Why is the Punisher so appealing to the military and the police?

[Ascended]

Don't think there's much to it is there? I've never been the biggest Frank fan but it seems pretty straightforward to me.

I mean, what's not to like from their perspective? No bureaucratic BS red tape, Frank never (???) goes after the wrong person, never misses. He isn't some impossible sungod alien, he's not an ultra-rich genius with sci-fi tools and gadgets, or a mutant with impossible genetics. He's a regular soldier like them, only better at the job and he doesn't take orders from fools who shouldn't be giving them, and he's not killing random people on foreign soil who's only crime was living somewhere that's not America. Even the combat PTSD is something most cops and soldiers are intimately familiar with, they see themselves in the guy.

Granted, if you know much about Frank as a character, you know that he's not a role model of any kind, and it's arguably the cops and soldiers who should take issue with him the most. But not every dudebro in a Superman tank top knows anything about Clark, and not every woman with a Wonder Woman purse knows anything about Diana. They just know the symbol and, roughly, what it's supposed to stand for. Strength, empowerment, whatever. Frank's symbol came to represent something to these cops and soldiers, and it shouldn't have because Frank is a hot mess and a psychopath, but it's not the character they like so much as it's what they think the logo represents.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Captain America is no fan.... (from Civil War series)

That's probably another reason. Conservatives have misappropriated patriotism into their agenda so the Punisher refusing to fight Captain America must make them hornier than a triceratops.

[Tien Long]

Vulture actually ran an article on this same topic. It was released several years ago and was updated in light of events that happened in 2020.

You can check it out here:
https://www.vulture.com/article/marv...they%20return.

Some of the points that stick out to me in the article are that yes, military and police like the character because of the simple "find the bad guy, kill the bad guy" mentality. No red tape, no bureaucracy, just pure repercussion. Their comments remind me of some conversations I've had with police officers or interviews I've heard of military personnel. I remember the looks in their eyes or quiet demeanor in their voices when they talked about coming to a murder scene or encountering real human depravity. Stuff that regular people have never witnessed. For them they have seen real evil. And for them there is only one answer. The Punisher represents that. Others liked the Punisher because of that "never give up, never give in" mentality.

The article also mentions how many of military and police personnel are very aware of the need for restraint and proper procedure. In real life, they know that such things are necessary. The article also shows how in recent Punisher comics, Frank criticized cops for using his symbol. They are supposed to represent law and order. Not "coded" law and order, but actual proper and fair procedure.

The Punisher's message is very clear and simple. Kill the bad guy. Very good. But who is the enemy? And that concept easily be misused.

I'll be honest, with everything that has happened in recent years, I've had to rethink my views on the Punisher. I still think there is a need for him. There is true evil in this world. And sometimes it can be very intimidating. And sometimes there is no other answer except for merciless, forceful violence. HOWEVER, who is evil? Who is the enemy? Is the Punisher's violence needed here? Or maybe Captain America's compassion and understanding?

Jason Aaron captured some of these sentiments on his final issue of his last Punisher run:


I agree. We can agree with some aspects of the Punisher. And disagree vehemently with others. Underneath the simplicity of the Punisher's message, there's also a tragedy. Military personnel, police, me, you, all of us must consider that.

[ed2962]

The same reason some folks like Dirty Harry, Death Wish, etc.

By the way, people keep forgetting that when the Punisher surged in popularity, conservative and libertarian creators worked on his stories ( Miller, Grant, Baron, Dixon...) And the stereotype is the majority of the servicemen and police tend to lean a bit conservative.

[K7P5V]

Captain America is no fan.... (from Civil War series)

Hmmm. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Personally, I thought they worked well together during Blood & Glory (1992):

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

This became synonymous with the Iraqi Special Forces.



Our snipers training them read comics and loved the symbol and put it on their flack jackets. They shared their comic books with the Iraqis and they came to like the symbol. Iraqi Army and police forces saw their Special Forces using the symbol and adapted it.

That's fascinating. I'd be interested reading about an Iraqi soldier pretending to be the Punisher for a bit.

[The Negative Zone]

How many people using Punisher skulls actually know the comic character? The name and skull actually feel strikingly generic TBH.

Also, everyone is talking about conservatives and all but doesn't everyone sort of deep down wish "bad guys" would get their due if the justice system fails? It's a pretty standard thing really.

[Golden Guardian of Good]

How many people using Punisher skulls actually know the comic character? The name and skull actually feel strikingly generic TBH.

