The Spider-Man Video Games thread!

[Jman27]

Spider-Man
Platform: Playstation, N64, Dreamcast
Released: 2000
Rating: 8/10
Notables: First 3-D Spider-Man Game
Thoughts: Not including his appearances in the versus series there was a four year gap between Spider-Man titles, which, for the 90s was huge. But he came back with a vengence and one of hte most well beloved titles of all time, the simply stated "Spider-Man" for PlayStation. well, that's what it's usually referred to as, even though it was on the N64 a couple months later and the Dreamcast the next year. This was one that was on my Christmas and Birthday lists but I could never scrounge up the money to buy it myself, so I never got to play it at the time. Since then, however, I've gotten all three versions at various thrift stores and half-price bookstores. But I still hadn't played it until today. Simply the result of all those other titles not being hooked up by the time I got it (my N64 is on the other side of the country even, lol). So this had a lot of hype going into it and it....mostly delivers? The story opens with Peter Parker and Eddie Brock in the crowd as they watch a Presentation by Otto Octavius. Some VO implies this is not Peter's first rodeo with Otto, but he may be reformed. Suddenly from backstage, Spider-Man comes out, knocks Otto away, and steals his equipment. Peter, after bumping into Eddie (who has a meltdown about his camera being destroyed by Spider-Man), goes off to pursue the thief. And that's the start of the game, kinda. When you gain control you're on the top of a roof and Felicia drops by to tell you that "The Bank" is being robbed and so Spider-Man is distracted from his initial goal. What's interesting here is that, obviously, being the first 3-D Spider-Man game and early in 3-D gaming in general, they didn't have city web swinging, but they still wanted to include some of it, so you have this intro section among others where you have to follow a radar and swing from building to building to reach your destination. It's...kinda lame, honestly, lol. The swinging always causes you to descend, so you can't keep it up for very long, it's really most ly a giant jump extension. And ther are enemies on each roof, keeping the focus on the combat. After you reach "the Bank" (seriously that's what its' called) Spidey goes throught the roof into the building to take on the "Jade Consortium" IIRC. Trying to vary the game up, there are hostages here, who you have to make sure you don't get shot or you fail the mission. It's not too bad except for in one part. Basically, once the enemy is aware of your presence, they may hold up a hostage, at which point they will shoot and kill them after a few seconds. You can crawl along to ceiling to delay detection but for the most part once you engage they'll be too busy losing to you to worry about the hostages. There was one part where I had to do it a few times, but as we've moved into the "modern" era of gaming when developers wanted you beat the game instead of seeing you as an antagonist, there was a retry option that made it nice and quick. The section ends with a bomb that you have to put in the bank vault to let it blow up safely. I thought this part was pretty cool. It doesn't tell you what to do only that you have to get rid of a bomb and you have limited options to do it. But it's a good sign that they were trying to vary up some of their goals beyond just "punch the bad guys". At the end of the stage Daredevil shows up to interrogate Spider-Man, but once he's satisfied he says he'll spread the word and mentions Jameson is in trouble.




Moving on to stage 2, this starts with us web swinging over to the Daily Bugle before Scorpion can kill Jonah, a classic little tale. Once you arrive,, you have to fight the Scorpion while protecting Jonah. This caused me some concern at first, given how "protecting" NPCs can go in a lot of games, but honestly Jonah gets out of the way and Scorpion is easily focused on you. This first boss fight wasn't too bad, but the combat is....a little questionable. Spidey can punch, kick (these are separate buttons) or web, as well and move around and jump. By holding different directions you can change your web shot to be an impact webbing shot that does a lot of damage, a web gloves that will enhance your punches, a web dome which will shield you before exploding for area damage, or you can pull an enemy your webbing up. you can also just hold the web button to tie people up temporarily. Unfortunately what you won't see there is any kind of defensive option. No guard, no dodge roll, you kinda just have to move, and you're not fast enough. Sure enough later boss fights seem to recognize this problem and give you respawning health and web pickups, but scorpion is easy enough I didn't notice any. He tends to attack too far forward, so if you're in his face you can kick him to death pretty quickly (I hadn't learned yet about the gloves that really increase your attack power or the value of Impact Webbing). However, you get it done, defeatng Jameson leads to the cops chasing you out of there (ungrateful....) and you have to web swing away from a helicopter shooting missiles and a machine gun.



