Will the Wells Run matter in five years?

[Kevinroc]

It's gonna be weird when a future writer does a Peter and MJ romance arc, and Peter refers to MJ as a former superhero.

[Garlador]

I really doubt that. Among other things it didn't reflect poorly on characters the way Avengers 200 did.

It depends on how they handle MJ and Paul's relationship since they've kept it very vague.

What's kind of ironic there is that Avengers #200 actually wasn't trying to be vague at all, and sincerely wanted Carol and Marcus to be an actual couple with them getting a "happy" ending, with no intentional negative connotations.

It wasn't until Avengers Annual #10 came along that Avengers #200 was fully recontextualized as a sincerely very problematic relationship.

That's why I've mentioned that ASM #25 is a lot closer to Avengers #200 than many are comfortable with, because the SETUP is very similar, but the full gravity of the situation hasn't been explained like Carol's was a whole year later. Both stories sincerely advocated for a woman being imprisoned in another dimension until loneliness, desperation, and manipulation forced her into the arms of the only other adult male in existence, and then had that woman at the end of the issue defend her interdimensional lover from accusations of being a lying, manipulative scumbag and choosing him over staying with the people she once cared about, claiming her responsibility as a "mother" now was more important.

If Claremont hadn't been so outraged that he demanded he retcon it and call it out, Carol would have just been in the same role sinkhole Mary Jane has been this whole time.

[Batman Begins 2005]

No and rightly so. It's shit.

[Daibhidh]

1994-1999 is pretty much treated like a void. Only a few key characters and concepts survive from then or are remembered (Ben Reilly, Kaine, Mayday, Norman coming back... that's about it).

(John Cleese voice) So, apart from Ben Reilly and Kaine and Mayday and Norman coming back what did the Clone saga era ever do for Spider-man?

(Not that I'm actually comparing you to John Cleese's character.)

They set the Lost Hunt in that period. I think the Slingers have been referred to lately: isn't Hobie Brown now the Locust?

[vhm74]

Sure it will, the damage he's doing will be really hard to fix/ignore

[Venomsaurus]

Yes. Damage has been done that will take years to fix. Even if Paul and MJ are just pals the damage done to MJ's character and the massive waste of time making her Jackpot is a time that can't be easily swept under the rug. As of this point unless they actually address the way she treated Peter this last year is a stain on MJ's character. Not one I expect Marvel to ever address in a decent timely manner since the whole arc about this mystery never answered it.

Hell, issues 24-26 are Sins Past levels of bad that will haunt the series for the next decade to come.

Years from now I can see us fretting over the next garbage thing they do to MJ and praying it's not the next Dead Languages.

[Alan2099]

It's gonna be weird when a future writer does a Peter and MJ romance arc, and Peter refers to MJ as a former superhero.

Imagine if she ends up joining the Avengers or something,. even if it's only for an issue or two.

[Rift]

The point is that there's a good chance it's going to be remembered in a negative light, and also as a cautionary tale.



If we go back exactly 30 years, then 1993 is the last "memorable year" of the 20th century. It's the year of Harry Osborn's death by JMD.

1994-1999 is pretty much treated like a void. Only a few key characters and concepts survive from then or are remembered (Ben Reilly, Kaine, Mayday, Norman coming back... that's about it).

2000-2007 is very memorable for a bunch of stuff (Bendis, JMS, Paul Jenkins' stuff, minis like Marvel Knights, Blue and To Have And To Hold).

Then after 2007, Bendis continues to be memorable with Ultimate and Miles Morales, while 616 Peter's comics stop except for a few instances (mostly Spider-Verse stuff).

Haha funny joke, forgetting to mention THE second most memorable addition to Spider-Man lore in recent times: Piper Dali, AKA Paper Doll.

[Daibhidh]

As one poster said, trying to justify Mary Jane becoming a superhero, someone who has lost children they've brought up for three years (even if the children weren't real), is either going to be marked for life or sociopathic. So as long as one cares about continuity at all, Mary Jane is either marked for life or sociopathic.
That is really not a good place to take the character.

Otherwise, conversations in which Peter and Mary Jane pledge that they'll wait for each other forever if necessary will only work if heavily ironic.
You can't properly do a trading places storyline where Peter loses powers and Mary Jane gets them if she's already been a superhero for any length of time. Well, you can, but it's a bit meh if you've already seen how MJ copes with being a superhero.

