X-Men Monday #210 – Orchis Monday

[RAWRlrus]

I can't see those Orchis uniforms and not think they're basically just red AIM.

I figured that was the point just spray paint over the old uniforms. Although its kind of funny, weren't AIM the smallest of the groups to make up ORCHIS?

[Kurolegacy]

Yupp. I would agree survival is close to the top but I would say revenge against mutant for having "betrayed her" is her primary motivation. After having her closest allies (Xavier and Magneto) turn against her/not follow her demands, then being depowered, then hunted and exiled from Krakoa, the Mutant Nation she helped create...she's definitely toting some hard feelings against mutants.

Now that she's T-M10 it's an easy guess she will absolutely side with OS and Nimrod to wipeout all of humanity but...I'm kind of hoping (against all hope) that she may end up being one of their saving graces. That would be a nice turn-around.

Given that the majority of her problems that led to her heel turn are solely on Mystique and Destiny, I can’t help but feel that the vast majority of her problems could be resolved if she just sat down and had a talk with Xavier rather than going all psycho and skinning people. Like, she thinks she was betrayed by Xavier and Magneto but we never got any actual answer on where the cancer had come from. And given the Phoenix Foundation, there’s no reason that she has to be an android. Moira’s current circumstances really only exist because of lazy and bad writing.

I can't see those Orchis uniforms and not think they're basically just red AIM.

At this point she's not even Moira.

Let’s be real, while cononically she’s always been Moira, Moira X has been so divorced from anything even remotely resembling Moira that for all intents and purposes, she never was.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Yeah, given how crap Orchis has been, and how much Krakoa has had to keep a death-grip on the Idiot Ball just to pump Orchis as a remotely believable threat, if Orchis actually does manage to do anything of significance it isn't going to make them look better, it's just going to make the mutants of Krakoa look even dumber and more passive, and, frankly, deserving of whatever spanking they get, for just letting Orchis bumble around as long as they have.

At one point, Xavier flat out claims that humanity will never be allowed to have a nuclear war, *because he won't allow it.* And Charles is just Jean's weak sister. Orchis is not a threat. Never has been. Never could be. And it just makes mutants (and the writers) look lazy to claim that they are.

DIdn't you know that the apple store in the MU sells psi blockers now... and not big clunky machines but to be integrated into business' suits, sun glasses and bathing suits...

[Dizzystarr]

Given that the majority of her problems that led to her heel turn are solely on Mystique and Destiny, I can’t help but feel that the vast majority of her problems could be resolved if she just sat down and had a talk with Xavier rather than going all psycho and skinning people. Like, she thinks she was betrayed by Xavier and Magneto but we never got any actual answer on where the cancer had come from. And given the Phoenix Foundation, there’s no reason that she has to be an android. Moira’s current circumstances really only exist because of lazy and bad writing.

Let’s be real, while cononically she’s always been Moira, Moira X has been so divorced from anything even remotely resembling Moira that for all intents and purposes, she never was.

Moira is just mad her little "Cure All Mutants" plan got thwarted by Destiny coming back and seeing her plan she's just being Petty. Since she can't "save them by curing them" she's just gonna kill them all for spite

[Micabe]

Moria's (Moria X) heal-turn on mutants and her own son seems a bit too surreal looking back on her history as a mutant Physician . Moreover, I am astounded that Moria (if she's indeed actively allied with Orchis) isn't openly providing the Orchis organization on-panel with secrets about the X-Men and Krakoa/Arrako in general.

Two X-Men Villains Just Became Powerful Enough To End The Krakoa Age

[RAWRlrus]

Moria's (Moria X) heal-turn on mutants and her own son seems a bit too surreal looking back on her history as a mutant Physician. Moreover, I am astounded that Moria (if she's indeed actively allied with Orchis) isn't openly providing the Orchis organization on-panel with secrets about the X-Men and Krakoa/Arrako in general.

Two X-Men Villains Just Became Powerful Enough To End The Krakoa Age

The heel turn makes sense, Moira only started working for mutantkind because Destiny told her that if she tried to go against mutants again she would kill her. But you bring up a good point about her telling Orchis about all o the big secrets.

[Devaishwarya]

As with all villains working together, I'm sure she only told them just what she wanted to reveal, keeping somethings to her herself. They may not be as stupid as the QC but those Orchis members still aren't sharing everything with each other. The Sinisters are seeking their own interests. And no one else knows OS and Nimrod's true plans.