The distractions aren't over yet, though. Felicia will find you once you ditch the cops and tell you Venom is on the jumbotron in Times Square and Rhino is attacking some science facility. You stop by times square to find Venom bragging that he's kidnapped Mary Jane Parker and he'll kill her in 24 hours. Felicia tells Peter to go ahead, but Peter refuses and says they'll deal with the Rhino first and then he'll find Mary Jane. When you arrive at the science facility, you're too late, the heist is complete, but Rhino is still breaking stuff. He sneak attacks BC and knocks her out, leading to you fighting him alone. In what is certainly the most common way to beat a character like the Rhino now, you need to let him run by you and hit the exploding barrels or electric machinery to cause him big damage. simple boss, and the entire level. After Felicia is taken away by a fake ambulance (Peter doesn't notice because he's a moron), we cut to Peter telling Johnny Storm he has no idea where to find MJ, to which Johnny nonchalantly replies that Venom will find him and flies away (jerk).

Indeed Venom does find you, and so begins the longest level in the game. First you gotta chase Venom, then fight Venom in probably the hardest fight in the game?. Then you gotta chase venom into the sewers. Ride a subway car without falling off, chase him through the swers again, and eventually after like 10 sections (twice as many as any other level) you finally find MJ dangling over a water pit screaming for help (fun fact: Jennifer Hale voices both Black Cat AND Mary Jane). Now you gotta fight Venom while webbing switches off as Venom tuns them on or MJ will drown in a scene very reminiscent of the end of Spider--Man vs. the Kingpin. Venom can go invisible here, and will just fade in and out at various points in the level. He does give you an audio cue. If he's going for one of the four switches, he'll make a crack about Mary Jane being able to hold her breath or her yelling for someone to save her. If he's somewhere else, he'll say...other things. There respawning health and ammo token here, though there are little difficult to reach. Venom is tough, probably the toughest boss in the game, but Impact webbin is key. When he's in range fire off two blasts and he'll be knocked back with each one and fade out. You can just repeat that several times to win. MJ saved, Venom says he's sorry when Peter explains it couldn't have been him, because Eddie saw him in the crowd at the same time. Venom, here portrayed like a total idiot, finally understands and apologizes, even saving MJ when the chain breaks (idiot).

play this game so much as a kid alongside the 90s show this was my introduction to spider-man

[Alan2099]

Venom was a bit of an idiot on this game, but I loved his lines about "surfing the web."

[Huntsman Spider]

Venom was a bit of an idiot on this game, but I loved his lines about "surfing the web."

"Shut up, Brock!"

[Xenon]

Spider-Man 2: The Sinister Six
Platform: Game Boy Color
Year: 2001
Rating: 7/10
Notables: First Appearance of Kraven (yes, you read that right) First Appearance of...Aunt May?
Thoughts: Ok, I've just gotta start there, this is the 17th game featuring Spider-Man, not including the fighting games, and this is the FIRST APPEARANCE OF KRAVEN! They were making Spider-Man games since 1984 and a Lee/Ditko villain didn't arrive for 17 years and 17 games. That's crazy. I've been looking for him for a while so when he appears near the end here I was pretty happy. I mean, I don't love Kraven or anything, but crazy how absent he is in these games. Anyway, this is back to being a 2-D Maze Action Platformer. BAck down to just two buttons, this game actually controls quite well. You attack with one button and jump with the other. you can shoot a pretty effective web shot by quickly pressing attack and then jump, and double jumping shoots a web that lets you swing. You can actually just swing over the entirety of Kraven's level basically, and big parts of the others as well. The one you can't really do that at all in is the one set in the World Trade Center, so yeah, made in early 2001. Basically each level is set up so that there's some part you need to get to that will unlock the path forward and then there's the path forward. The route is not always clear. Sometimes you'll have to move past your final goal to get TO the final goal. Enemies are quite dangerous but not unfair. Bosses all have a unique pattern....but only one, which can be a bit of a problem. Once you figure out a technique to hit them without getting hit once, you've solved the fight and can just repeat the steps until they're defeated.



