The growing friendship between the X-Men and Avengers/MU Heroes

[JB]

Nightcrawler visits She-Hulk in her office and she agrees to represent Krakoa. She-Hulk #6.



She had herself a good time at last year's Hellfire Gala.

[jwatson]

I'm eating it up with a spoon. It's been hard to come by since after Onslaught.

[Force de Phenix]

If you look at some of the interviews and comments from the current Spiderman office its clear they think people being mad is positive for the books, and the Vs events are probably the best way to do that. I haven't paid much attention to either of the Civil Wars but no one came out looking good from either AvX or IvX. Weirdly enough both IvX and Civil War 2 were the same year so Marvel must have really liked the idea.

It's sad. Probably the reason there were so many bad events and character arcs, and Death of stories. Like is Moon knight gonna return as a mutant is Iron Man armor?

I don't know what AXE was considered, but they doubled down after pitting every other group against each other.

[ARkadelphia]

Kamala has been made a mutant because she became one in the MCU

That’s one theory

[Vishop]

So there are other 'theories' behind her becoming a mutant?

[Frontier]

Nightcrawler visits She-Hulk in her office and she agrees to represent Krakoa. She-Hulk #6.



She had herself a good time at last year's Hellfire Gala.

We've come a long way from that time she was part of that group that shut down the Jean Grey school during AvX (I think).

[JB]

We've come a long way from that time she was part of that group that shut down the Jean Grey school during AvX (I think).

Oh yeah. She, Falcon, and Moon Knight tried to prevent more faculty from joining the fight or something. Though they did try to fix relations after the event it was all still too fresh and felt sour. Thankfully we've come a long way indeed!

That reminds me of the flag football game between Avengers Academy and the Jean Grey school around that time.



I always liked stuff like this.

[Nicoclaws]

Nightcrawler visits She-Hulk in her office and she agrees to represent Krakoa. She-Hulk #6.



She had herself a good time at last year's Hellfire Gala.

She-Hulk/Nightcrawler would be a nice couple, now that I think about it. I don't quite know Jen's taste in men.

[Omega Alpha]

Which they clearly must have done to boost flagging X-men book sales! How nice of Feige to help out the comics side of marvel like this.

Oh, yes- saying the Avengers office is using X-Men characters for sales is exactly the same as saying Ms. Marvel became a mutant in the MCU.to help comics sales, no difference there

[BobbysWorld]

Hey, who thinks its been too long since I've inflicted ye old Wall of Text posts on you, and we're all overdue for another one?!

CUZ I DO!

Ahem. Anyway:

So I'm getting the impression from solicits that Orlando intends Astonishing Iceman to lean heavily into Bobby's relationships with non-mutants, such as having Romeo and him dating again and issue #3 having him team up with one of the new Captain America-related characters.....and this is one of the things I'm most excited to see.

Historically, Bobby has some of the MOST connections outside the X-Men and in terms of history and personal themes, he makes SO much sense to be a key liaison bridging divides between mutants and non-mutants in spite of how his own biological family has spent so much time insisting on being divided from him.

1) He's a long time frenemy of Johnny Storm, with varying takes on whether they're friends or friendly rivals, and a lot of stories that showcase how well they knew each other as teens, back when heroes were first starting to become commonplace and they - as the two youngest members of their very famous teams - often bonded over that commonality. This dynamic with Johnny has never fully extended to the rest of the Fantastic Four, but they're very familiar with him and have always viewed him fondly, with him even 'technically' being considered a temporary Fantastic Four member due to a couple of missions he's joined them for, without the rest of the X-Men present.

2) He has a long tradition of being associated with Peter Parker, from the oft-cited Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends cartoon that is the entire basis of Bobby and Angelica being written as being good friends, to a number of stories that allude to or explicitly show Bobby and Peter having team-ups and an off-and-on friendship when they were teenagers. He was obviously never as close to Peter as Peter and Johnny are as friends, or even as close as Bobby and Johnny were at times, but the history is definitely there, and despite how lukewarm the dynamic between Peter and Bobby was written in Dark Web, out of pretty much all the X-Men, Bobby's probably the one Peter would be quickest or most likely to label a personal friend.

3) He was a founding member of the original Champions during his college years, after he left the X-Men. It was short-lived but he and Warren have always been portrayed as having kept up their friendships with their Champions teammates.....despite not having been on a team together in over forty years, Bobby's always been close with Darkstar (who serves on Russia's closest equivalent to the Avengers), Black Widow, Hercules and even Ghost Rider. They remained close enough that when most of the Avengers were thought dead after Onslaught, Black Widow personally reached out to Bobby and Warren to ask them to join her as part of a new Avengers team, and all the Champions reunited to honor Natasha's death just a few years ago. They also teamed up occasionally in the years in between, like when they temporarily reunited to face the Hulk in World War Hulk.

