X-Sales Watch, 2k23 FoX edition

[Grunty]

Wouldn’t count on it. Sales information is generally considered proprietary data and most company don’t release anymore of it than they have to by law. Even the ‘bestseller’ lists released by sites like Amazon or kindle or whoever, are more of a marketing tool than a sales disclosure (bestseller lists can have more factors in their algorithm than just ‘sales’. Like weighting ‘dates’ and sometimes geographic regions, etc…) I obviously don’t know their algorithms, just general practices in sales.

There is also the issue of how the product reaches the customers which is overwhelmingly still through the middle men which are the physical and online stores, which is also were additional factors of "enticed" purchases or returns can come into play.

For example Marvel could claim a comic, which for simplicity only had a single cover version, sold out (meaning additional copies have to be produced via reprints) with 200,000 issues.

But these might only have been the copies sold to the distributors. Perhaps of these only 5000 were directly purchased by readers/buyers, of the remaining 195,000, 50,000 to went Amazon, 45,000 to other online shops and 100,000 went to physical stores, of which 20,000 were international ones.

However after say 6 months of the 50,000 issues sold to Amazon only 10,000 were purchased by their actual customers and 30,000 send back to distributor, retaining only a backup of 10,000 for purchases over longer time.

Similar among the other online stores perhaps only 15,000 were actualy purchased in the first 6 months and these shops react similary sending 20,000 unsold issues back, only retaining 10,000 spread among them as backup.

And when it comes to the physical stores, we have to consider the constant presence of bulk purchase deals ala: "If you buy 20 issues of low value comic Y, you can get a 10% discount on high profile comic X" which are much more impactfull for them than the big online stores like Amazon. So of the 100,000 purchased by the stores, perhaps 40% of those were purchased via enticement.

Finaly the stores might have only been able to sell 40,000 of these issues, with 40,000 send back to the distributor after remaining unsold for 6 months, with 20,000 remaining either because of contracts with the distributers (hence complaints like: "We have comic X rotting on our shelves") or as actualy backup.

So of the proclaimed 200,000 issues sold, only 70,000 were actualy purchased by the customers themselves within the first 6 months after publishing and therefor actual reflective of the comics success with the audience. The remaining 130,000 then remain in limbo either with the stores or the distributor.

The distributers who had recieved them back might rebundle them with newer comics and/or decrease their prices and the shops might do the same, with the most important factor being to "empty the stores", because of the upkeep involved.

Likewise someone might put a comic in a best seller list, but that is only in comparison to how many issues were sold in comparison to other titles, but isn't necessarily reflective of the "dead stock" that remains after the initial sales burst.

That's a great point and that's a lot of missing data. They ship internationally too. (...)

International publishing and distribution of american super hero comics like those of Marvel and DC are another interesting factor to consider in terms of a comics success, because of the major presence of local publishing companies which produce their own stock, rather than being reliant of buying and shipping from US based distributors like once Diamond or now Penguine Random House.

For example in Europe a company called Panini Comics holds the license to publish both Marvel and DC comics alike, which outside the UK are translated into local languages and then printed on site. However Panini seldomly if ever publishes single issue floppies. Instead they primarily only produce trades paperback versions which however are also bought by regular bookshops.

This however also means that many satelite titles might never see publishing at all because the management of Panini comics might be more picky about which titles they will bother to have translated and published.

Some satelite titles might only ever see publishing in europe when their stories are tied to major events, which will result in their respective chapters being bundled with "core title" issues in trades.

While there are specialized shops in many european countries which sell untranslated single issue "floppies" they import directly from the US, the audience for these is obviously even smaller than that in the US, because of different mentalities and tastes.

Infact the majority of such shops tend to be "fantasy and sci-fi" stores which are much more diversified in their products. So the newest "floppies" imported directly from the US might only be present in a few boxes in a corner or sold directly from under the counter, while the rest of the store is reserved by shelves with regular sci-fi and fantasy literature, mangas, posters, RPG system handbooks and merchandise, collectibles, european comics and the Panini paperbacks of Marvel and DC comics.

So in terms of success a particular comic might potentialy only sell 10,000 floppies internationaly, but the issue itself might end up in a paperback which sells over 1 million volumes internationaly a few months later.

[cranger]

Why are people so surprised that the chart that has always stated it samples from a super small percent of stores that use that specific POS system is exactly what we have always known? Everyone agreed at the beginning that the numbers were bogus (and don't start bringing in Amazon and their magical sales charts).