I have questions as to why this is called Spider-Man 2. Was it supposed to be a sequel to the PlayStation game? Like I guess so, it's the first (and only) GBC game, and the 4th for Game Boy so 2 doesn't work there at all. Just seems super weird, especially since there's another Spider-Man 2 for PlayStation that's next on the list. Weird. There a couple of other interesting things about this game. Some of the sound effects are odd when you beat a guy. Sometimes is a normal "BIff" or "POW" but sometimes it's "sSNAP" or something a little more ominous and it's better if I don't think about it. This is also the first time that Mary Jane is not on damsel duty (maybe because she was dead when this was being made.....) and instead ol' Aunt May gets the role. Which I think is her first appearance. It's definitely her first damsel role.

Overall this is just a solidly made game. Unfortunately I don't like mazes outside of ones you do on paper. It just is too frustrating for the relief of solving it to be worth it to me. So this one is kinda mixed for me. Or rather, if I hadn't watched a walkthrough I probably wouldn't have liked it. But the gameplay is responsive and fun and there are certainly a lot worse out there.



Next Up: Spider-Man 2: Enter Electro (22 to go...)

Venom was a bit of an idiot on this game, but I loved his lines about "surfing the web."

He goes from being this serious danger trying to murder Spider-Man's wife to this big dumb oaf and I love him lol.

[Xenon]

Oh, and just for Lukmendes, looks like Alt. Scorpion made it into another game....

[Xenon]

Spider-Man 2: Enter Electro
Platform: Playstation
Year: 2001
Rating: 7/10
Notables: First appearance of Hammerhead? I think....
Thoughts: Spider-Man was a late PS1 game, coming out in 2000, the same year as the PS2. It felt a little bit like a greatest hits Spider-Man title, really trying to fit in all the greats, even if the story was a little scattershot. Like Venom's whole episode kidnapping Mary Jane is the longest level in the game and it has nothing to do with the main plot it's more of an excuse to shoehorn Eddie and MJ into the game. BC is in the game all over but she doesn't really....do anything? She's the tutorial character but she's basically a cameo. You have to save Jonah from the Scorpion just because again, trying to fit people in. And of course the final boss is a mixture of Doc Ock and Carnage for something really wild. Spider-Man 2, meanwhile, feels much more standard. Like just another episode. But this is based on a comic book character so that works fine. Not every issue has to be an event. Unfortuantely for Spider-Man 2, not many people seem to have played it, which I would blame on its late release more than anything, being a new PS1 game in 2001, the year of the PS2, was not exactly doing you any favors. And this was late 2001, October. Honestly I'm surprised it came out at all. The final boss takes place on top of the World Trade Center, which as we all know, was no longer a place that existed in October of 2001. Considering how many things were pushed back out of respect for that tragedy, it's a little surprising this didn't get pushed even further for a last minute redo of the last level. But being so late I guess Activision just didn't care and figured it was the end of the game so most people wouldn't notice, which seems to be true. On to happier notes....



This one is pretty unique in that it's a story that built around and centered on Electro, one of Spidey's most neglected villains. There's some device that can turn a normal person's electrical energy into enough power to power a building or something like that. Short version, it's a device that enhances natural electrical current, which for Electro is a big deal. The device is spread around some places though, so Spidey is chasing Electro around through the copius use of Spider-Tracers and beating various bad guys around the city in the process. Shocker, Sandman, Hammerhead, Lizard, and of course, Electro join us to be bosses, and each one has a gimmick you need to exploit, though tend to be pretty easy once you do. In general the gameplay is pretty similar to the last one, but there's been an effort to increase the variety in the stages. There are ground stages where you need to hunt down enemies, there's one where you have to find keys for a bomb, one stage is just a vertical climb while you avoid electric blasts, that one's pretty good. A couple fall flat though. There's one where you ahve to stop a plane from crashing and the camera just isn't up to the job to do all the complicated stuff you need to do. There's one where Sandman is pursuing you while you chase a train and it's more annoying than fun, but outside of those two it's mostly a fine experience. If you liked the first PlayStation Spider-Man game and haven't played this, then you absolutely should. It's a slightly improved experience that's at the same time slightly worse in parts. It's inconsequential but fun.

