OUTSIDERS by Collin Kelly & Jackson Lanzing in November

[Bat-Meal]

Yeah, the casualness that Lanzing and Kelly are doing is really off-putting. In the last issue they effectively established that Kate was a chemistry major by way of one of her dumb quips. That's a fairly big thing to just drop in with no fanfare at all. And now apparently re-aging her up with that same casualness, which just makes her already-OOC immaturity even worse. They feel like they're tossing these characters around haphazardly over a concrete floor, just throwing in any random ideas they have with no regard for how they've existed in previous stories.

I'll probably have a read of the first two issues by the end of the month. I have a feeling that the series is probably fine for newcomers, but jarring for anyone already familiar with Kate and Luke.

So she’s Bruce’s age, isn’t that how it’s supposed to be

Presumably, although Bruce is supposed to be at least a year older. The issue is she keeps getting aged up and down, it gets confusing. Well, she's just had another age up so I guess in a year or two she's due to get aged down again.

"Former lover" I guess that's one way to refer to Nocturna...

The writing team's definition of "lover" is concerning.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

I'm wondering if Clayface being on the cover means they'll address what happened in Tynion's Detective Comics or if he'll just be a mook.

[red winter]

Kate doing anything with Bette? Heaven forbid .

Think it would be an excellent addition

[Frontier]

I'm wondering if Clayface being on the cover means they'll address what happened in Tynion's Detective Comics or if he'll just be a mook.

With these writers...probably a mook.

[Bat-Meal]

Hm, okay, as predicted - this series seems like it's aimed at newcomers. After an initial skim though, I don't mind it, it's fun.

It's a little jarring because the writers have changed the two pre-existing characters to suit their needs rather than adapt the script to suit the characters. But it' nowhere near as bad as the Andreyko run of Batwoman - neither of them have been character assassinated or hit with the villain stick, so I'm happy enough to see where this goes.

It's still an odd choice though, because I would have thought that most of the people who would want to pick up the series would be prior fans of these characters. But it seems I might be wrong in that assumption. I've been watching a few video reviews, and most of the people I've seen reviewing the series seem to be enjoying it and accepting it at face value. Which is fine.

If this series is a first intro to these characters for some people, then that's good, but it does mean some newer fans now believe Kate and Luke were trained by Batman (and stuff like that). Like seriously, this is going to be annoying going forward, because in #2 it gets reiterated again that they were trained by Batman. So I guess it's probably cannon now, since these books are cannon. It's also now cannon that Kate made herself wear a wig she hated all along until Luke told her she didn't have to, lol.

[Frontier]

Could've done without the Aquaman dissing.

[Mantis-Ray]

Could've done without the Aquaman dissing.

Its pretty dumb yeah. Like he doesn't kill these beasts for no reason, he only does so to protect them from innocents.

While it is sad that the creature kid is alone, that doesn't change the graveyard is compromised of savage murderous beasts.

[Bat-Meal]

Its pretty dumb yeah. Like he doesn't kill these beasts for no reason, he only does so to protect them from innocents.

While it is sad that the creature kid is alone, that doesn't change the graveyard is compromised of savage murderous beasts.

Well yeah, there are definitely some issues. Kate and Luke's hostility to anything Batman in #1 was weird too.

Kate's timeline in #2 is unclear.

"I was sent as part of a small contingent of West Point Cadets to observe the first naval group's response operation." Which implies she saw it early on, and also should be in her forties by now.

But then we get "We'd all heard the stories of the Enlil Triangle. It was...I was excited." Which suggests the storm had been going long enough for a legend to build-up about it by the time she went to see it - implying again that she's in her late twenties to early thirties which would be more consistent with recent continuity.

[Mantis-Ray]

Well yeah, there are definitely some issues. Kate and Luke's hostility to anything Batman in #1 was weird too.

Kate's timeline in #2 is unclear.

"I was sent as part of a small contingent of West Point Cadets to observe the first naval group's response operation." Which implies she saw it early on, and also should be in her forties by now.

But then we get "We'd all heard the stories of the Enlil Triangle. It was...I was excited." Which suggests the storm had been going long enough for a legend to build-up about it by the time she went to see it - implying again that she's in her late twenties to early thirties which would be more consistent with recent continuity.

I'd say its another indication of the book's apparent kinda snooty "too cool" attitude.

In that they are thumbing their noses at other heroes for being "violent thugs" while they are more intellectual explorers who "actually try to find nonviolent solutions."

Though we'll have to wait for more issues to see if this becomes a recurring things with them or not.

The cadets line in that page is funny cause is it standard practice to send cadets on this kind of dangerous mission?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I'd say its another indication of the book's apparent kinda snooty "too cool" attitude.

In that they are thumbing their noses at other heroes for being "violent thugs" while they are more intellectual explorers who "actually try to find nonviolent solutions."

Though we'll have to wait for more issues to see if this becomes a recurring things with them or not.

The cadets line in that page is funny cause is it standard practice to send cadets on this kind of dangerous mission?

Yeah, it's hard to take seriously a series that thinks itself 'too cool' for superheroes while exploring DC canon. Which, ya know, changes every other week.

[Caivu]

The cadets line in that page is funny cause is it standard practice to send cadets on this kind of dangerous mission?

Not in real life (apparently), but this does have precedence in the DCU, and for Kate specifically. I have a bigger issue with cadets, and not midshipmen, being sent to observe a Navy operation.

[Bat-Meal]

I'd say its another indication of the book's apparent kinda snooty "too cool" attitude.

In that they are thumbing their noses at other heroes for being "violent thugs" while they are more intellectual explorers who "actually try to find nonviolent solutions."

Though we'll have to wait for more issues to see if this becomes a recurring things with them or not.

The cadets line in that page is funny cause is it standard practice to send cadets on this kind of dangerous mission?

Which can work for Luke, but makes Kate an odd choice for such a team IMHO, but I suppose that's been addressed with the line about being done with "throwing the first punch." Of course, this series is 12 issues, so after the team disbands they'll return to the status quo and back to "throwing the first punch" regardless.

I feel like DC can't decide whether to incorporate Kate into the Bat-Family or keep her apart from it. Hence the flip flopping in and out and halfway measures, where she makes cameos but isn't fully involved in events, one foot in and one foot out. They should just make a decision and stick too it. The fanbase is torn on this too of course, with some wanting her fully in the family and others wanting her completely independent of Batman, so no doubt DC is attempting to pleases both groups.

[HsssH]

Are they really throwing the first punch when most of the time when heroes arrive villain has already started doing something villainous?

[Caivu]

Are they really throwing the first punch when most of the time when heroes arrive villain has already started doing something villainous?

Yeah, this is another of the book's weird stances. Adopting a blanket "violence is bad" stance for characters who have never thought that way and have no good reason to.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yeah, this is another of the book's weird stances. Adopting a blanket "violence is bad" stance for characters who have never thought that way and have no good reason to.

It's more odd given that they're doing the whole 'explorers' bit yet I doubt anything they do will be made public.