Anti-Heroes

[Ultimate Captain America]

I’m unable to resolve public safety with the likes of Galactus or the Absorbing Man tearing us up and blaming the FF or Thor for the damage. I think in a Marvel world you have to sustain damage instead of incarcerating superheroes, or you don’t get defense of the Earth. Nobody stops a Secret Invasion by the Skrulls accept superheroes, but if you blame the superheroes for damage to Washington DC afterwards it’s a slap in the face for saving Earth.

Sure, the Galactus card... you should read the coming of Galactus again. The FF were completely useless against him, Earth was saved because of the fortuitous interference of another giant alien.

And if there were no superheroes? If the security of the world was not trusted to a cabal of a few members? Good question, what can the human race even hope to do against a giant from outer space with weird strange powers? Answer: quite a lot. Never underestimate the power of human ingenuity.

[Agent Z]

When superheroes first appeared in the early 1960’s at Marvel it set the trend that the public appreciated their help and did not insist on the constitution. This lasted up until 2006 when the modern sensibilities suddenly found fault with superheroes but that quickly reversed back to old affections after the Earth was saved from a Skrull occupation by superheroes. You can have all your sensibilities when the world is at peace but when the sh## hits the fan, all rules go out the window.

People finding fault with superheroes is almost as old as Marvel itself.

[Oheao]

It depends on what kind of villain it is, if we're thinking about the real-world. Street-level heroes shouldn't be killers because then there are the implications of an extrajudicial group of people who are just killing people without due process, sometimes even with official or unofficial approval of the police/government, so it's basically just a sanctioned hit squad. As for cosmic/extreme level threats, I don't think it's really necessary to shed a tear if they kill something that has the power and is attempting to destroy the world or whatever.

[Cap808]

Sure, the Galactus card... you should read the coming of Galactus again. The FF were completely useless against him, Earth was saved because of the fortuitous interference of another giant alien.

And if there were no superheroes? If the security of the world was not trusted to a cabal of a few members? Good question, what can the human race even hope to do against a giant from outer space with weird strange powers? Answer: quite a lot. Never underestimate the power of human ingenuity.

On that note; has there ever been a storyline other than Stark and the Super Human Registration Act, where heroes tried to police themselves and/or their peers?

[Huntsman Spider]

On that note; has there ever been a storyline other than Stark and the Super Human Registration Act, where heroes tried to police themselves and/or their peers?

First that comes to mind is the version that occurred in the Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows timeline/universe, where the original Civil War was averted because Charles Xavier of the X-Men and the Avengers came together and established a framework for superhero self-policing that the government could (mostly) live with or manage. This came up during the two-part X-Men team-up arc where Xavier wanted to recruit Spider-Man (and Mary Jane)'s daughter Anna-May Parker/Spiderling as a student for the Xavier Institute, to hone her precognitive abilities, and around the same time, Magneto and his Brotherhood of (Evil) Mutants attacked the Institute, with a little help from a disillusioned Jubilee who had grown weary of trying to "earn" humanity's trust, respect, and acceptance. Not to mention that Cyclops disagreed with Xavier agreeing to the self-policing deal, fearing it would be used by anti-mutant elements within the government to further restrict, if not exploit, them for their own ends, which led to a rift between him and Xavier, as well as the dissolution of his relationship with Jean Grey, who after the (Dark) Phoenix situation trusted herself much less than he did.

[Cap808]

First that comes to mind is the version that occurred in the Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows timeline/universe, where the original Civil War was averted because Charles Xavier of the X-Men and the Avengers came together and established a framework for superhero self-policing that the government could (mostly) live with or manage. This came up during the two-part X-Men team-up arc where Xavier wanted to recruit Spider-Man (and Mary Jane)'s daughter Anna-May Parker/Spiderling as a student for the Xavier Institute, to hone her precognitive abilities, and around the same time, Magneto and his Brotherhood of (Evil) Mutants attacked the Institute, with a little help from a disillusioned Jubilee who had grown weary of trying to "earn" humanity's trust, respect, and acceptance. Not to mention that Cyclops disagreed with Xavier agreeing to the self-policing deal, fearing it would be used by anti-mutant elements within the government to further restrict, if not exploit, them for their own ends, which led to a rift between him and Xavier, as well as the dissolution of his relationship with Jean Grey, who after the (Dark) Phoenix situation trusted herself much less than he did.

Really? I'm sorry I missed that one. Sounds interesting, and somewhat promising with Xavier and the Avengers coming together with Spider-Man. I wonder if the Fantastic Four should have been consulted as well? This is bittersweet for me, though, as I tend to stand with Cyclops' leadership.

[Huntsman Spider]

Really? I'm sorry I missed that one. Sounds interesting, and somewhat promising with Xavier and the Avengers coming together with Spider-Man. I wonder if the Fantastic Four should have been consulted as well? This is bittersweet for me, though, as I tend to stand with Cyclops' leadership.