Little notes, Instead of comic covers you get Daily Bugle issues in between some stages. Beast takes over from Felicia on tutorial duty and I guess Rogue is in the training room this time? Along with Professor X. The endings continue the previous game's trend of the villains playing poker in jail, and this game's villains see the previous game's villains in a cell next door. Though Spidey doesn't get to play with other heroes this time, just read the Bugle give Thor credit for beating Electro.




Next Up: Spider-Man: Mysterio's Menace (21 to go...)

[Xenon]

Spider-Man: Mysterio's Menace
Platform: Game Boy Advance
Year: 2001
Rating: 7/10
Notables: First appearance of Big Wheel
Thoughts: This is another game I didn't know existed. At one time my plan was to just play the 3-D Spider-Man games. So Starting with that 2000 PlayStation one and go from there. I got a little more ambitious primarily because of Maximum Carnage and wanting to finally get that one done after twenty five years. And honestly, if I haven't been clear, most of these games have been pretty bad. THere were basically five or six that I think are generally worth playing out of about 17ish games made before the PlayStation Spider-Man. It's like a 35% pass rate. I can get some amusement out of them purely as a Spider-Man fan, it's just neat to see who they used and how they were expressed. To see who's popular and who's not. Kraven? Almost nonexistent. Mysterio? Pretty common. And here we have Mysterio with his own caper, Mysterio's Menace for the GBA. I described Enter Electro as just anther episode feeling, and this is kind of im play here too. At least from a story perspective. The story starts with MJ calling Peter and asking for him to pick up a fishbowl because she forgot to get one and she won gold fish at the amusement park. A bit of a goofy request, but if you think about it for a moment you know exactly what joke they're going to end the game on. Peter is interrupted though by a news report of holograms throughout the city causing trouble. So Spidey swings into action to solve the problems the city is facing.

Right away Mysterio's menace is a bit different. These is no stage one, there is a map, where you're able to select from one fo three different stages. Beating each of those stages will unlock another one, for six total before the final stage. Going further, there are actually upgrades for Spider-Man hidden in each level. You can increase your web fluid capacity, improve it, unlock impact webbing, reduce it usage, and find different suits to protect you somewhat from fire, electricity, and bullets. None of these are strictly necessary, but they defeinitely make your life easier. This is especially true of the last upgrade, the Symbiote suit, which regenerates health but isn't found until the final stage and you have to make some pin point swinging to get through a hall of deathtraps to get it. Don't misunderstand, this isn't some kind of Spider-Man RPG, and of course later games will have much more in the way of upgrades, but this little taste shows a lot of ambition. Honestly, while my dislike for mazes in 2-D games still applies, this is probably the best 2-D Spider-Man game to date. The action is good, you even get a shield by pressing L and R and the same time. You have enough combat options, you move well, you control well, this is pretty slick overall. Pre and post mission you get nicely drawn cutscenes that frame the action and the graphics are good. There's even some mission variety. In the night club you need to rescue hostages and the Museum requires you to find Ninjas who have stolen artifacts, while the chem lab makes you hunt down laser control boxes to progress to reach the boss. Villain wise we've got Rhino, Scorpion, Hammerhead, Electro, of course Mysterio, and, something I thought I'd never see....THE BIG WHEEEEEEEEELLLLLLL!!!!!!