[myownlittleusername]

Here are some more sales "numbers", this time from a single comic book chain (two shops).

https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/commen..._got_into_the/

https://twitter.com/pulp716/status/1700507992456655092

About 58% of our X-Men subscribers have canceled their X book subscriptions in the past year. The majority of them have subscribed to X books for 10+ years.

In addition, G.O.D.S. is our lowest ordered Marvel 1st issue in the past 5 years.

Should be of similar usefulness as the other numbers in the thread.

[JB]

Why are people so surprised that the chart that has always stated it samples from a super small percent of stores that use that specific POS system is exactly what we have always known? Everyone agreed at the beginning that the numbers were bogus (and don't start bringing in Amazon and their magical sales charts).

The list of stores has never been known as far as I know and it's pretty eye-opening to see that some of the biggest, highest volume stores are not included. The numbers are even smaller than I thought.

[JB]

Here are some more sales "numbers", this time from a single comic book chain (two shops).

https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/commen..._got_into_the/

https://twitter.com/pulp716/status/1700507992456655092



Should be of similar usefulness as the other numbers in the thread.

This is the kind of information I find very interesting. It's only one chain as you mentioned but there's no better source than hearing from the shops themselves regarding the preorder and subscription activity of their customers. As one commenter on reddit said, Marvel Unlimited is a great value if you don't mind waiting a few months for new books.

[cranger]

I border on wishing the whole Krakoan thing never happened but one store saying 58% of their subscribers have canceled one particular title in the last year means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Like not just the matter of it being just being one store but how many people were subscribed, when did they drop it, did no one add it back on or jump on for the first time? There is absolutely no data and so no value in such a comment.

And Midtown being used in the ComicHub data would be worse because it would absolutely skew the numbers and make whatever sample size the data is using irrelevant.

[ZuLuLu]

The list of stores has never been known as far as I know and it's pretty eye-opening to see that some of the biggest, highest volume stores are not included. The numbers are even smaller than I thought.

The list of stores was always known, it is on their website Comichub stores

[EmeraldGladiator]

Grunty thanks for a reminder of how complicated getting actual numbers are and how phony most top seller lists are. That felt like trying to prove the illegitimacy of crypto and nft's. Basically so 10 readers of this thread can "say we talked to our lcbs" and produce a thread that is just as legitimate as the ones posted online. And when I say just as legitimate, I mean not legitimate at all. Well I guess no more beating my chest when a favorite book is doing good, or weaping when a book is doing bad, because I have no way of knowing.

[cranger]

Amazon is not selling new issues. Retailers are not basing orders on a six month sales window. A comic that 'sold' 200K through Diamond in past decades was easy to evaluate because the subsequent issues would drastically drop in sales and then level out and reflect an actual month to month interest as retailers are not in the business of ordering product that they are not selling and new issues are definitely seen as a product with a short expiration date.

No current sales charts work like Diamond anyway. Anything using ComicHub data is showing sales to customer by retailers. Even if Amazon was ordering a millions comics that would never sell it would not impact ComicHub sales charts at all. While ComicHub gets numbers from a relatively small number of stores the numbers are not the problem, the problem is the people making the charts are using a flawed method which favors books released earlier in the month.

Diamond sales and ComicHub sales are not the same and both would have value if the former still existed, and the latter was not lazily used fake monthly pay content.

[Alex_Of_X]

Wouldn’t count on it. Sales information is generally considered proprietary data and most company don’t release anymore of it than they have to by law. Even the ‘bestseller’ lists released by sites like Amazon or kindle or whoever, are more of a marketing tool than a sales disclosure (bestseller lists can have more factors in their algorithm than just ‘sales’. Like weighting ‘dates’ and sometimes geographic regions, etc…) I obviously don’t know their algorithms, just general practices in sales.

See, this is why i think they just might! Marvel would loooooove to splatter a big shiny "Certified #1 selling comic, suck its bats" sticker onto ASM.

[JB]

I border on wishing the whole Krakoan thing never happened but one store saying 58% of their subscribers have canceled one particular title in the last year means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Like not just the matter of it being just being one store but how many people were subscribed, when did they drop it, did no one add it back on or jump on for the first time? There is absolutely no data and so no value in such a comment.

And Midtown being used in the ComicHub data would be worse because it would absolutely skew the numbers and make whatever sample size the data is using irrelevant.

