a 14th question: Lois as endgame?

[DochaDocha]

Although I feel like, looking back at the New 52, they really had no idea what to do with Lois when she wasn't the main love interest or most relevant female character in the Superman comics.

The New 52 was not a good era for Lois.

Can't disagree with that. I thought SM/WW was fine for what it was, but I also firmly believe it resulted from DC's fear that they were going to lose the Toberoff case and made it their Plan B.

[Ascended]

Question 14: Is Lois the endgame?

Short answer is yes. She was there from the very first issue and hasn't left Clark's side since. She's been the big love interest in basically every media adaptation ever. Lois is the endgame and I don't know how debatable that ever truly was, even in the Silver Age when they'd toy with the idea of Clark settling down with someone else.

But I don't think that means she has to be the 'only' too. I very much favor Clark being with other women before and after Lois. Even if Lois is his great love that doesn't mean he'll never find happiness elsewhere. And I'm perfectly fine with adaptations and Elseworlds and such doing different things, with different people. That's fine, more than fine. But the "ultimate" "perfect" Superman story? It's Lois and Clark.

[godisawesome]

Question 14: Is Lois the endgame?

Short answer is yes. She was there from the very first issue and hasn't left Clark's side since. She's been the big love interest in basically every media adaptation ever. Lois is the endgame and I don't know how debatable that ever truly was, even in the Silver Age when they'd toy with the idea of Clark settling down with someone else.

But I don't think that means she has to be the 'only' too. I very much favor Clark being with other women before and after Lois. Even if Lois is his great love that doesn't mean he'll never find happiness elsewhere. And I'm perfectly fine with adaptations and Elseworlds and such doing different things, with different people. That's fine, more than fine. But the "ultimate" "perfect" Superman story? It's Lois and Clark.

I would actually love it if any “Lois and Clark”-esque story fully updated most of Lois Clark’s previous love interests and mined them for good, modern sitcom humor.

Like, imagine someone making Lori Lemaris visiting Metropolis into a story with Lois both before she finds out Clark is Superman and after - “So, you’re college ex, who is a wonderful Poker player, by the way, even if she still owes me for our last game… is a mermaid? Like, an actual, fish-tailed, sea-shell bikini-top mermaid?”

Or if it turned out that most of Lois’s exes wore glasses…

[Lucas 35]

I feel like people are overestimating the Superman/WW relationship in New 52, even if the continuity continued, even if they didn't bring back the post-Crisis versions, it's obvious that it wouldn't last, that even if nowadays they brought an Earth to New 52, I feel it would be a matter of time for Clark to return to Lois, plus this relationship is horrible for Diana

[Primal Slayer]

She is endgame, the biggest love of Clarks life. But I still enjoy seeing them date other people before ultimately ending up together.

Now would it be interesting to look at a Superman who has kind of outlived her, yes but I love Lois.

[DochaDocha]

I feel like people are overestimating the Superman/WW relationship in New 52, even if the continuity continued, even if they didn't bring back the post-Crisis versions, it's obvious that it wouldn't last, that even if nowadays they brought an Earth to New 52, I feel it would be a matter of time for Clark to return to Lois, plus this relationship is horrible for Diana

I think if the question were if it was good, that's been litigated to great degrees on this board, heh. But if the question were if it were one of the salient features of New 52, I'd say so, yes. It spawned its own title that ran for several years, and the New 52 itself only ran about five. Anyway, the reason I mentioned the middle finger was because New 52 has already been gone longer (about seven years) than it was around, so I figure bringing it back at this point without one of the aspects that made New 52 distinctly New 52 would seem like just trying to invalidate/retcon out that one aspect.

But to your point, yeah, Lois' endgame status pretty much killed any real expectation that SM/WW would last. Pretty much the only thing that would've made it last is if Toberoff won a SCOTUS ruling and DC had to pivot hard.

[Jon Clark]

Well apparently i found the one Superman topic that everyone (but me) agrees on: "Lois must be the love interest".

[Adekis]

Out of all the things Lois Lane can be to Superman and Clark Kent - confidant, work partner, mentor, professional rival, buddy - I think "romantic interest" is probably the one that interests me least.

I once started writing a Superman fan fic. I didn't get too far in the writing, but my plan was always for Lois to be Clark's professional rival, and for the love interest to be Cat Grant. Just to explore that dynamic instead of going for the "Clois" dynamic that always seems to be assumed into place at this point.