[Micabe]

The heel turn makes sense, Moira only started working for mutantkind because Destiny told her that if she tried to go against mutants again she would kill her. But you bring up a good point about her telling Orchis about all o the big secrets.

As with all villains working together, I'm sure she only told them just what she wanted to reveal, keeping somethings to her herself. They may not be as stupid as the QC but those Orchis members still aren't sharing everything with each other. The Sinisters are seeking their own interests. And no one else knows OS and Nimrod's true plans.

Moria must have felt totally betrayed by all of Krakoa thus, I hold Raven and to a great extent Irene solely responsible for Moira MacTaggert's defection because if Raven hadn't secretly and deceptively resurrected Irene behind the backs of the Quite Council and then together premeditated the murder of Moria things might have gone differently... Then again, when one thinks about Karima Shapandar (also a former ally of the X-Men) part in all of this and her systems being corrupted and possessed by Alice MacAllister there maybe even more to this than previously though...

[Frontier]

The heel turn makes sense, Moira only started working for mutantkind because Destiny told her that if she tried to go against mutants again she would kill her. But you bring up a good point about her telling Orchis about all o the big secrets.

Well, in the context of the retcon that started al this. Which I still think basically made Moira a 100% different character.

[Dizzystarr]

Moria must have felt totally betrayed by all of Krakoa thus, I hold Raven and to a great extent Irene solely responsible for Moira MacTaggert's defection because if Raven hadn't secretly and deceptively resurrected Irene behind the backs of the Quite Council and then together premeditated the murder of Moria things might have gone differently... Then again, when one thinks about Karima Shapandar (also a former ally of the X-Men) part in all of this maybe not...

What about Moira's secret plan i don't see how/why she should get a pass just because Mystique and Destiny are shady Moira is even shadier with her secret "Cure all mutants plan" which was the ONLY reason she didn't want any precogs around in the first place so now onw would see what her true intentions for Krakoa from the get go were

[Micabe]

What about Moira's secret plan i don't see how/why she should get a pass just because Mystique and Destiny are shady Moira is even shadier with her secret "Cure all mutants plan" which was the ONLY reason she didn't want any precogs around in the first place so now onw would see what her true intentions for Krakoa from the get go were

Okay, so Moria developed what could be deemed a mutant cure... She didn't actively market it to baseline humans in some preconceived notion to destroy Mutantdom did she? The fact is some X-Gene-positive mutants are entitled to deny themselves powers not unlike some women who decide to undergo an abortion much in the face and hostility of anti-abortion activists.

Again, if the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants didn't attack her laboratory and threatened her to destroy her formula, Moria's so-called cure may have been beneficial to mutants whose powers were proved to be uncontrollable and absolutely detrimental to all life on Earth. Setting someone on fire changes them especially if they live... I'm just saying.

[RAWRlrus]

Moria must have felt totally betrayed by all of Krakoa thus, I hold Raven and to a great extent Irene solely responsible for Moira MacTaggert's defection because if Raven hadn't secretly and deceptively resurrected Irene behind the backs of the Quite Council and then together premeditated the murder of Moria things might have gone differently... Then again, when one thinks about Karima Shapandar (also a former ally of the X-Men) part in all of this and her systems being corrupted and possessed by Alice MacAllister there maybe even more to this than previously though...

But the plan was to remove Destiny from Cerebro because Moira believed Destiny to be a threat. Mystique and Destiny beat her to the punch, and we see the fallout when Emma lets the council know the truth about Krakoa. This wasn't something that Xavier and Erik came up with suddenly, this has been a long con with Moira at the head, even though people think she's gone.

Well, in the context of the retcon that started al this. Which I still think basically made Moira a 100% different character.

True.

What about Moira's secret plan i don't see how/why she should get a pass just because Mystique and Destiny are shady Moira is even shadier with her secret "Cure all mutants plan" which was the ONLY reason she didn't want any precogs around in the first place so now onw would see what her true intentions for Krakoa from the get go were

Yeah. Mystique/Destiny and Xavier/Moira/Erik were playing a game and the second team lost. Moira wanted them to remove Destiny from Cerebro to never come back(maybe). I don't think Moira has a leg to stand on about Destiny and Mystique trying to kill her.