The store is saying subscribers cancelled their X-books, not just one title. "The majority of them have subscribed to X books for 10+ years."

This basically started last week when some shops were posting about G.O.D.S. and the low preorders they were receiving. C.B. Cebulski responded to Big Bang Comics and a discussion started with other comic shops posting their experiences. The shop above is adding to the conversation by posting what they're seeing with the X-Books.

The list of stores was always known, it is on their website Comichub stores

Thanks for the link!

[cranger]

The store is saying subscribers cancelled their X-books, not just one title. "The majority of them have subscribed to X books for 10+ years."

This basically started last week when some shops were posting about G.O.D.S. and the low preorders they were receiving. C.B. Cebulski responded to Big Bang Comics and a discussion started with other comic shops posting their experiences. The shop above is adding to the conversation by posting what they're seeing with the X-Books.

While I appreciate the additional context it does not change my opinion that this is not sales data. If we were in the general controversial takes thread or even the Fall of X thread it might be worth discussing but in a sales thread it does not add anything.

If this was a thread about GODS sales then some of this conversation on Twitter could be worth talking about. I have no interest in it and maybe my view matches what some shops are claiming but seeing that as being anything more than one other view out there that validates mine is nothing in the big picture. Marvel knows what pre order numbers are and at some point we will see how it does at the shops. We can look back and say some stores saw it coming or maybe that they were in the minority about handling it. Most likely we won't look back at it all is my guess.

[JB]

While I appreciate the additional context it does not change my opinion that this is not sales data. If we were in the general controversial takes thread or even the Fall of X thread it might be worth discussing but in a sales thread it does not add anything.

If this was a thread about GODS sales then some of this conversation on Twitter could be worth talking about. I have no interest in it and maybe my view matches what some shops are claiming but seeing that as being anything more than one other view out there that validates mine is nothing in the big picture. Marvel knows what pre order numbers are and at some point we will see how it does at the shops. We can look back and say some stores saw it coming or maybe that they were in the minority about handling it. Most likely we won't look back at it all is my guess.

I didn't post the links to the comic shop's statement lol. I was just responding to myownlittleusername.

Ultimately yeah, it's all about the preorder numbers as that's what Marvel uses to determine whether a title continues or is cancelled. To Grunty's point it's too convoluted and difficult to track sales otherwise.

[Uncanny X-Man]

G.O.D.S. will be an interesting one to watch. Launching a new IP at that high a price point, even with that creative team, sounds like pure greed to me, but we'll see in a few months if the strategy pays off. The book has been greenlit for 8 issues so far and the easiest measure of success will be to find out whether there's an issue 9 or not and also whether Hickman and Schiti stick around or hand it off to an inevitably lower-profile creative team.

With regards to the X-books, a single store or even a single chain's tweet is just anecdotal evidence. One store's experience is likely completely different from another. And yet, the Senior Editor who's been in charge of the X-books for the last 5 years has just been replaced, in a move likely to signal that Marvel isn't entirely happy with the X-line's sales... Brevoort's appointment speaks louder than all of these partial charts, as fun as they are to dissect and discuss.

[RAWRlrus]

G.O.D.S. will be an interesting one to watch. Launching a new IP at that high a price point, even with that creative team, sounds like pure greed to me, but we'll see in a few months if the strategy pays off. The book has been greenlit for 8 issues so far and the easiest measure of success will be to find out whether there's an issue 9 or not and also whether Hickman and Schiti stick around or hand it off to an inevitably lower-profile creative team.

With regards to the X-books, a single store or even a single chain's tweet is just anecdotal evidence. One store's experience is likely completely different from another. And yet, the Senior Editor who's been in charge of the X-books for the last 5 years has just been replaced, in a move likely to signal that Marvel isn't entirely happy with the X-line's sales... Brevoort's appointment speaks louder than all of these partial charts, as fun as they are to dissect and discuss.

I feel like G.O.D.S. is more likely to just get cancelled if it doesn't do well instead of being given to another team. Totally new characters, Marvel won't have a hard time just sweeping it under the rug. I also don't know if Brevoort taking over is because of poor sales or how long editors are normally are involved. White not being mentioned in the shake up and not appearing as much after the announcement is weird, but Brevoort could be coming over for non-sales related reasons. When Ike was still in charge the X-books got an editor who they put on books that they didn't prioritize.