Don't get me wrong. I like the relationship between Clark and Lois. But it's definitely not the only 'main' ship I enjoy for the series, and I think locking it into place as universal, severely limits the possibilities of what the two are each capable of as characters.

[Vordan]

Well apparently i found the one Superman topic that everyone (but me) agrees on: "Lois must be the love interest".

Less that she has to be and more that she will be. There’s yet to be a major Superman adaption apart from the comics/animation that has Clark with anyone other than Lois. Could such a story be told? Sure. Will it? It’s unlikely at this point, Lois is too cemented as the love interest.

[manwhohaseverything]

No it's batman..everyone know that..sheesh!

[CosmeticSkull]

No it's batman..everyone know that..sheesh!

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[bat39]

Lois’s biggest single advantage is that she’s considered a “must have” character for any serious adaptation of Superman, even ones that aren’t very interested in romance, and has thus built up a stone her storytelling function and fanbase than any of her rivals…. And as a result, has also left a much deeper impact in both comics and in multi-media versions that her rivals can’t hope to match.

Like… her biggest rivals as just a supporting character are the often-neglected Jimmy Olsen, who’s a distant second behind her, and Lex Luthor when he’s given a supporting role, and he’s still defined by being an antagonist. Lana’s not even really competition; Lana’s been in multiple live action shows, movies, and cartoons… and we all know that she’s still seen as strictly an optional character, while Lois simply isn’t. Even the Superboy show that did Lana and not Lois has sunk into obscurity compared to Lois and Clark and Smallville.

And even happenstance has sort of leaned into beefing up Lois’s place as a romantic interest and supporting character; Erica Durrance’s Lois wound up becoming the “superior” female lead to Kristen Kruek’s Lana Lang even though Smallville’s producers clearly loved Kruek’s Lang more than expected.

It also hasn’t helped that a lot fo writers seem to immediately become more lazy and shallow whenever they try a different love interest - DC wanted to market the crap out of their Superman and Wonder Woman gimmick, and let’s face it, it remains a “ship” where the fans have done more head-canon storytelling than the writers at their best.

I mean, at this point, if you just want supporting characters for an-action focused, non-romantic Superman story, Lois is still going to be needed to do the investigating that Superman needs to find the problem. And if you *do* want a romance, than Lois has the precedent, recognition, previous stories for inspiration, and most interesting chemistry with him.

Couldn't have put it better myself!

I think if the question were if it was good, that's been litigated to great degrees on this board, heh. But if the question were if it were one of the salient features of New 52, I'd say so, yes. It spawned its own title that ran for several years, and the New 52 itself only ran about five. Anyway, the reason I mentioned the middle finger was because New 52 has already been gone longer (about seven years) than it was around, so I figure bringing it back at this point without one of the aspects that made New 52 distinctly New 52 would seem like just trying to invalidate/retcon out that one aspect.

But to your point, yeah, Lois' endgame status pretty much killed any real expectation that SM/WW would last. Pretty much the only thing that would've made it last is if Toberoff won a SCOTUS ruling and DC had to pivot hard.

I don't think the Superman/WW relationship is a more definitive aspect of the New 52 than the T-shirt and jeans look and Morrison's run, or even the armored suit for that matter.

[DochaDocha]

I don't think the Superman/WW relationship is a more definitive aspect of the New 52 than the T-shirt and jeans look and Morrison's run, or even the armored suit for that matter.

T-shirt and jeans is definitely one of the iconic looks birthed by New 52, which is pretty amazing because it only lasted about halfway through Morrison's run and popped up only here and there in random issues.

Anyway, the costumes are aesthetics and not narrative elements, and I didn't say it was the definitive New 52 feature of Superman (just "one of"). The SM/WW subplot got it's own book that spanned much of New 52, which also leaked into animated movies*, Justice League Action, and sort of even Lego Batman 3. That's a pretty big story element to ignore altogether, though I get why people who hated it try their best to.

*The Lois scene in Throne of Atlantis is another piece of evidence of her inevitability. You don't even bother writing that scene in if she's not so strongly romantically tied to Superman.

EDIT: I guess there's some narrative behind the costumes, but the story behind the costumes are details and not the story itself.

[manwhohaseverything]

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The greatest love story ever..