Do you think Hank Pym is dead 'PERMANENT'?

[AJpyro]

Hank is a character you could…kinda…try and align with the MCU version. It’s that or constantly refer to the slap.

I think Ewing will be bringing him back. And that’s all cool, but it depends what happens to him after. Maybe making him semi-retire and become of an advisor would benefit him more?

Or you could just not. Not everyone refers to when Peter Parker slapped MJ during clone saga.

[Kurolegacy]

I always can’t help but find it funny how Hank is basically tarnished by that one slap that was art error and yet we never hear anything about Reed or Peter despite the fact that they’ve both had a moment of slapping their wife (and in Peter’s case, while she was pregnant).

[Username taken]

To me it depends, on Al Ewing. He left the door open for Hank to come back (for the nth time) in the anniversary mini. He's writing a Wasp/Not-Vision book. Things are in alignment for Hank to return, but if he doesn't this time? Either he's Marvel's "Barry Allen" now, which sucks because Scott and Jan aren't used enough to fill the void in the same way as Wally and the effects of Hank's death was minimal compared to saving the multiverse, or his come back is going to seem completely random and impromptu without any build up at all after all the potential opportunities to bring Hank back in a natural way have been tossed aside because Mahvel Baybee!

Exactly.

Mark Millar being the edge-lord he is turned Pym into a totally abuse piece of sh!t partner.

It seems modern writers can't get away from all this.

[Nomads1]

Hank Pym is a failed superhero. His feature failed in the 1960s, and the Avengers title is the only thing that kept him in existence. Scott Lang is the better Ant-Man.
In the event of a relaunched continuity, Black Panther and Captain Marvel will replace Ant-Man and Wasp as founding Avengers, or they might replicate the movie with Hawkeye and Black Widow. If Ant-Man joins the new Avengers continuity, it will be Scott Lang.

Completely disagree. Hank is and always will be the better character (as most originals usually are). I liked Scott when he first showed up. Loved his appearences in Iron Man, Avengers, DeFalco and Ryan's FF, and in Ostrander and Ferry's H4H (which is quite possibly my all-time favorite Marvel book). However, when the MCU synergy kicked in, and they once more decided to turn a good character into a joke, a loser, I totally lost interest. As for Hank, he really doesn't have to compete with Scott. He can be whoever he wants to be (Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, Dr. Pym, whatever...) pricisely because he is the better character, and so much can be done with him and with his abilities by the right creator.

Peace

[Frontier]

Completely disagree. Hank is and always will be the better character (as most originals usually are). I liked Scott when he first showed up. Loved his appearences in Iron Man, Avengers, DeFalco and Ryan's FF, and in Ostrander and Ferry's H4H (which is quite possibly my all-time favorite Marvel book). However, when the MCU synergy kicked in, and they once more decided to turn a good character into a joke, a loser, I totally lost interest. As for Hank, he really doesn't have to compete with Scott. He can be whoever he wants to be (Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, Dr. Pym, whatever...) pricisely because he is the better character, and so much can be done with him and with his abilities by the right creator.

Peace

Yeah, "loveable loser" Scott doesn't really interest me that much any more.

[Kaijudo]

I always liked Hank's take on the Wasp, turning him into a shrinking super-science pulp hero. I'd like to see him come back in that identity and then have Jan use the Pym Particles to grow giant for a while, since there really isn't any kind of "giant woman" character in regular use since Stature became Stinger (not counting DC's Giganta). Plus, what does Jan's Wasp sting look like when she's fifty feet tall?

[Alan2099]

Nobody stays dead permanently. Not even Bucky.

[mugiwara]

I always can’t help but find it funny how Hank is basically tarnished by that one slap that was art error and yet we never hear anything about Reed or Peter despite the fact that they’ve both had a moment of slapping their wife (and in Peter’s case, while she was pregnant).

