Do you think Hank Pym is dead 'PERMANENT'?

[Tien Long]

Haven't read all of the posts here, so take my response with a grain of salt.

First off, definitely think that Hank should come back. Whether that's as an advisor or as an active hero, I'm open to either. Just to see him back.

Secondly, I don't hold his domestic abuse against him. Yes, he hit a woman. Yes, that is wrong.

And he has acknowledged it.
And he has even gone on to say that he shouldn't even be forgiven for it.
And he has done numerous things to make up for that act.

That is the difference.

That is the difference between Hank Pym and some lowlife domestic abuser who hasn't taken accountability nor responsibility.

So yeah, Hank Pym should come back into the Avengers, either as the advisor or active hero. Again, take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

Yeah...it happened to Hank effing Pym himself, between his return in West Coast Avengers and then followed up by the Busiek Avengers run. Everyone acknowledged and accepted the circumstances of the situation and moved on from it. But then you get armchair nihilist Millar leaning hard into that element in Ultimates, as well as Bendis (and maybe Chuck Austen before him? I'm not sure) who just gloms onto that one element of Hank to fortify the faux "gritty edginess" of his run, yet another example of Bendis wanting to write crime comics but knowing the money's in superheroes as he grafts the tropes of one genre onto the other to "revolutionize" the Avengers. Just weak, shallow storytelling to allow him to play to his "strengths" as a writer.

One of the reasons I could never stand Bendis. Plus the fact he always bad mouthed Hank. Millar’s Ultimates certainly didn’t do Hank any favors but all the Avengers were seriously flawed. That was the whole point. Hank got the worst of it though. Hank has plenty of support on these boards. People love flawed characters. Stan made all of them flawed. Probably why Marvel left squeaky clean DC in their dust. Marvel needs to let Ewing give it a shot and then stop future writers from taking liberties on Hank again.

[kcekada]

Haven't read all of the posts here, so take my response with a grain of salt.

First off, definitely think that Hank should come back. Whether that's as an advisor or as an active hero, I'm open to either. Just to see him back.

Secondly, I don't hold his domestic abuse against him. Yes, he hit a woman. Yes, that is wrong.

And he has acknowledged it.
And he has even gone on to say that he shouldn't even be forgiven for it.
And he has done numerous things to make up for that act.

That is the difference.

That is the difference between Hank Pym and some lowlife domestic abuser who hasn't taken accountability nor responsibility.

I agree 100%. Also, let's remember this is a fictional character -- and evidently the writer behind it didn't intend for it to be as violent as it was portrayed. Hank moved past this -- even though some writers seem to want him to relive it over and over.

Hank is a great character -- and one of the most interesting Avengers created (way more interesting than Tony, Steve and Thor, IMHO). Bring him back!

[Chris0013]

Haven't read all of the posts here, so take my response with a grain of salt.

First off, definitely think that Hank should come back. Whether that's as an advisor or as an active hero, I'm open to either. Just to see him back.

Secondly, I don't hold his domestic abuse against him. Yes, he hit a woman. Yes, that is wrong.

And he has acknowledged it.
And he has even gone on to say that he shouldn't even be forgiven for it.
And he has done numerous things to make up for that act.

That is the difference.

That is the difference between Hank Pym and some lowlife domestic abuser who hasn't taken accountability nor responsibility.

So yeah, Hank Pym should come back into the Avengers, either as the advisor or active hero. Again, take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

And it was during a period of mental instability.

[your_name_here]

Or you could just not. Not everyone refers to when Peter Parker slapped MJ during clone saga.

Countless years of it being referenced tells another story. I agree, and we should move on, but unfortunately it’s become a defining Hank “thing” now.

[K7P5V]

He had been shown to have mental health issues from early on. Hank had a mental breakdown after his first wife Maria was 'kidnapped and killed' back in the old Tales To Astonish run. The fall of Yellowjacket run was probably his worst mental breakdown though.

Indeed. Here's proof (Tales to Astonish #44)

[Digifiend]

I assume this was at least nine months after Maria went missing? Otherwise Nadia's origin contradicts it.

Though at least the recent Wasp mini doesn't contradict that page - it's only implied that Maria's father is also dead, never confirmed, and he just turned up alive.

[Tien Long]

I agree 100%. Also, let's remember this is a fictional character -- and evidently the writer behind it didn't intend for it to be as violent as it was portrayed. Hank moved past this -- even though some writers seem to want him to relive it over and over.

Hank is a great character -- and one of the most interesting Avengers created (way more interesting than Tony, Steve and Thor, IMHO). Bring him back!

Agreed bro. Like I said, either he could be in an advisory role or active role. In terms of capability, Hank Pym is the Scientist Supreme. He could offer so much to the Avengers:

And it was during a period of mental instability.

And that too bro.