The deep cuts are so appreciated, lol. So you beat the six stages and you unlike this creepy abandoned amusement park. The enemies here are a major pain, from the clowns and their giant hammers to the skeletons and their propensity to fall apart and make you wait them out. Enemy AI in this game is actually pretty decent. If an enemy notices you crawling up the wall to their platform, they will edgeguard like a Melee player. Just sit at the corner and wait to hit you as you climb up, knocking you off. Highly annoying, but well, pretty old school too. This is true of every level, but the durability and strength of these last level enemies really make a point of it. Once you successfully navigate through this level, you'll come up against ol Fishbowl head (yes that's the joke) himself, Mysterio. Far and away the hardest boss in the game, he has long portions of invincibility and can turn into the other bosses Fortunatley, I had the symbiote suit, so I could weather the storm. Defeating him ends with him getting away, and of course, with Peter taking his helmet home to fulfill his husbandly duties.

Mysterio is my favorite Spider-Man villain and he's perfect for Video games, so it's no surprise he shows up so often. Him getting his own game is quite fun for me, and it helps that this is probably the best game over all in the 2-D space. Maximum Carnage and War of the Gems being the closest competitors. A really fun little game that's worth playing for any Spider-Man fan.


(Obvious joke but....I still like it)

Next Up: Spider-Man...THE MOVIE! (20 to go...)

[Xenon]

Also, once again that weird Scorpion costume is the one used. Funny how the timing just caused such a short lived suit to be in no less than THREE Video games.

[Pav]

Oh, and just for Lukmendes, looks like Alt. Scorpion made it into another game....

As far as I know, we never did figure out who gave Gargan this particular power-up. As a kid reading that backup story for the first time, I remember thinking that maybe it was the Black Tarantula somehow combining the Venom symbiote with Gargan's Scorpion technology.

-Pav, who can't imagine we'll ever get an answer...

[Frontier]

They also used that Scorpion design for the game adaption of the first movie:



They basically rebooted him in the third game too.

[Alan2099]

I feel that costume got used in games more than it ever did in the comics.

[Xenon]

Spider-Man
Platform: Playstation 2, Gamecube, Xbox, PC
Year: 2002
Rating: 6/10
Notables: Firs movie adapation game? I guess? Second Kraven appearance but only in a secret level I didn't get? First game with GG as the final boss.
Thoughts: Before I played this I figured it was time to rewatch the original 2002 Raimi Spider-Man movie. I rewatch movies very rarely and I have to like them quite a bit to even consider it, but I hadn't seen Spider-Man for like 20 years. It's the only Spider-Man movie I didn't get to see in theatres. My family were pretty cheap about going to the movies and I coudln't convince my parents at the time, so I didn't get to see this until later on. And you know I'm not actually sure if I ever saw it all the way through or just forgot? I know I saw most of it, I saw the ending and the lab scene and the thanksgiving scene and well, most of it. but there were definitely parts that I just didn't remember at all. Now, of course, it's been twenty years almost since I saw it and I definitely only saw it once or just on TV but I'm a little embarassed. I forgot? WEll, fortunatley I've seen every single other one in theatres so no chance of a repeat but yeah, I watched Spider-Man, and yeah, it's still really good. The interpersonal drama is super cringey and embarassing but these are 18 year olds of course it is. It's also funny how not themselves I'd argue the characters are? Dunst does a good job of subtly showing MJ's two sided-ness, which I liked, but she lacks the comics versions false bravado. And Peter has taken all of his actual bravado and swallowed it because man is he MEEK in this lol. Harry must have stolen it all because again, unlike his comic counterpart James Franco has charm and confidence, but also feels like a creep. And Willem DaFoe, man, I am so happy they got him back for NWH because I just love the guy. I see him and I want to side with him. I want to tell Peter to join the GG, it's fine, DaFoe is a cool guy! And of course he looks insane and ugly and manacing when in Goblin mode. You can definitely feel the Ultimate influence in this movie overall, and you can tell they're trying to hit the high points because they're not sure they're going to get to do this again, but overall it comes together well and works.

