Immortal X-Men #13 - Review/Spoilers

[Til]

2.) A recent issue of Duggan's X-Men had Jean saying that Krakoa's magic biotech drugs are sold at a loss; here we have Emma implying that's definitely not the case. Duggan retcons to make Krakoa more cuddly and palatable; Gillen retcons the retcon. I approve.

This is 100% a retcon by Gillen, not Duggan. It was established early on that Krakoa is self-sustaining. The mutants provide enough sustenance to Krakoa for it to grow food, water and shelter for every mutant there. That's kind of the whole point. Krakoa is the perfect place for a mutant nation because they don't have to rely on the outside world. Selling the medicine was just to attain political goals: legitimacy from other countries, immunity for mutants, etc. It's always been the case that the medicines are purely a benefit for Krakoa, not something they rely on.

Then we have this issue, where Gillen says that Krakoa is NOT self-reliant, and instead is absolutely dependent on sales of the drugs, and without them the nation will collapse in a few months. It's a retcon that takes away one of the foundational aspects of Krakoa in order to push momentary peril. I'm surprised Gillen did it, he's usually better than that.

[Diammandis]

Double post

[Diammandis]

With the reveal that the QC will be demolished and democracy replace it, I wonder if MR is going to cash in those thank you's that Storm gave on behalf of Krakoa to shake up the first democratic vote. As Mother Righteous once said, "Democracy has been known to be a wobbly old girl." Krakoa the island isnt all seeing, but, he did literally snatch Doug right after they voted for the abolishment of the QC

This is 100% a retcon by Gillen, not Duggan. It was established early on that Krakoa is self-sustaining. The mutants provide enough sustenance to Krakoa for it to grow food, water and shelter for every mutant there. That's kind of the whole point. Krakoa is the perfect place for a mutant nation because they don't have to rely on the outside world. Selling the medicine was just to attain political goals: legitimacy from other countries, immunity for mutants, etc. It's always been the case that the medicines are purely a benefit for Krakoa, not something they rely on.

Then we have this issue, where Gillen says that Krakoa is NOT self-reliant, and instead is absolutely dependent on sales of the drugs, and without them the nation will collapse in a few months. It's a retcon that takes away one of the foundational aspects of Krakoa in order to push momentary peril. I'm surprised Gillen did it, he's usually better than that.

Makes me wonder why Gillen decided to retcon this, it seems honestly pointless, I think Krakoa losing its power of legitimacy and immunity for its citizens would still pack a punch and be an effective way to show that Krakoa is falling

[Havok83]

This is 100% a retcon by Gillen, not Duggan. It was established early on that Krakoa is self-sustaining. The mutants provide enough sustenance to Krakoa for it to grow food, water and shelter for every mutant there. That's kind of the whole point. Krakoa is the perfect place for a mutant nation because they don't have to rely on the outside world. Selling the medicine was just to attain political goals: legitimacy from other countries, immunity for mutants, etc. It's always been the case that the medicines are purely a benefit for Krakoa, not something they rely on.

Then we have this issue, where Gillen says that Krakoa is NOT self-reliant, and instead is absolutely dependent on sales of the drugs, and without them the nation will collapse in a few months. It's a retcon that takes away one of the foundational aspects of Krakoa in order to push momentary peril. I'm surprised Gillen did it, he's usually better than that.

and its one that doesnt really make sense given the power that Krakoa has with its mutants

[RAWRlrus]

Yeah, the financial situation doesn't make sense. I think its to add to the severity of the situation but it doesn't work. Krakoa being sick because of how the citizens are concerned with what the Council is doing makes sense for needing the council to be dissolved. But dissolving the council doesn't do anything about improving their international standing. Plus I don't think they could lean too heavily into SoS being revealed to cause political issues because that's Orchis' plan. I think it might just get ignored, possibly like the issue with the Sinister Genes because they'll have the same issue with anyone who gets elected.

[Kingdom X]

Yeah, the financial situation doesn't make sense. I think its to add to the severity of the situation but it doesn't work. Krakoa being sick because of how the citizens are concerned with what the Council is doing makes sense for needing the council to be dissolved. But dissolving the council doesn't do anything about improving their international standing. Plus I don't think they could lean too heavily into SoS being revealed to cause political issues because that's Orchis' plan. I think it might just get ignored, possibly like the issue with the Sinister Genes because they'll have the same issue with anyone who gets elected.

Yup. Ultimately it seems like the X-Office decided that EVERYTHING has to go wrong to make Fall of X have an impact. Feels like they should have picked two or three and really developed it. Instead we have poisoned drugs, SoS reveal leading to mistrust of drugs and resurrection, framed terrorist attack on the UN, an attack on the Gala, dissolution of the council, AND apparently the whole country bout to go broke.

[NewMutant]

I'm not a fan of Krakoa going broke. Or not seeing the public reaction to SoS (unless I missed it elsewhere).

However, the dissolution of the QC and Krakoa putting Cypher in a safe place are great steps to the Gala!

[Grunty]

And that's the thing. A democracy, in terms of how it's run in the Western states where most of its members are from, wouldn't run a whole lot differently than that. The QC would still be the QC. The difference would be that the members of the QC would be chosen by the populous as opposed to Charles, Mags, and Moira. But, in practice, I don't think it would run a lot differently.

To be fair no form of government real or fictional will ever function perfectly, flawed or at all if the writer(s) don't want them to do so and vice versa for those they do want to function in these regards.