Yeah, the Fantastic Four probably should have been consulted on that situation as well, I would agree. It was mostly details shared as part of the backstory of the RYV universe/timeline that only came up because Xavier invited Spider-Man and Mary Jane/Spinneret to let their daughter Annie train with the X-Men so she could hone her developing precognitive abilities (presumed to be an evolution of her father's spider-sense, similar to the Spider-Man clone known as Kaine who had amplified spider-powers as a side effect of his unstable biology).

[Zero Hunter]

In the Krakoan Era alone, the X-Men have accepted Apocalypse, Exodus, Sabretooth, Lady Deathstrike and Mr. Sinister. Deathstrike has worked with anti-mutant racists and Sinister is a Nazi eugenicist.

Because all the X-Men are basically racists now. Mutants are all good no matter what evil they have done in the past and humans are beneath them. They live on their magic island ignoring all other international laws then act persecuted when lowly humans dare question their divine athority.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm sure this has been covered in other threads before, but with the new Kraven movie coming out, I got to thinking about how fast we as viewers, and even more importantly, the heroes in our favorite comics, accept former villains who turn over a new leaf. In real life, would we accept multiple offense murderers such as Magneto, Deadpool, Venom, and to a certain extent, the Punisher? I mean, I'm sure there most of our heroes have gone down this road at one time or another and justified their actions (or the writers have at least), and I'm all for redemption, but is there a point where someone cannot be forgiven?

Do groups like the Avengers and X-Men have to justify their questionable membership to the public?

Probably not and they'd still be divisive figures. We'd probably see them as similar to any real life controversial figures. But there isn't an exact one to one counterpart between a supervillian and real life. So it depends on the particular character.

For example, Magneto or Doctor Doom would be similar to the Taliban or Putin.

[marvelprince]

Actually, a very valid point. Say what you will about the X-Men and their tendency to accept formerly villainous mutants into their ranks on the basis of mutant solidarity and the raw deal "good" and "bad" mutants alike have gotten from a human society apparently run by increasingly genocidal bigots, but I don't recall anything quite on the level of the Avengers accepting Red Hulk after he participated in an attempted coup on the United States led by the Intelligencia, a bunch of underrated and overlooked mad scientist villains who got together and made their own Hulk and She-Hulk with a combination of gamma and cosmic radiation.

In Red Hulks case he was incarcerated and released into Steve Rogers custody initially so you can look at that like a work release program. Personally I don’t really matter villains becoming heroes, I like redemption , but it depends on the hero. Wolverine and Deadpool are great examples. I love these guys, but they should never be on any Avengers team. Not only due to the body counts but cause of the lack of remorse and continued bloodshed. And then you gotta factor the history. I can accept say a Hawkeye who was only a thief for a short of time before he turned omit around, when you then have your Punishers and Harley Quinn’s I gotta draw the line.

[Huntsman Spider]

In Red Hulks case he was incarcerated and released into Steve Rogers custody initially so you can look at that like a work release program. Personally I don’t really matter villains becoming heroes, I like redemption , but it depends on the hero. Wolverine and Deadpool are great examples. I love these guys, but they should never be on any Avengers team. Not only due to the body counts but cause of the lack of remorse and continued bloodshed. And then you gotta factor the history. I can accept say a Hawkeye who was only a thief for a short of time before he turned omit around, when you then have your Punishers and Harley Quinn’s I gotta draw the line.

Fair enough on that front.

[ARkadelphia]

I don’t know too much about anti-heroes, but I do know that Peter Parker’s Aunty May will always be a hero to him.

[Cap808]

I don’t know too much about anti-heroes, but I do know that Peter Parker’s Aunty May will always be a hero to him.

LOL...it took me two reads of your post to get it. Good job! Now, I have to go back to my car and fill up the Antifreeze.

[Ultimate Captain America]

On that note; has there ever been a storyline other than Stark and the Super Human Registration Act, where heroes tried to police themselves and/or their peers?

The whole Ultimate universe was built around that idea. SHIELD is out there always watching all superhuman activity, heroes and villains alike, and ready to jump into the action if the need arises. It is not a police dictatorship kind of setting, Spider-Man and the X-Men are still allowed to do their thing as long as they stay within acceptable limits, but always knowing that if they break things badly or go the Punisher route, SHIELD is out there watching and ready to act.

[Cap808]

The whole Ultimate universe was built around that idea. SHIELD is out there always watching all superhuman activity, heroes and villains alike, and ready to jump into the action if the need arises. It is not a police dictatorship kind of setting, Spider-Man and the X-Men are still allowed to do their thing as long as they stay within acceptable limits, but always knowing that if they break things badly or go the Punisher route, SHIELD is out there watching and ready to act.

Good point. I remember Ultimate Thor not being happy with a lot of things Fury did as a result.