Wait a second.....oh, right, the game. This is one I'd actually played before, an occasion previously reserved for Maximum Carnage and the Capcom fighting games but will soon be a more common occurrence. I have a greatest hits version for Gamecube, I'm pretty sure it was a Christmas Gift? I don't really remember. I probably didn't get to play it until a couple of years after it was out, but I definitely finished it at the time. This time I played the PS2 version because I haven't yet gotten my PC set up with my GCN Switchmote. now that I'd played the previous 2 console Spider-Man games, you can definitely see their DNA in this one. It really is more like the third game in that series. Controls are the same (by default), powers are the same, structure is like Enter Electro. But now things are prettier and more advanced and...kinda worse? I don't go back to this particular era of games that often, or rather, when I do, It's to play RPGs, which made the transition to 3-D much smoother than other genres. Selecting commands from a menu doens't require learning whole new ways to program controls, after all. As a result I had kind of forgotten how much better the industry has gotten at, well, so many things. Like I'm a big retro game guy, and there are absolutely tons of older retro games that hold up fine. But there was definitely a difference between devs that got it and devs that didn't quite and here was see one that didn't quite have it all down here. They're definitely getting better at it, and the dual analog control helps, but it's still not quite there in controls and camera and just the way 3-D combat is designed. But it's definitely better at it than the PS1 games, so why is it worse? Well because of ambition. Spider-Man doe sa lot of things and sometimes it's just not prepared to do them well. This leads to a game with wild difficulty spikes where some levels are tirival, some are ok, and some are incredibly difficult. Just so many guys with guns that will shred you in seconds in open combat. And like, ok, i've beaten all the souls games, I finishe DMC1-3 and all three 3-D Ninja Gaidens I'm not against hard stuff but this felt more random than a test of skill. The lack of a defensive option, a block, a dodge, something along those lines, really puts the hurt on. As does the lack of group attacks. These are little things, and at the time I probably wouldn't have noticed them, but coming from the future its hard not to. One stage requires you to fight a giant mecha, who has a giant laser it can fire an unlimited amount as long as your in front of it (you HAVE to be in front of it to destroy some of the shield generators). The tooltip before the level said the robot is powerful but slow and I have to use my agility. The tooltip lies. that thing is way faster than me, and it was basically luck that I was able to avoid it on my winning run. The Goblin fights are also really anoying because GG can just...duck and become invincible? AT any time? And follows it up with a throw? And it's justwe didn't know how to design 3-D combat in a fun and challenging way yet. So it's awkward and unfair and not that fun. But not all the time. They do put a lot of effort in to the combat, givng Spider-Man a bunch of combos that justify his two attack buttons finally. So it can be fun, but it can also be very frustrating.



Story wise this is basically what you would expect, an adaptation of the movie, with some additions and changes. Of course they cut out all the PP stuff outside of the first level, but then they added in a Bank Robbery featuring the Shocker and Vulture, and then a mission with a paranoid Scorpion and finally there's a secret level with Kraven that I didn't get. There's also an additional few levels wher eyou infiltrate Oscorp and have to neutralize their chemical weapons...actually this game doesn't follow the movie barely at all, lol. Like sure, the beginning kinda does, the end kinda does, but even there, the final showdown with GG, you just pick up MJ and set her down in front of the cops, then fight GG on the bridge. Then Peter acts like he's gonna tell MJ but she implies she knows who Spidey is and they kiss. ON the birdge. Like really having just watched the movie almost nothing is the same. Even the reason he kidnapped MJ is different, it's because his drones snapped a pic of MJ kissing Spidey on the cheek after he rescues her during the festival. But hey, they got Bruce Campbell to do the training dialogue. More games should do that. Dude's funny. So that's something.

Honestly I expected to be more positive on this than i was, I can't really recommend it. The next one is the one with all the hype (which I also haven't played in 20 years so.....) but this one is kinda meh. It's not horrible or anything, but there are just better options now that make it pretty low on the list of Spider-Man games to play, I think (I mean, not worse than some of that old game boy crap, come on).



Next Up: Spider-Man 2: THE MOVIE! (19 to go....)

I feel that costume got used in games more than it ever did in the comics.

Seemigly. It's one of those timing things where he just had it at the right time for it to get adapted a bunch.

[The Overlord]

Spidey has a decent video game career. Better than say Superman.

[Alan2099]

Spidey has a decent video game career. Better than say Superman.

Other than (maybe) Batman, Spider-man has probabaly had a better history of videogame adaptions than any other single superhero, although the X-men have had quite a few good ones as well.

