rather should find ways to make any fight visually interesting.

[NaVi]

Superman vs the city or the city vs Superman are always fun with Lex, though. So that deals with collateral damage largely but yeah, I can also say that I think the more "human" scale for operation is a huge part of why I like most Lex stories.

Superman vs Lex is undoubtedly a great fight, but I have always seen it as a desperate action or that Lex decides to deliver the final blow after a masterful move, not as a fight without more, that's why I speak of a more intellectual fight, the physical combat would be the end.

[exile001]

It'd be nice to see some focused Superman battles with some actual thought and planning going into the fight. It's something we so rarely see.

Superman has all these powers to use in battle, heat vision, ice breath, he's faster than sound and can punch a whole through a moon. We got a bit more of this back in the Loeb era.

This is a problem across DC/Marvel.

Batman is supposed to be the world's greatest (everything nowadays, but specifically) martial artist and he pretty much just jumps towards and punches people until they fall down.

[Kuwagaton]

Superman vs Lex is undoubtedly a great fight, but I have always seen it as a desperate action or that Lex decides to deliver the final blow after a masterful move, not as a fight without more, that's why I speak of a more intellectual fight, the physical combat would be the end.

It's certainly an idea that's been etched into the minds of readers, with the climactic scenes from stories like Birthright and All Star. But I think of Lex as basically the old school JJJ with all the Perry whiteness removed and exponentially greater means: his greatest drive essentially just being a guy who hates Superman. Superman is a loathsome Other and when Lex can prove it you get a conflict like we saw early in Morrison's Action, or in Superman #302.

I mentioned the issue before that because of the cool fight, but Lex is capable of a nonviolent attack that's way more impactful than an ass kicking. For me, watching Superman bumble around with a body too big for his brain was actually sad, unlike watching Kal-L get pummeled to death in that one story I probably dislike more than any other.

It'd be nice to see some focused Superman battles with some actual thought and planning going into the fight. It's something we so rarely see.

Superman has all these powers to use in battle, heat vision, ice breath, he's faster than sound and can punch a whole through a moon. We got a bit more of this back in the Loeb era.

This is a problem across DC/Marvel.

Batman is supposed to be the world's greatest (everything nowadays, but specifically) martial artist and he pretty much just jumps towards and punches people until they fall down.

I've spent pretty much forever trying to decide which Batman I like more: the guy who'd get worked over by several dock workers at once, or the king of ninjas who they had the nerve to write as being too stealthy for Daredevil to detect (yes it was a crossover, but still).

With Superman I'm pretty set on not liking him written as a guy overwhelmed by human sensation when he's without power. Who gets brain damaged from a pistol whip. If a writer thinks that being competent aside from his powers is too much, then I would want them to cut his power in half and just work from there. Whether he lifts a school bus or a planet he's Superman, he's generally not supposed to suck at things.