A writer can make monarchies, dictatorships and democracies crumble to dust by their logical flaws and then present a government where everything is decided by 6 year olds who are chosen based on who can hold their breath the longested as the most ideal and utopic form of goverment, leading humanity to a new golden age of prosperity and peace...

All that matters is how the governments work into the story and how much the readership is willing to accept the explanations and implications on why one works and the other doesn't.

Which is also why even sci-fi and fantasy writers will tend to favor established and known forms of governance for the fictional nations over more esoteric or exotic forms, unless the whole point of the story is presenting those as better or showcase their logical flaws for dramatic effect.

Because their readership will be aware of how those work and understand their advantages and flaws easily, which makes creating stories in their world easier.

Another advantage of flawed governments over "perfect" ones is the sweet sweet "conflict" that can created to make the story more interesting, even if the heros side is intendet to be idealized or better than what currently exists.

However in case of the Quite Council, it seems obvious that the writer didn't design it to just be flawed for the sake of conflict, but to never really work longterm at all and just end in disaster.

And this is also why most action adventure stories tend to keep the heros out of the government or only create one or two focus characters who exist to give the reader/viewer an inside into what is happening on that front while the heros do their usualy action business.

and its one that doesnt really make sense given the power that Krakoa has with its mutants

Once again this is the problem of Hickman putting all the eggs in the basket for the mutants, so they can become this dominant seemingly unstoppable force, only for a writer or direction shift to suddently demand that they had to be on defensive or the underdog again, without the eggs being one for one removed again first.

This is also why Orchis and co. still don't feel like they "earned" the right to be presented at such "worthy" nemesis to the mutants.

[Frobisher]

If the resurrected council members couldn’t vote because they might be compromised, why let all the resurrected citizens of Krakoa have a vote?

[Devaishwarya]

Yup. Ultimately it seems like the X-Office decided that EVERYTHING has to go wrong to make Fall of X have an impact. Feels like they should have picked two or three and really developed it. Instead we have poisoned drugs, SoS reveal leading to mistrust of drugs and resurrection, framed terrorist attack on the UN, an attack on the Gala, dissolution of the council, AND apparently the whole country bout to go broke.

And this this what I meant about too many ingredients in the pot.

[Outburstz]

Yeah idk what that whole Krakoa going broke thing matters while on Krakoa. Maybe for mutants outside business that's a problem but the only thing Krakoa needed was to feed on mutants psychic life span or something like that.

Also I'm glad that Xavier acknowledged that he is alone in the idea of mutants being human.

[RAWRlrus]

Yup. Ultimately it seems like the X-Office decided that EVERYTHING has to go wrong to make Fall of X have an impact. Feels like they should have picked two or three and really developed it. Instead we have poisoned drugs, SoS reveal leading to mistrust of drugs and resurrection, framed terrorist attack on the UN, an attack on the Gala, dissolution of the council, AND apparently the whole country bout to go broke.

I don't mind everything go wrong (other than the financial aspect) as it can amplify the sense of impending doom, its just that things are too rushed IMO. We don't see anything about the SoS reveal other than the part with Emma. Give it time to breathe and see further consequences (maybe have First Strike happen after the Sinister reveal so there's additional dislike towards mutants showing up, have this too be part of why Krakoa is getting sick). Have the QC dissolved for the same reasons it has now, and with this information maybe MR or Selene informs Orchis. Then Orchis can do the poisoned drug reveal and have people from the X-Men team be the ones to go in front of the UN to defend Krakoa and try to make things better. Then you have the fake Captain Krakoa terrorist attack on the UN to isolate the country politically. Orchis can work with countries to get more power to go after mutants (kind of similar to what the Alpha Flight mini looks to be about) because of everything that's happened so far. The Mutants hold the Gala to try and improve diplomatic relations but Orchis attacks because they are at their weakest.

Instead we have four issues of build up X-Men 23 to show that the Stark Sentinels are dangerous, X-Men 24 to show that the team is having some issues, Immortal 12 to reveal the SoS timeline and Immortal 13 to dissolve the QC and turn Krakoa into headless chickens before the attack happens.

I am curious though to see how many/what other countries show up at the Gala now that the SoS timeline has been revealed.

If the resurrected council members couldn’t vote because they might be compromised, why let all the resurrected citizens of Krakoa have a vote?

I'm split between not enough resurrections happening to truly impact the election (I wonder how many have happened since Sinister killed the four) and the QC being so untrusted that they can't really do anything other than step down and recommend elections.

[numberthirty]

So Krakoa isn't evil, but the Council is making it evil?

You are what you eat.

[Havok83]

If the resurrected council members couldn’t vote because they might be compromised, why let all the resurrected citizens of Krakoa have a vote?

How do you know they will?

[Chenpion]

Even though we don't know what the book will look like I'm hoping Exodus sticks around in this title because Gillen is so good with him. He was great in this as you said.

I also hope Selene stays in this book. Having her join the QC only for it to dissolve can't be the end of Gillen's story for her. That will not stand!

If not for her counterweight to the heaviness of the issue I'd probably be on the floor crying all day.



She was having a great time.

I dunno.

She gave me Sinister vibes.

I could see Gillen thinking... "Well, I've got Essex down in the Pit so where can I channel all that sass and flippancy that I'd want in this book? [snaps fingers] I know! Selene, you're it!"