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  1. #1
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Default Camelot Falls revisited

    Now that DC has collected Busiek & Pacheco's Superman run in a gorgeous new edition, I thought it was a good excuse to reread this epic, which I've never done.

    I remember digging this a lot, even though it felt like it got derailed when Johns & Kubert got majorly delayed in Action, which was meant to be the 'main' book with all the Big Events.

    The real draw here is, of course, Pacheco, who's art was a lot hornier than I'd remembered it being. The entire first issue revolves around Lois & Clark desperately trying to arrange a 'date night'.

    While the New 52 tried to recast Lois & Clark as sexy young people, the One Year Later era did a fine job of showing how youthful and ****able these two clearly are, thanks to Pacheco's aforementioned horniness.

    The second issue ramps that up even more with Grumpy Ren Fair Arion enjoying a naked threeway. Like I said, both Pacheco and Busiek were leaning hard into the cheesecake, which works pretty well despite the generally wholesome appearances the Superman family characters usually enjoy.

    I'm only three issues in, but the premise that Superman is delaying the inevitable and causing humanity's downfall to be even worse is an interesting one . particularly given all society has been through in the subsequent years. The dark apocalyptic future they flashforward to is the distant year of...2014. oOoOO.

    Has anyone else been revisiting this story recently? It reads mich better disconnected from the larger Superman family of books, which were spending a lot of time treading water until Johns & Kubert was ready to move forward with their story, which eventually became Johns & Frank.

    Honestly, I think Busiek & Pacheco's story feels more interesting because it's not really touching on any of the big villains. It's doing its own thing and that's working out much better.

  2. #2
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Not entirely recently. I mean I don't think cheesecake comes to mind lol. But thankfully I sort of ignored the story in regular comics and all my memories are of the collection. So I liked it a lot and it makes a fun binge with For Tomorrow. Maybe this weekend.
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  3. #3
    Incredible Member Knightsilver's Avatar
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    I enjoyed this run when I read it years ago. It was actually my favorite Superman book at the time.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Has anyone else been revisiting this story recently? It reads mich better disconnected from the larger Superman family of books, which were spending a lot of time treading water until Johns & Kubert was ready to move forward with their story, which eventually became Johns & Frank.
    It only reads to you in retrospect as disconnected, but stuff like chemo and lightray guest starring here were clear reference to all the stuff in Countdown (Death of New Gods and the Suicide Squad with Waller controlling Chemo), Didio was planning. I think it was pretty clear to be set up for bigger things (ex. Science Police, also whoever Mannheim was working for, Khyber, etc) but he got moved off the book for other projects like Trinity, which I think is a shame.

    Also if you read the story as a monthly there was a lot of delays between this and Johns with Kubert and it was a pretty clear case of Didio jumping the gun with One Year Later and not giving them enough time to finish more issues before shipping.
    Superman/Action and Batman all majorly delayed and had to have fill-ins or delayed shipping.

    The problem with this run is it was clearly intended as set up for bigger things, which never happened. If I remember he had plans to introduce Chloe Sullivan from Smallville into his book before abruptly leaving and being replaced by Robinson. Which is symptomatic of Didio and Idelson's handling of the Superbooks with writers having very short tenures on the ongoings before being fired for a new flavor of the week who are themselves fired. It's been a vicious cycle since Kelley left up until Bendis got the book and we don't even know if it'll continue with Williamson/PKJ.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 07-20-2023 at 06:10 PM.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I think Busiek posted at some point that the decision to move him from Superman so that he could focus on Trinity was correct one since it took lots of work.

    As for Camelot, I like parts of it, but to me it really lacks a third chapter that would close things a bit more.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Mantis-Ray's Avatar
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    Oh yeah I have Camelot Falls in my wish list.

    So its worth a read overall?

  7. #7
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    I love Camelot Falls, it's one of my favourites, but I've always felt the ending (an annual IIRC?) felt very abrupt and a little unsatisfying. It didn't really answer the questions being asked or address the proposed problem of Superman delaying the inevitable and perhaps, ultimately, making things worse.

    I'd have loved a sequel series a few years later but everyone moved on and it's probably way too late by now.
    "Has Sariel summoned you here, Azrael? Have you come to witness the miracle of your brethren arriving on Earth?"

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    Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    It is a great run of Superman, one of my favorites actually. With the first issue being one of my favorite one off Superman stories. It's fantastic. Up, Up, and Away paired with this run really some of the best 2000's had to offer.

    It - like a lot of Superman monthlies - reads a lot better collected than it did at the time. The delays took a lot of steam out of it and concluding it in an annual mushed it completely. Glad it got the Deluxe treatment, particularly after Pacheo's death.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I think Busiek posted at some point that the decision to move him from Superman so that he could focus on Trinity was correct one since it took lots of work.

    As for Camelot, I like parts of it, but to me it really lacks a third chapter that would close things a bit more.
    And wow was Trinity a sprawling epic with an intriguing examination of the titular Trinity as well as the DCU in general. The one weakness was the art as no one should have to shoulder that kind of production. HTF did they do it? It was competent and in some points brilliant even, but the pressure of that nightmare schedule definitely shown through.