Okay, so Moria developed what could be deemed a mutant cure... She didn't actively market it to baseline humans in some preconceived notion to destroy Mutantdom did she? The fact is some X-Gene-positive mutants are entitled to deny themselves powers much like some women who decide to undergo an abortion much in the face and hostility of anti-abortion activists.

Again, if the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants didn't attack her laboratory and threatened to destroy her formula, Moria's so-called cure may have been beneficial to mutants whose powers were proved to be uncontrollable and absolutely detrimental to all life on Earth. Setting someone on fire changes them especially if they live... I'm just saying.

That was explained by Destiny in HoX/PoX. Even if Moira's intentions behind the cure are pure, the outcome isn't. How long before someone gets their hands on it and starts forcibly curing mutants? Was that not a plot point in Rosencanny right before this?

[jwatson]

Yeah not a great look asking fans to submit questions only to play around with the answers. That said, a few things I found interesting in the responses:

Regarding Moira - "No offense to our AI allies here in Orchis, but as we are all united in siding with humankind, I don’t think they would disagree that she would have been better off being able to stay human rather than needing to resort to a robotic body." Hmm.

"Polaris has, I know, been missing following what I have heard is a depression she entered after the death of her father, the infamous terrorist and human-hater, Magneto — we may not know her whereabouts right now, but rest assured that we’d been preparing for needing to face Magneto, which is why the Stark Sentinels are fully magnet resistant — when she reappears, she will be no threat to them."

"Iceman is a special target — as one of the so-called “Omega-Level Mutants” (a name they give themselves to show, yet again, their focus on who is better than who), we have specific plans in place for going up against him and preventing him from enacting Mutantkind’s terrible agenda."

"Havok… well, Havok is a unique case as he is currently a resident of the Limbo Embassy, a fully recognized nation (to the extent another dimension can be called a nation) with which relations are currently stable. As long as they continue to offer this fugitive sanctuary, there is little we can do. If, however, he were to encroach on U.S. soil we would of course proceed to take him down with extreme prejudice as someone as dangerous as he is would demand."

I'm glad i skipped this one. this reads more condescending than humorous which makes me take another step back. and whotf is frank allen? And it makes no sense, krakoa was a recognized nation but that didn't stop orichis but now that matters. you know what, nevermind. lol

[Micabe]

But the plan was to remove Destiny from Cerebro because Moira believed Destiny to be a threat. Mystique and Destiny beat her to the punch, and we see the fallout when Emma lets the council know the truth about Krakoa. This wasn't something that Xavier and Erik came up with suddenly, this has been a long con with Moira at the head, even though people think she's gone.

True.

Yeah. Mystique/Destiny and Xavier/Moira/Erik were playing a game and the second team lost. Moira wanted them to remove Destiny from Cerebro to never come back(maybe). I don't think Moira has a leg to stand on about Destiny and Mystique trying to kill her.

That was explained by Destiny in HoX/PoX. Even if Moira's intentions behind the cure are pure, the outcome isn't. How long before someone gets their hands on it and starts forcibly curing mutants? Was that not a plot point in Rosencanny right before this?

I see your point and agree with it since Orchis can now circumvent Krakoan Bio-Tech and Trans-Gates... But, still setting Moria on fire as a precautionary warning under the "just in case" rationale is not a justifiable reason to kill her a'la Minority Report/Pre-Crime. That's enough to make even the most passive of pacifist vengeful.

Yeah. Mystique/Destiny and Xavier/Moira/Erik were playing a game and the second team lost. Moira wanted them to remove Destiny from Cerebro to never come back(maybe). I don't think Moira has a leg to stand on about Destiny and Mystique trying to kill her.

I do believe that course of action is commonly referred to as attempted murder and is punishable under the law on nearly every known civilized planet.

[cranger]

What about Moira's secret plan i don't see how/why she should get a pass just because Mystique and Destiny are shady Moira is even shadier with her secret "Cure all mutants plan" which was the ONLY reason she didn't want any precogs around in the first place so now onw would see what her true intentions for Krakoa from the get go were

A lot seems to get made out of an odd exchange between Moira and Destiny that mentions a cure, which is very strange because the same story made it known that before OS comes back and changes events in Moira's tenth life her plan was shown to be mutant domination over everything including dominions.

What is the truth? Who knows. My point? None of this matters to whoever the next writer is (if it even mattered to the past writer to make sense of it).