[Xenon]

Spider-Man 2
Platform: Playstation 2, Gamecube, Xbox
Year: 2004
Rating: 8/10
Notable: First open world Spider-Man game
Thoughts: While I have no more shameful confessions to make about the movies, I did rewatch Spider-Man 2 in preparation to play this game, and it's left me with quite a few thoughts. This is the first time I've actually sat down and watched the whole thing since seeing it in theatres in 2004. I'd always held it as the "best" of the Spider-Man movies but my position was a little shaky as I hadn't actually seen it in so long I worried my more mature eyes would find more fault in it or my increase in Spider-Man knowledge would lead to more disappointment.

But no, Spider-Man 2 is the GOAT when it comes to Spider-Man movies. The first Spider-Man is very good, but it understandably has to spend a lot of time on stuff that isn't really him being Spider-Man. You have to establish who the characters are and their relationships before you can get to the meat of the movie. The entire high school segment of Spider-Man 1 feels kind of perfuctory, something they felt like they had to do before they got to the movie they wanted to make. SM2 has no such problems. It's got a story to tell and it can tell it right away. There's plenty of Spider-Man action and fun to be had, and while there are a lot of different plot threads going on they all work with each other to form a coherent story with themes. The first Spider-Man is a movie that's not really about much other than how Spider-Man came to be, the second Spider-Man is about dreams and responsibilities and sacrifice, and it pulls that off very well. Alfred Molina absolutely steals the show, and is basically magnificent throughout every scene he's in. While I havne't seen Spider-Man 3 is so long, I do wonder if this factor is why so many of the later Spider-Man movies haven't had quite the same level of critical success. Willem Dafoe and Alfred Molina are fantastic and fun. They lend their significant talents to a sillier project but treat it with exactly the right level of seriousness. They're taking it seriouslly AND their cheweing the scenery because that's who the role demands. But while Dafoe is a bit hamstrung by the script's need to do a lot of things, Molina is instead given lots of time and lots to work with. I'll just say it, this is the best version of Doc Ock....period.

The other thing Spider-Man 2 made me really think on is the darkness of a story and the value in that darkness. I think in the modern post-OMD era, a lot of fans say things like "why can't he be happy" or soemthing like that, and I think it's a slightly off complaint. Spider-Man 2 is relentlessly brutal to Peter throughout basically the whole film. He loses his job, he is forced to repeatedly turn down the girl he loves as she throws herself at him, his best friend rages at him, the girl he loves gets engaged to another man while Peter is working the event (and oh yeah, he didn't even know she would be there). Aunt May at one point walks away from him as he exposes himself as partially responsible for Uncle Ben's death, he's constantly being hounded for the rent, he's going to fail his college course, nothing goes right for Peter in this movie. But there's a point to it. And when Peter rises up and reaccepts his powers you feel the sacrifice he's making doing so. That's the point to the darkness, to build the character into this beacon of light in that darkness. And in the end, he wins over the villain and saves the day. AND, because the film understands that happy endings are generally superior, MJ comes to find him in the end anyway, because while doing good is its own reward, you should still get to win if you try sometimes.

Speaking of, Raimi MJ is apparently a thing people like to complain about, but honestly....I'm not seeing it. Like in the first movie she's a dumb teenager with a crap homelife and she's...fine. Yeah she's not that into Harry when they date and yeah she definitely decides she prefers Peter or Spider-Man, but like, so what. Yeah she probably shouldn't have kissed him but he did save her. And while she is dating Harry they aren't living together or engaged or have made some long committment to each other. They're dating. They're seeing if they like each other. Turns out she likes him less than he likes her. Now, she's a little worse in SM2, but I don't really know what she's supposed to do. Ok, sure, John gets to complain that she led him along, but its not like that was intentional. The man she wanted turned her down, and while she did make herself available to him repeatedly with hopes he'd take it, he doesn't, so she tries to move on. And while she probably should have decided sooner, sometimes it just takes that long to look over the precipice and decide you can't make the leap. She's fine. Also, even though she's ineffective, I like that she tries to take a swing at Otto. Give her a little of that fire.