4) After the Champions disbanded, he and Warren and Hank joined the New Defenders for a time, establishing and cementing times with important Marvel figures like Moondragon and Valkyrie....not to mention Cloud, the gender-shifting cosmic entity Bobby very briefly dated before their true identity was discovered. Moondragon's a prominent figure in the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise these days (as is Hercules), and while Bobby was never as close with her as he was with Hercules, they exist as personal ties he has beyond even the Earth itself, to some of the universe's most influential figures. Cloud's recently returned to prominence - especially in Ewing's cosmic stuff - and is definitively treated as an extremely powerful cosmic entity.....who personally thinks of Bobby as one of their dearest friends. Whom they used to smooch.

5) Thanks to the time travel shenanigans of All-New X-Men, his literal first boyfriend was Romeo, an Inhuman, at a time when hostilities between Inhumans and mutants were at an all-time high. Something both Bobby and Romeo canonically gave no shits about - teen Bobby certainly didn't side with the Inhumans against his own people, like others could be argued as doing *cough Beast cough* but he most definitely looked around at everyone saying okay mutants have to fight Inhumans now and Inhumans gotta fight mutants now, its the rule.....and then he and his Inhuman boyfriend looked at each other and said yeah we're just not gonna be doing that, thanks. Bobby's never worked against his peoples' best interest or sided against mutants as a group, but he is NOT blindly loyal and won't turn on those he values just because OTHER people don't see a way for him to honor his connections to both his fellow mutants and to non-mutants. He's like no, I can do both. I can even pat my head and rub my stomach at the same time. I excel at multitasking.

(Its another reason why as much as I love the Bobby/Christian ship, I actually DO think its a brilliant move to have Bobby dating Romeo at this specific juncture, and very in character with him. I think it says a lot for Bobby to be portrayed as one of mutantkind's biggest champions during its darkest hour.....while bringing one of mutantkind's alleged historic enemies along for the ride. If Romeo sides with mutantkind in a visible, tangible way that has him acting as an actual ally or demonstrating solidarity even if it puts him at risk from people who would otherwise leave him alone.....that's pretty emblematic of Bobby's capacity to ignore divides and bring people together. Many X-Men are willing to put themselves on the line for non-mutants, just for principle or because of their personal connections. This is a non-mutant putting himself on the line for mutants, because of his personal connection to Bobby. That's a big deal, IMO).

6) Despite being gay, Bobby's history of dating women includes one of the most long-lasting relationships any of the X-Men have had with a non-mutant, let alone someone who has never been a superhero. He and Opal Tanaka were together for years, from his time on X-Factor to the late 90s, with his relationship relevant to his mini with her in the early 00s where he was teased as the father of her child, and with Opal and Robert Jr. returning as major parts of the Dark Iceman arc in the early 2010s. Opal's not just some rando, either.....she's related to one of the biggest Yakuza clans in the Marvel Earth, relevant to a number of stories about The Hand, and she also at a different point dated Matsuo.....aka the ex-fiancee of Kwannon. The father of Kwannon's child was literally Bobby's romantic rival when the latter was dating Opal.

(With all of the above also being why I'm so keen on Robert Jr. being confirmed as Bobby's kid, and having he and Opal co-parent him. Very few characters are as perfectly positioned to showcase a non-nuclear family of humans and mutants both equally invested in the future of their child. Even Kyle is spotlighted as being Krakoan due to his marriage with JP, but with no romantic relationship between Bobby and Opal themselves at this juncture, its highly unlikely she'd be interested in Krakoan citizenship for herself, and IMO there's a very interesting story to be told in Bobby trailblazing a precedent for joint custody between a Krakoan mutant and a non-Krakoan human, raising a child who has a foot in both the human and mutant 'worlds' no matter what the current status of human/mutant relations).

[BobbysWorld]

7) Bobby has a very weird and unconventional dynamic with both Thor and Loki, due to his power levels and history being kidnapped first by Vanir cultists who tried to use him to resurrect the frost primordial Ymir and had to be rescued by Thor, then warned of his potential to be an existential danger by Thor, then kidnapped by Loki who tried to use Bobby to empower an army of frost giants, then fighting Thor as the kind of existential danger he warned Bobby might become during the Dark Iceman arc, then building a reputation for himself by beating up frost giants known for fighting Thor and warning them from attacking Earth again, then being sort of kidnapped by Loki who wanted Bobby to help rescue him from some sorcerer-kid on a power trip and teaming up with him......the point being, Bobby's name is Very Known in Asgardian circles and he's one of the X-Men that Thor and Loki are most likely to hit up for a favor or that would be open to him hitting them up for a favor in turn. They go way back.

8) Bobby's one of the few X-Men with established ties and history with pretty much every single major generation of mutants....even those who often go off to become more associated with non X-books. He was the go-to mentor figure for Rictor, Boom-Boom, Rusty, Skids and Wiz-Kid back in his X-Factor days.....with them now being major figures in Otherworld, SHIELD, SWORD, etc. He was explicitly known as one of Generation X's favorite guest instructors, one of the regular teachers for the Academy X kids, and the first person Logan recruited to teach at his new school for mutant kids post-Schism. He's often been highlighted for establishing personal connections with young mutants like Chris Bradley even while they interact with entire teams of X-Men in general, with Bobby being one of the only two Chris remained in contact with and one of the only ones to retain an explicit interest in looking out for Chris after he left them. During Chris' time as a New Warrior, Bobby is the X-Man Chris would namedrop all the time as his best friend, meaning even New Warriors who've never met him would be more likely to seek out Bobby or trust him if they needed to interact with the X-Men, over just about any other option. When Sam joined the X-Men, Bobby was consistently depicted as his closest confidante and mentor figure, when Bishop came back to the past Bobby took point on adapting him to his new time period, and even when he wasn't an active X-Man, he led Marrow, Cecilia Reyes and Sabra in evading O:ZT and tracking down Bastion before being pivotal in arranging for the first two to join the X-Men even after he left again, despite their reservations and the X-Men's reservations about Marrow.