It Reed's case, it was totally different. Sue was under the influence of Psycho Man and was trying to kill him. In those circumstances, it would even have been ok to punch her out. (But he slaped her and trash talked her to make her so angry she would shake off the psychic influence)

[Chris0013]

Completely disagree. Hank is and always will be the better character (as most originals usually are). I liked Scott when he first showed up. Loved his appearences in Iron Man, Avengers, DeFalco and Ryan's FF, and in Ostrander and Ferry's H4H (which is quite possibly my all-time favorite Marvel book). However, when the MCU synergy kicked in, and they once more decided to turn a good character into a joke, a loser, I totally lost interest. As for Hank, he really doesn't have to compete with Scott. He can be whoever he wants to be (Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, Dr. Pym, whatever...) pricisely because he is the better character, and so much can be done with him and with his abilities by the right creator.

Peace

While not the worst story decision that Marvel ever approved...it is bad enough to make the list. I so wish they would give us a serious take on Scott in Miami that is somewhat like the USA network show Burn Notice.

[Iron Maiden]

It Reed's case, it was totally different. Sue was under the influence of Psycho Man and was trying to kill him. In those circumstances, it would even have been ok to punch her out. (But he slaped her and trash talked her to make her so angry she would shake off the psychic influence)

Correct, this is like a meme that shows up from time to time on the internet and they only use the one panel. But they don't put in the whole scene.

[Ultimate Captain America]

Pym once asked, why nobody ever forgets about the slap, but characters who did much worse (such as Wanda depowering mutants) are easily forgiven?

For a simple reason: those characters who did "much worse" did just fantasy-level stuff. Domestic abuse is real and serious stuff. And let's be real, you ask for him to be rehabilitated from being a domestic abuser and back into a character with the moral high ground of Superman... has such a thing ever happened with someone else? Ever? Domestic abuse is always used either by the most despicable villains or by "heroes" with an evil hidden side or who turned evil, not by real-good heroes (and by "hero" I don't mean superheroes, but the more general "hero of the story") or even by heroes with shades of gray, and those villains are always punished by their evil actions by the end of the story. Comics were trying to rehabilitate him back in the 1990s, but such a thing flied under the radar because comics are niche and the internet was still in its infancy. Nowadays, if Marvel tried to use some narrative trick to rehabilitate Pym, CBR and many similar sites would flood with "Marvel is whitewashing a domestic abuser!" articles, and who needs that kind of publicity? And needless to say, if that harms the overall reputation of Marvel as a family-friendly multimedia brand, heads are gonna roll!

I don't think it's even the infamous slap that is holding Hank back; I think it's the Ultimates. Ultimate Hank was a real POS. Now they're bringing the Ultimate Universe, or some derivative, back. Hank can be connected to a repeated pattern of abuse that his alternate counterpart did. Undeserved or not, casual fans associate Hank with domestic abuse. He'll never be a mainstay in a book again, because any appearance would come with a bunch of articles talking about "The Most EVIL Avenger Ever" or shit like that. Even if he gets resurrected, but he won't have more than a guest appearance every few years, and even that is very unlikely.

The Ultimates were published in 2002, so no. At this point, anyone who knows about comics enough to be familiar with the Ultimates, knows about comics enough to be familiar with the dynamics of comics as to understand the difference between the "main" universe and others, and to distinguish the stories set in each one.

I always can’t help but find it funny how Hank is basically tarnished by that one slap that was art error and yet we never hear anything about Reed or Peter despite the fact that they’ve both had a moment of slapping their wife (and in Peter’s case, while she was pregnant).

That was not an error, Jim Shooter said so many years later just to save face with the Pym fans. I mean, something else happens in the same issue...



And this happens some time later, still in a comic written by Jim Shooter.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

Hank Pym is a failed superhero. His feature failed in the 1960s, and the Avengers title is the only thing that kept him in existence. Scott Lang is the better Ant-Man.
In the event of a relaunched continuity, Black Panther and Captain Marvel will replace Ant-Man and Wasp as founding Avengers, or they might replicate the movie with Hawkeye and Black Widow. If Ant-Man joins the new Avengers continuity, it will be Scott Lang.

Hank and Jan are founding members and it will always stay that way. Captain Marvel has failed repeatedly so what’s your point? As for Hank’s failed series it did pretty well in the early 60’s. Go on YouTube and look at the numbers. Some guy does month by month sales. He was no worse than Thor, Iron Man, Spider-Man and the Torch. Only the FF sold better. Astronomical numbers by todays standards so you can hardly say he failed. Stan didn’t pay much attention to him. He started to spread himself to thin and focused on the team books and Spider-Man. Ewing will do him Justice. Editorial needs to keep future writers from using him in a bad light. Scott is a better Ant-Man but Marvel shits all over him as well. There are heroes that have done far worse and yet they get a free pass.