[Xenon]

The stuff so far? Hopefully not. If it does it's only as a stain on Mary Jane. So that's depressing. It could easily take five years to undo that depending on how stubborn they are. But I suspect that stuff won't actually even make it out of the run itself, so probably not.

Unfortunately though the Jackpot thing is probably going to be hard to fully get rid of. In comic someone will likely want to try and do something later on with it, probably when the SQ is better, to see if it can work in a non-toxic environment. And who knows what else will happen that could inflict longer term damage on the character. While I'm fine judging the quality of the run mid stream, impact is harder. He could do something impactful and non-toxic in the latter half of the run. I'm not COUNTING on it, but it could happen.

Adaptation wise this is the kind of run that scares me, because as much as I don't want any of this to be referenced these are exactly the kind of stories that adaptations would love to use, just in better form. The strong independent woman having her own powers so she doesn't need saving? Yeah that's gonna come up. Probably with a different origin to her powers, as its hard to sell a love story when one of the participants gives up on the other for no reason but time. But yeah, I hav ea bad feeling Jackpot will be around for a long time.

[Xenon]

As one poster said, trying to justify Mary Jane becoming a superhero, someone who has lost children they've brought up for three years (even if the children weren't real), is either going to be marked for life or sociopathic. So as long as one cares about continuity at all, Mary Jane is either marked for life or sociopathic.
That is really not a good place to take the character.

Otherwise, conversations in which Peter and Mary Jane pledge that they'll wait for each other forever if necessary will only work if heavily ironic.
You can't properly do a trading places storyline where Peter loses powers and Mary Jane gets them if she's already been a superhero for any length of time. Well, you can, but it's a bit meh if you've already seen how MJ copes with being a superhero.

I mean, regarding the kids just realizing that there is no victim there besides herself is pretty easy to dispense with. The Paul thing is much more damaging to her long term and yeah recolors a lot of declarations of love that happened in the hundreds of issues they were together. "I'd wait for you" [insert Maury "that was a lie" meme here].

Like it's not going to change opinions on what the endgame relationship would be it just makes that relationship worse. A really really foolish decision.

[Daibhidh]

I mean, regarding the kids just realizing that there is no victim there besides herself is pretty easy to dispense with.

But she is a victim there.

[godisawesome]

Define "matters." I think it's safe to bet that most of the Wells status quo shake ups will be gone. Paul will be gone. MJ will be depowered. Felicia and Peter will be broken up. Kamala will be revived, etc. (The only thing that might stick is if Kamala is revived as a mutant.) But I think most of that is by Wells' own design. He doesn't seem to be creating much that's meant to have long term ramifications or consequences on the book past his run. That seems to be part of the BND approach.

Will the material we've seen so far be adapted in other media? Maybe if it's heavily reworked. Otherwise, nothing from the "What did Peter do?" saga really lends itself to the status quos of the MCU, Insomniac, or animation, etc. So unless he creates a concept (like Spider-verse or Superior) that's more intriguing for the remainder of his run, or a great new villain, I think we've got another largely forgettable run on our hands. The thing that people will probably remember the most is Kamala's death and likely not in a positive light.

That’s sort of how I see it.

There’s stuff Zeb Wells has deliberately undercut in terms of potential impact (Peter’s relationship with Black Cat in this run), stuff he wanted to have an impact but has contextually undercut without necessarily realizing it (Rabin), some stuff that might have an impact but has an uphill battle (Golden Goblin), and some stuff that might have seemed incidental to him but may have an outsize impact thanks to outside factors (Vulture’s relationship with his granddaughter).

And you can’t always predict what will actually impress other creators enough to make them revisit it. JMS clearly hoped that Morlun and Ezekiel would be a big deal, and Slott clearly felt the same… but no one else seems even mildly intrigued.

[Kevinroc]

I think it's important to keep in mind that we're even seeing Kindred (I am aware Kindred is from Spencer's run) getting used in other media.

[CaptainUniverse]

I think it's important to keep in mind that we're even seeing Kindred (I am aware Kindred is from Spencer's run) getting used in other media.

That is bad ass.