    As for Camelot Falls, it is one of THE best Superman epics ever. Instant classic with some ENORMOUS ideas and insane sci-fi, which is how I like my Superman.

  10. #10
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis-Ray View Post
    Oh yeah I have Camelot Falls in my wish list.

    So its worth a read overall?
    The pre flashpoint era had a lot of stories designed to hit different demographics, like the bookstore crowd. I remember that before All Star caught on Camelot Falls seemed like *that* story, and it went so well with Birthright too.

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  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
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    The lingerie shots make this one a tough share with kids. I read this twice recently and I love the scale of the storytelling. Arion in the past, the prankster in the present, and Khyber in the future. That great shot of the Fourth World Bruno Mannheim. I love how Superman had to feed his mind and there is so much story packed in it. There is a post apocalyptic survival story tucked in and a new alien Frankenstein tucked in. Kurt Busiek just fits right in to the huge scope of Superman’s world. There seem to be a lot of explaining how Magic works with Superman. I just think they need to take away the “special “ weakness to magic. Magic can hurt Superman but Superman should be able to hurt magic.

  12. #12
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Still want a Busiek Superman omnibus, but I think I’ll pull the trigger and buy this to hold me over.
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  13. #13
    Astonishing Member The Frog Bros's Avatar
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    Just got both of the mini hardcovers myself actually (the one that was split in two volumes). Looking forward to revisiting it, haven't read it in a while. Wanted to get the new hardcover but it wasn't out at my shop yet.
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  14. #14

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    I read Superman: Camelot falls deluxe, and i am disappointed... I had high expectations because of Busiek's Secret Identity mini story. It is one of my favorite Superman stories of all times, but Superman: Camelot Falls was a mediocre read from start to finish. The story was built upon the nonsensical fact that there was this vicious circle that human civilization rise, prosper to some point and fall to dark forces and start again... And it went on like this over and over again, this was the way of the world in the story.

    Superman and other Super Heroes were stopping the dark forces and preventing fall of the civilization made those dark forces grow stronger and come back and in the end those dark forces would get so strong because Superman and other Super Heroes were preventing them from making the civilization fall for a very long time that they would end all humanity that there would be no restart for humanity. So to prevent this, an Atlantian Magician called Arion from 17 centuary or something time treveled to Modern day Metropolis of 2017 and warned Superman that he needed to stop saving humanity, let civilazation fall to dark forces and start again or otherwise it would be the end of humanity. And Superman fought with an Alien on the process who was found by the wrong people on earth and experimented upon since he was a baby. The Alien had super powers and almost as strong as Superman, ofcourse so he could be a threat to Superman... And The Alien was a what if Superman was found by the wrong people on earth case. Highlights of the run, Lightray and teenager New Gods appeared, Zatanna appeared and Phantom Stranger appeared in the story at some point. Carlos Pacheco's art was fine as well.

    Other than those appearances and Carlos Pacheco art, Yawn... It was a mediocre boring read felt like a waste of time. The fact that Busiek built the whole story on a universal fact which he made up which was impossible to buy into which was such a nonsense... So the entire book was doomed to fail from the begining. I give the Superman: Camelot Falls, a 5/10.

  15. #15
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Now that DC has collected Busiek & Pacheco's Superman run in a gorgeous new edition, I thought it was a good excuse to reread this epic, which I've never done.

    I remember digging this a lot, even though it felt like it got derailed when Johns & Kubert got majorly delayed in Action, which was meant to be the 'main' book with all the Big Events.

    The real draw here is, of course, Pacheco, who's art was a lot hornier than I'd remembered it being. The entire first issue revolves around Lois & Clark desperately trying to arrange a 'date night'.

    While the New 52 tried to recast Lois & Clark as sexy young people, the One Year Later era did a fine job of showing how youthful and ****able these two clearly are, thanks to Pacheco's aforementioned horniness.

    The second issue ramps that up even more with Grumpy Ren Fair Arion enjoying a naked threeway. Like I said, both Pacheco and Busiek were leaning hard into the cheesecake, which works pretty well despite the generally wholesome appearances the Superman family characters usually enjoy.

    I'm only three issues in, but the premise that Superman is delaying the inevitable and causing humanity's downfall to be even worse is an interesting one . particularly given all society has been through in the subsequent years. The dark apocalyptic future they flashforward to is the distant year of...2014. oOoOO.

    Has anyone else been revisiting this story recently? It reads mich better disconnected from the larger Superman family of books, which were spending a lot of time treading water until Johns & Kubert was ready to move forward with their story, which eventually became Johns & Frank.

    Honestly, I think Busiek & Pacheco's story feels more interesting because it's not really touching on any of the big villains. It's doing its own thing and that's working out much better.
    Death and decay are natural.That doesn't mean we go back to square one.Think about it we have has stone age,bronze age..etc.I don't really have an issue with those things

    I read it after watching batman begins . the story beats where quiet similar.So i found it redundant . That's another thing the whole thing of clark keeping on doing his thing decision was pretty predictable and uninteresting.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 12-09-2023 at 09:42 PM.
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