Also, everyone is talking about conservatives and all but doesn't everyone sort of deep down wish "bad guys" would get their due if the justice system fails? It's a pretty standard thing really.

People are being disingenuous in that regards.

[Felipe Silveira]

The skull is a symbol of death, a soldier in war or a policeman (depending on where he works, such as Rio de Janeiro) is close to death. Using her symbol is to demonstrate that you are not afraid of her and are there for whatever comes.
The character is a lone soldier, often how a soldier or policeman feels. When people in privileged positions and away from the risk he lives want to dictate how he should act (coff coff, human rights, coff coff).
It's funny how this annoys people who would easily wear Peaky Blinders, Breaking Bad or Sons of Anarchy shirts.

[dkrook]

White guy vigilante fever dream, I thought everyone knew this. Look how many respawns of the same concept do we get In media...Dirty Harry, Silent rage, Walking tall. Original Equalizer. Need I say more. White dudes hate the system.

[dkrook]

How many people using Punisher skulls actually know the comic character? The name and skull actually feel strikingly generic TBH.

Also, everyone is talking about conservatives and all but doesn't everyone sort of deep down wish "bad guys" would get their due if the justice system fails? It's a pretty standard thing really.

The pandora's box of societal ills!!! You're correct. People have no idea the amount of raw vengeance locked up in some brothas over how corrupt our government and society is.

[Bruce Wayne]

Also, everyone is talking about conservatives and all but doesn't everyone sort of deep down wish "bad guys" would get their due if the justice system fails? It's a pretty standard thing really.

Not really. Speaking personally if you spend all your life fearing that the system will be turned on you and that you, your family and your in-group will be declared an enemy when it's convinent then you simply don't have faith in any justice system and can only see concepts of "justice" and "law and order" and "right/wrong" as a structure for control and frankly just fantasies like superheroes and post-humans and homo superior.

[Huntsman Spider]

White guy vigilante fever dream, I thought everyone knew this. Look how many respawns of the same concept do we get In media...Dirty Harry, Silent rage, Walking tall. Original Equalizer. Need I say more. White dudes hate the system.

I would throw in the Punisher's literary predecessor and possible inspiration --- Mack Bolan, The Executioner.

The pandora's box of societal ills!!! You're correct. People have no idea the amount of raw vengeance locked up in some brothas over how corrupt our government and society is.

Not really. Speaking personally if you spend all your life fearing that the system will be turned on you and that you, your family and your in-group will be declared an enemy when it's convinent then you simply don't have faith in any justice system and can only see concepts of "justice" and "law and order" and "right/wrong" as a structure for control and frankly just fantasies like superheroes and post-humans and homo superior.

Points, though I would add that when Gerry Conway created the Punisher, it was as a villain for Spider-Man, and somewhat truer to how real-world lethal vigilantism would tend to go, he went after (and nearly killed) the wrong person after being convinced that he would be dishing out rightful justice to a scumbag who deserved to die by someone using him as a pawn for his own revenge scheme against Spider-Man. Furthermore, Conway went on record more recently describing the Punisher as initially an indictment of the justice system's failure to live up to its claims of being there to protect people, which made it even more troubling to him, among others, that so many tasked with bringing justice and enforcing the law would embrace him as an aspirational symbol, rather than a cautionary tale, a warning, or even a tragedy.

[InfamousBG]

To answer OP question....

Because people are stupid. That is the only answer.

If I got a big Trump gay pride flag made and drove around with it flying above my car I guarantee in a day the flag would be tore down. Do I do the same to the clowns that think the Punisher represents the cops? Nope. Let them look like clowns.

If what we are hearing is true that Frank will be going after dirty cops wearing his logo in the DD Born Again series then maybe it will piss those morons off and the flags will come down.

The Punisher does not represent the Police. The Punisher does not represent the military. The Punisher is Frank Castle. A guy that is a twisted mass murderer and I love him for it.

Also Frank will be back. Garth Ennis told me on Saturday to my face. New series coming May or June 2024. Probably the Max run I believe. So I am excited. Then we get the DD Born Again series. Frank will be fine. I am not worried.

The Nazis once stole a symbol and used it for hate. Look what happened to them.

[InfamousBG]

Frank's symbol came to represent something to these cops and soldiers, and it shouldn't have because Frank is a hot mess and a psychopath, but it's not the character they like so much as it's what they think the logo represents.

Boom this right here.