[Kaijudo]

Pym once asked, why nobody ever forgets about the slap, but characters who did much worse (such as Wanda depowering mutants) are easily forgiven?

For a simple reason: those characters who did "much worse" did just fantasy-level stuff. Domestic abuse is real and serious stuff. And let's be real, you ask for him to be rehabilitated from being a domestic abuser and back into a character with the moral high ground of Superman... has such a thing ever happened with someone else? Ever? Domestic abuse is always used either by the most despicable villains or by "heroes" with an evil hidden side or who turned evil, not by real-good heroes (and by "hero" I don't mean superheroes, but the more general "hero of the story") or even by heroes with shades of gray, and those villains are always punished by their evil actions by the end of the story. Comics were trying to rehabilitate him back in the 1990s, but such a thing flied under the radar because comics are niche and the internet was still in its infancy. Nowadays, if Marvel tried to use some narrative trick to rehabilitate Pym, CBR and many similar sites would flood with "Marvel is whitewashing a domestic abuser!" articles, and who needs that kind of publicity? And needless to say, if that harms the overall reputation of Marvel as a family-friendly multimedia brand, heads are gonna roll!

Yeah...it happened to Hank effing Pym himself, between his return in West Coast Avengers and then followed up by the Busiek Avengers run. Everyone acknowledged and accepted the circumstances of the situation and moved on from it. But then you get armchair nihilist Millar leaning hard into that element in Ultimates, as well as Bendis (and maybe Chuck Austen before him? I'm not sure) who just gloms onto that one element of Hank to fortify the faux "gritty edginess" of his run, yet another example of Bendis wanting to write crime comics but knowing the money's in superheroes as he grafts the tropes of one genre onto the other to "revolutionize" the Avengers. Just weak, shallow storytelling to allow him to play to his "strengths" as a writer.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I always liked Hank's take on the Wasp, turning him into a shrinking super-science pulp hero. I'd like to see him come back in that identity and then have Jan use the Pym Particles to grow giant for a while, since there really isn't any kind of "giant woman" character in regular use since Stature became Stinger (not counting DC's Giganta). Plus, what does Jan's Wasp sting look like when she's fifty feet tall?

I'd be up for it. It would be a cool what if issue.

[Sutekh]

I always liked Hank's take on the Wasp, turning him into a shrinking super-science pulp hero. I'd like to see him come back in that identity and then have Jan use the Pym Particles to grow giant for a while, since there really isn't any kind of "giant woman" character in regular use since Stature became Stinger (not counting DC's Giganta). Plus, what does Jan's Wasp sting look like when she's fifty feet tall?

That would be a neat twist, Hank in a more 'small science-guy' niche, and Janet in a giant powerhouse role.

Given Hank's many turns over the years, Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Yellowjacket, it would be neat to see him stretch out into another role / niche, rather than revisit one of his previous identities. Perhaps something tied to his 'ant telepathy' or robot-making skills, using Pym particles to carry a swarm of micro-bots around making him more of a 'summoner / controller' type, who sends swarms of minions at foes (and can also direct the mech-ants to construct / repair stuff, spy, do various other utility stunts), or further use Pym particles to expand one or more of his ant-bots into a larger form for bigger fights (robot ants the size of a school bus could certainly put a dent in a magma man incursion or something).

And that's just one example, but with Scott, Cassie, Janet, Nadia, Raz, Tom, etc. all taking on various Ant or Giant roles, it could be cool to see Hank continue pushing forward, and building a new identity, rather than go backwards to one that's already been associated with a legacy character.

Yeah, "loveable loser" Scott doesn't really interest me that much any more.

The trend of making experienced competent heroes into 'loveable losers' and schmoes annoys me, whether it's Clint Barton, Scott Lang, Dane Whitman or Danny Rand. Various experienced heroes, some having actually led Avengers teams, turned into bumbling incompetents who seem to luck into their victories like some modern-day Inspector Clouseau.