EVERYONE knows Bobby, and contrary to a lot of out-of-universe jokes, in-universe, pretty much everyone Bobby's ever taught or mentored is consistently portrayed as having a very favorable opinion of him. He's not just one of the most consistent teacher/mentor/authority figures for younger generations of mutants, he's easily one of the most popular and approachable.

9) Other than his relatively brief characterization by Chuck Austen as a snob who hates every X-Man other than the 05 and has no interest in seeing villains like Juggernaut redeem themselves.....the biggest problem with Austen's depiction of Bobby is that directly flies in the face of how almost EVERY other writer characterizes him. Bobby's explicitly known in-universe for his willingness to give people the benefit of the doubt, believe in peoples' capacity to change, and actionably help them turn things around or demonstrate trust in them. His first and best friend on the X-Men, outside of the 05, was Rogue.....who prior to that he'd only ever known as a villain. Like literally two issues after they were first made teammates, he's treating her like they've been friends for years and weighing in on her love life. He was one of the X-Men with MOST cause to hold a grudge against Emma Frost and distrust she'd 'reformed' from her Hellfire days, as she'd (unintentionally) hijacked his body and then very intentionally tried to get herself killed while in it.....only for Bobby to very quickly get over his distrust after just a couple hostile interactions, and then become one of her few confidantes on the X-Men and her date when chaperoning Generation X's dances. His refusal to tolerate his father's bigotry led to his father being the one to bend and publicly standing up for mutants at a Graydon Creed hate rally, after which Bobby left the team to care for his dad despite everything his father had done to him to that point.....he won't take things passively, but show you want to change and he WILL give you a chance to prove it.

With him then demonstrating this again with Mystique when she joined the team, and even though she betrayed him, this colored his later interactions with Mystique but did absolutely nothing to make him more cynical in general, as he continued to extend the benefit of the doubt to villains and antiheroes in stories immediately and long after Messiah Complex.

10) Bobby's one of the few X-Men to take a vested interest in the Morlock community, and to be seen by Morlocks as an actual friend and ally rather than just declaring himself one. Not only has he gone out of his way to seek out Morlocks, protect them and search out abducted and exploited Morlocks.....he's canonically been established making a point to find ways to help them in other ways. He's connected them with lawyers, paid the legal fees of Morlocks arrested for 'disturbing the peace' and when Christian Frost gave him a ****-ton of money to thank him for helping Emma break him out of his longterm trauma response to being abused and institutionalized......the literal first thing Bobby did with that money was turn around and give it all to the nearest Morlock community, opening an LLC in his name so they could use the funds legally and then giving them full discretion to do whatever they wanted with the money, according to whatever THEY thought they needed rather than him patronizingly deciding for them how the funds should be utilized.

In conclusion......down with the take on Bobby as a disrespected punchline other heroes and mutants look down on as stupid, immature or naive!

Up with the take where Bobby's one of the most famous and well-connected mutants in the entire Marvel universe, almost universally respected and appreciated for his willingness to help everyone regardless of who they are, and seen as one of the most consistently steadfast defenders of the rights of himself, his communities and all other marginalized or oppressed people, and who has a well-established track record of not putting up with bigotry or bullshit and not watering down his convictions by catering to lip service or optics, all while still balancing this with his belief that people can and do change for the better if he gives them a chance. Who has a history of showing he WANTS to believe the best of people and WILL keep himself open to the possibility they can change his mind about them, no matter their past.....but he WON'T just blindly accept their word for it and ISN'T naive enough to put himself or others at risk by taking people at face value.....he'll LET you prove you've changed or can do better by people, but he'll still insist you actually DEMONSTRATE that before he just accepts that yes, you're now an ally instead of a threat. (All of which makes my die-hard belief that Bobby canonically hates or at least very intensely dislikes Xavier even funnier, but I digress).

In conclusion:

Bobby for Krakoan Ambassador.

[Saithor]

Oh, yes- saying the Avengers office is using X-Men characters for sales is exactly the same as saying Ms. Marvel became a mutant in the MCU.to help comics sales, no difference there

Give us your hard evidence that the Avengers and X-men being friendly is only or primarily motivated by a sales tactic that is not “My gut said so”.

[JB]

Beautifully said, BW, and thank you for the insight. Bobby for Krakoan Ambassador indeed!

[ARkadelphia]

So there are other 'theories' behind her becoming a mutant?

X dept needed a boost to their solo line

[Vishop]

X dept needed a boost to their solo line

Kamala isn't a good selling solo either. In fact it's worse than most of the x-solos