[Commissioner Wayne]

[QUOTE=Tien Long;6545872]Agreed bro. Like I said, either he could be in an advisory role or active role. In terms of capability, Hank Pym is the Scientist Supreme. He could offer so much to the Avengers:



Was it ever confirmed or denied that Loki was actually posing as Eternity? I feel like that thread was just sort of dropped...

[Sutekh]

[QUOTE=Commissioner Wayne;6546071]

Agreed bro. Like I said, either he could be in an advisory role or active role. In terms of capability, Hank Pym is the Scientist Supreme. He could offer so much to the Avengers:



Was it ever confirmed or denied that Loki was actually posing as Eternity? I feel like that thread was just sort of dropped...

While I'm a big Hank Pym fan, that whole Mighty Avengers run (*) sometimes came across as some sort of weird fanfic, and that Scientist Supreme thing was the fanficcy-est part, IMO.

I want that to totally have been Loki messing with him.

*The bit where Hank took the identity of Wasp to honor the memory of Janet, and Hercules said that a man would take on a woman's name to honor her memory was proof that he might still be crazy made me want to slap the taste out of Herc's mouth. There was some good stuff in that run, like Hank Pym and Reed Richards little snipe-fest, but yikes.

[CrimsonEchidna]

The way I've come to see it, I don't think there's this real "reverence" for Hank Pym in the Marvel Bullpen the way there is for other Silver Age characters. Like how DC moved heaven and earth to set up status quos for Hal and Barry's resurrection.

Hell, the best comparison I can actually make is Scott Summers. We've seen through the years of his continuity baggage weighing him down and difference attempts at writing him out of the books but the powers that be ultimately like the character enough where it never sticks long term. It's not even a matter of "the writers/editorial hating Hank Pym" because I think it's general apathy more than anything else.

[Sutekh]

The way I've come to see it, I don't think there's this real "reverence" for Hank Pym in the Marvel Bullpen the way there is for other Silver Age characters. Like how DC moved heaven and earth to set up status quos for Hal and Barry's resurrection.

Hell, the best comparison I can actually make is Scott Summers. We've seen through the years of his continuity baggage weighing him down and difference attempts at writing him out of the books but the powers that be ultimately like the character enough where it never sticks long term. It's not even a matter of "the writers/editorial hating Hank Pym" because I think it's general apathy more than anything else.

Yeah, I definitely feel like, at the moment, nobody with any 'juice' at Marvel has any burning desire to write a story involving Hank Pym, and, from my experience over the decades, it's probably for the best that we don't have any Hank Pym stories written by some schmoe who doesn't *want* to write a Hank Pym story, but was handed the job because someone upstairs wanted to pump something out for IP / copyright reasons.

If there's not a good story out there waiting to be told about a character, I think I'd rather they lie fallow a bit longer than we get a crappy by-the-numbers story from someone who doesn't particularly care for the character. This sort of thing happens a lot in comics, characters being dragged out 'before they're ready' because some suit upstairs thought 'it was time!' and yet ends up being portrayed wildly OOC, to the point that it's essentially a brand-new character who inexplicably has the same name (and powers, and body, and history, more or less) as a totally different character established over many decades, previously. I mentioned upthread characters like Dane Whitman, Scott Lang and Clint Barton being wildly different characters than the competent experienced heroes they'd been in the past (even Avengers team leaders, in two of the three cases, and a Fantastic Four team leader who spanked Dr. Doom, in Scott Lang's case!).

I certainly wouldn't want to see Hank Pym 'come back' to the same sort of bimbofication that has afflicted those other characters.

[Frontier]

I think even Al Ewing in interviews for the Ant-Man anniversary series implied that Hank was at his best during his original Silver Age days and didn't have as much purpose later (if I recall correctly).

There's also the issue of Scott being the "main" Ant-Man but Marvel doesn't seem too invested in him either.

[Chris0013]

[QUOTE=Sutekh;6546184]

While I'm a big Hank Pym fan, that whole Mighty Avengers run (*) sometimes came across as some sort of weird fanfic, and that Scientist Supreme thing was the fanficcy-est part, IMO.

I want that to totally have been Loki messing with him.

*The bit where Hank took the identity of Wasp to honor the memory of Janet, and Hercules said that a man would take on a woman's name to honor her memory was proof that he might still be crazy made me want to slap the taste out of Herc's mouth. There was some good stuff in that run, like Hank Pym and Reed Richards little snipe-fest, but yikes.

honestly? I hope it is NOT Loki messing with him. I think Hank needs a win like that.

[ComicNoobie]

I think even Al Ewing in interviews for the Ant-Man anniversary series implied that Hank was at his best during his original Silver Age days and didn't have as much purpose later (if I recall correctly).

There's also the issue of Scott being the "main" Ant-Man but Marvel doesn't seem too invested in him either.

Marvel is throwing shade at the Pym Particle users. Even when they do use Scott he's disrespected by the Avengers, even those he use to be really close with like Stark. So far only Janet ironically enough is the only one getting some kind of use. We need that Ant-Vengers team like yesterday!